Greedy Goblin

Tuesday, September 6, 2011

Legendary fail

Once upon a time there was a guild, game is not over. World #171, 6/7HM. It is a Hungarian guild as you can see from the recruitment text on WoWprogress, and their sad story was published first on a Hungarian WoW site.

This guild, like many other were happily collected eternal embers to get the legendary staff. Luck shined upon them as many drops fell to the hand of the player the loot council decided to be the bearer of this weapon, and finally they got their reward, among the first ones in the World.

The Mylune-romantic story here ends, because the staff-bearer instantly transferred to the Method, saying goodbye to his friends with the following - legendary - words: "the leadership sucked for months bai", ("szar a vezetes honapok ota n acsa").

What can we learn from this story? At first, never give anything of value to someone with "happy", "lol", "pwn" and such in his name. Even if he can keep attendance and stay out of the fire, he will make some weird drama sooner or later. Something tells me that the Method will learn this the hard way and this isn't the last time when we can delight on the story of Happyjojj.

The more important is that you own only what you own. What is owned by other person is not yours, no matter how complicated social system you built to delude yourself into it. "Friendship", "solidarity", "responsibility" are all sounding good and people really mean them as long as it means "someone should behave responsibly towards me". As soon as it means "I should be responsible with others", they will instantly find loopholes and cross you over. The only exception are the "fun ppl" who really mean this crap, but they never have anything of value, exactly because of that.

If something is created in a group effort that can't be split into parts and distributed, the one receiving it must pay the other ones. So when - not "if" - he goes his merry way, he takes away nothing that is not his. There are eternal embers in the backpack of people who are no longer with my guild, despite they gained the embers in our raids. So? They paid for it.

While years of seeing socials banging their heads to the wall made me cynical, I haven't given up hope: maybe this event will teach guilds that the only reliable loot distribution system is gold bid. In every other case, someone will feel betrayed very soon.

PS: soon another bunch of people will learn that what is not theirs is not theirs, no matter how fondly they think about it.


Leeho said...

For a raider in a hc guild gold worths exactly nothing. Same goes for the guild itself. Loot usually is not sold not because people don't want others to pay, but because they have no use of gold. You can't buy a legendary, or even a 1\25 part of it. Everyone can farm or get from AH his gold for consumables, repairs, crafted gear, etc. it's just a little time. But if someone gets off with a legendary weapon, GM can't buy with his gold a new one to toss it to another player. Same with any other loot. That just doesn't work.

Sinshroud said...

That really sucks for them, though it's not the first time that this has happened.

I know my guild lost 2 thunderfuries pre-bc in this manner, the one was even an officer and co-raid leader (though he just quit wow, didn't leave).

You would have thought that Method being as public a guild as they are, would want to avoid all related drama at any cost. Anyone with even the slight hint of drama when applying should be denied access.

I guess it's their real life goblineering sponsorship attitudes taking over then.

Eaten by a Grue said...


It is true that gold cannot be used to buy another legendary, but it cannot be said that gold is worth nothing. So if a raider in a HC guild thinks this, he is incorrect.

Gold can be used to buy epic items and other things of value. Being that we do not have the ability to assign value to a legendary perfectly, in that there is no currency that can actually be used to buy one, the next best thing is to use gold, which can at least be used to buy other things of value.

Ultimately, it is better if the guy absconding with the legendary at least had to pay his teammates 500K or whatever is fair for this privilege, than having paid nothing.

Rodos said...

Leeho is correct that gold as such is a poor measure of value for a dedicated raider (or any number of other types of player who have enough to cover repairs and no desire to buy other things). However it is the best substitute for the only true currency of MMO, which is time (just like energy is the only truly fundamental currency in the real world).

I think the guild rep system was an attempt by Blizzard to add a time cost to guild switching, but it fails because there is not enough tied to guild rep and it caps quickly. The person with the Legendary is no more invested than any other player, and the players left behind are in no way compensated by the one who left.

Dalrian said...

As mentioned by others as well, gold is basically useless for an HC raider. The third post mentions that gold is needed for epics etc, but a decent HC raider will haver that money anyway.
After all, what is 20k? Maybe a week of work (for some maybe even less).

You could even argue that currently the gold you gain from those legendaries is useless as well. You already have thousands of gold, so wouldn't you prefer your guild to have a few legendary weapons rather than those few pennies?

Also, I'd like to comment on the name part as well. Sure, you can say that people with names like those often cause trouble, but I'm not sure if that's entirely true.

If someone is called Arthasdklol, then yes, he will be a terrible player and you will want to avoid him. However, names with "lol" or "qt" in it are extremely normal these days and the average PvP guild is full of it, usually at ratings of 2.7k+.

They are not bad players and they don't cause drama unless they can get into a higher place, like this Happyjojj did as well.

He would never drop Method like that and get back to Raggy, but if Paragon would offer him a spot (I know, language barrier, but let's ignore that) he would most likely do the same thing again.

It's just like real life, where you try to advance in your job at the cost of others. Not everyone does it, but anyone who does is definitely not a social. They are not doing it to make friends, so to say.

Anonymous said...

Think of a legendary as a reward for work done for the guild in the past.

It's yours for all the hard work you did; if you leave it's sad for the guild but it's your choice.

Thinking of a legendary as guild property is a way to invite disappointment, but selling legendaries for gold is equally silly. Like others have said, you only need so much gold in the game; and besides, giving alegendary to whoever farms most gold vs. whoever is keeping the website up to date / writes up raid tactics on the guild forums / does the raid leading / etc. would be idiotic.

chewy said...

You're suggestion that gold is a fair compensation is merely an alternative delusion similar to prenuptial agreements penned by the rich and famous.

Some people want loyalty and solidarity in exchange for their time, you want gold. I agree that gold is more transferable but if you die before you get to spend your gold what real value was it ?

There is no real compensation, we must judge how we want to spend our own time and what value we derive at that moment because the future is unpredictable.

Ry said...

The problem with gold bid is that the marginal utility of gold drops off very sharply past a certain point, just as it does IRL with cash. How, then, would one run a guild full of goblins, who all have enough gold that gold bids become almost meaningless and/or cumbersome to implement?

Anonymous said...

they gave it to a druid...biggest mistake right there

Coralina said...

Whilst I have seen good performances from people with non-RP names I think Gevlon is absolutely 100% correct in what he says. I have never seen a person with a “lol-name” that has not caused some kind of drama. Whether it be making a habit of asking to leave in the middle of raid (usually after this gear piece didn’t drop) because “my relative is in hospital”, causing drama over loot or raid team selection, arguing with other players or leaving the guild immediately after looting a highly sought after item you can guarantee these people are trouble.

Gevlons gold for gear method is also the only thing that would ever tempt me out of my raid-retirement and get me running again.

I point blank refuse to run with any kind of DKP/EP system (I’d even prefer /roll) as I have no intention of running for weeks with absolutely no reward and having to pass on loot to the officers sucky girlfriend who does half my healing output only to find that once I have gathered enough “points” that the guild disbands or that the key players who had been gathering all the loot jump ship to another guild. My hard earned virtual currency then expires in a cloud of smoke! That happened to me three times in a row at the start of ICC and was the final straw that made me quit.

The reality is that these virtual player created currencies (DKP/EP etc) have absolutely no value. I won’t therefore raid for them as I know they can be destroyed in the blink of an eye at the whim of the GM’s/officers etc. When joining such a guild you are effectively being asked to invest a huge amount of resource up front with absolutely no guarantee that you will get a penny back.

Would you give a random player 10,000 gold and trust him to give it back a month later? Of course not! Yet players seem happy to do that with the equivalent value in time/flasks/repair bills when raiding for a worthless currency that relies on trust in stranger.

Gold in my bag on the other hand is something tangible that once given to me cannot be taken from me except by inflation. It doesn’t matter if the guild disbands or if highly rewarded players leave, I’d still have my reward.

The only issue I have is that with gold buying and botting being rife I could easily see those that cheat the system gaining an unfair advantage. Surely just the suspicion that someone is acquiring gold through unethical means can cause drama when bidding for items? We all know the guy who only ever logs on for raids, never seems to spend time in the AH yet has both the M&S mounts as well as being decked out in expensive BOE’s…. Yeah sure some are legit but we know a large number of people are cheating the system.

Jumina said...

We had people without "lol" in their names and they left our guild after they completed legendary axe in wotlk.
The gold has no value for the guild in this case. Only the "dps" has. This has no solution.

Mithfin said...

Actually, hungarian and finnish are both finno-ugric languages, so barrier might not be that much of a problem. :)

Levin said...

if the acquisition of a legendary item is a guild effort, wouldnt it be a good system if such items were bound to the guild? if the "owner" leaves the guild, kicked or is inactive for a certain amount of time, the item goes to another character of the guild's choosing?

i know this cannot be done atm. just throwing ideas.

Péter Zoltán said...

Gold bid is useless for cases like this. That won't keep the legendary nor its owner in the guild and you can't buy legendaries, firstkills nor top dps players for gold.

Anonymous said...

Many of you behave like legendary drops are the only drops in the raid.

Actually I as guild master don't think that getting legendary is a guild effort. Only small part of it really is. Ember drops are on top of normal loot drops not instead. If no legendary exists there nothing would change. Legendary q than requires personal effort in doing solo parts of quest as well as some money investment.

Only guild investment is special kill of the boses to infuse which is fun on it's own in my opinion.

I'm caster spec and I gave priority to another guild member for embers.

Caramael said...

These kind of items should be treated as a guild's fixed assets. It's stupid to allow a person to walk away with things which cannot be converted into cash.

Come to think of it, maybe it would even be a good idea to turn all epic+ gear into guild assets. It would make it a lot easier for guilds to replace people by judging their skills, and would almost completely remove the sunk cost argument from the decision. It would also be a huge competitive advantage when looking for players "full T11+ sets for those who pass our trial".

Then if the person using the equipment decides to leave the guild, it will automatically be returned to the guild's inventory.

Anonymous said...


That is a crazy good idea! Guild works to unlock items, and recruit based on skill. Man all the lolkids would jump ship from whatever game did that as they would have no where to go, calling the game "too serious and not fun for me." LOL!

Okrane S. said...

I am sick and tired of people commenting that gold is worthless.

Get it in your head: Gold is worth Time!

Mats for consumables, crafted epic items, BOEs, all these can be bought by any player for the right amount and will greatly reduce the time needed for the character to farm materials or grind instances. It reduced the time it takes for a char to be fully operational.

Even when you are fully equipped in BiS items, there are still uses for gold, be it in repairs and consumables as well as alts.

Also keep in mind that when the next content patch hits the cycle starts all over again with money needed to pour into BoE and crafted stuff.

So no, gold is not useless.

Anonymous said...

Gold is worthless. However, GETTING it is not, and WILLING to spend it on gear (legendary) is not. For example, if the guild's firstlegendary would cost you 200k altogether, would you buy it? Second and others maybe 150k then 100k. I totally agree with Gevlon on this. If you pay the 200k you can do whatever you want with it. When I joined into this game my first question was exactly this: Why on earth people "boost" their Guild Master (usually gms and officers gets these first, which is understandable in a normal guild, but in a professional era, - that is required to get the legendary - is beyond me), why are people boost others especially for free? Why people think the "friendship" they make in this game is real? Why people use wow to socialize?

Anonymous said...

/roll works great. Some of my ex-guildies did a lot of HC farming to get Chaos Orbs. They gave them to 1 person who was a crafter, for guild crafting. He left guild to remake his old guild which he was GM of before he joined this guild. My ex-guildies made a forum suggestion to not punish this person, but to petition to make items like these "guildbound." Although /roll, and spreading the orbs around is a workaround I otherwise like the idea for items like these. For legendary not since it is a very personal achievement. If you'd use it on soulbound gear then people have DEd/sold old gear and are left naked, or someone can be grieved out of the guild by such a system.

In trade PuGs on my realm we simply use /roll on these embers. Everyone who is on the quest (role does not matter) is allowed to /roll and highest roll wins. Never seen any drama because of it. A joke when only 2 healers roll with 2 casters not: "At least the healers care for the eternal embers." Or people who /roll while they're not even on the quest. That happened in start of FL quite a bit.

When someone receives loot due to EPGP or DKP this is due to _past_ effort. This effort has been paid by showing up on time on the raid, and by behaving (if you suck you lose EP/DKP), and by progressing (kill on progress gives X times more EP), and performing. If guild we discuss was using EPGP/DKP instead of loot council then the person in question either gathered up a lot of EP/DKP or he did not bid on many other items. Either way, he pulled his weight. On top of that remember the whole raid got the pet and the guild got the achievement.

If you joined a guild using EPGP/DKP, GMs GF did half of your healing, and it disbanded before you got points then it is you who sucked. You're not only the one who joins a bad, unstable guild, you're also the one who stays when you notice pathetic nepotism like that!

Anonymous said...

I must say I am not surprised nor shocked by that player, in my guild, I am giving the embers to whoever wants them, we dont even roll for them, since they are essencialy worthless for everyone, the only exception was our warlock that started to talk about the legendary about 3 weeks after we started to raid in cata, even if he left the guild, my sense of loss would not be about gear that will be replaced in a couple of months anyway, the loss would be of a very funny and decent person, not to mention one of my most commited raiders, and I can assure that no amount of gold will even get close to compensating for that.

I have about 300KG split in about 5 85 chars and quite honestly I have no use for it, since I dont buy BoE's and have all proffs covered and if I ever needed more gold, a week of JC (logging every 12h to craft sold stock and repost)will net me between 10K to 15K gold and that is without the need to get creative and doing stuff to DE or xmuting carnelians to rubies, or starting to get into the enchanting market, wich quite honestly I cant be arsed.

TL:DR-- Legendary items are worth the exact same as purples, lament the loss of the player if he was a decent person, if not there are lots of good players out there to replace.
Gold is essentialy worthless to enjoy this game, and that is what we all should aim, enjoyment, not some yellow number on the bottom of the bags.

Anonymous said...

Giving Legendarys to "the guild" is even worse than giving it to a player.
Who is "the guild"? I can see guildmasters (who might never have participated in any guild raids at all) kicking every member and walking away with five legendaries instead of just one. Guildbound items can easily be sold!

Go back and read Gevlons Post about things that dont belong to you.

Eaten by a Grue said...

To all the "gold is worthless people", then just bid with real currency. Would that work better?

Eaten by a Grue said...


Blizzard would never implement your bind-to-guild epic equipment idea, as it would trivialize the need to gear up. This is why gear binds after you don it or pick it up.

Michael said...

Problem with the gold bid system is that gold is useless for most everyone in a moderately progressed or better guild. Flasks, feasts, enchants, gems, repairs, get paid for by selling boe's to non-raiders. The only use for gold is to buy cosmetic stuff, like non-combat pets. You can fake up a system where people have to buy raid drops, but then the value of your gold is non-transferable. You have to stick with that gold-bid guild in order for it to have any worth.

There is no amount of gold someone could pay me to trade for even a heroic raid drop, let alone a legendary.

spinksville said...

I dunno when it will ever be useful to know the Hungarian for 'leadership was bad for months bai' but I have to try to use that somewhere now.

The thing with legendary weapons is that they have traditionally been a social challenge as well as a raiding one. Is your raid capable of picking someone trustworthy to hold the legendary? And in this case, the raid group failed.

Gevlon said...

Gold is maybe next to useless, but DKP is TOTALLY useless, and "loot council" doesn't even pretend to give you anything useful if they choose to give the loot to someone else

Wilson said...

"In every other case, someone will feel betrayed very soon."

A year ago (Sept 15) you wrote this, after one of your guild members left shortly after killing Arthas:
"Many people expressed their anger over his leaving, after all we gave them KS title and that's how he thank for it?!"

If people in your guild get pissed over someone leaving with just a mere title (which everyone in the raid gets), I think it's fair to assume someone would be pissed as fucking hell if someone left as soon as they got a legendary weapon. The evidence says that gdkp in fact does nothing to prevent some people from feeling betrayed.

Ray said...

I visualize myself as another caster in that guild. What loss that i suffer if the person who get the legendary leave instead stay? I mean, my dps will be the same regardless he stay or not. So the only damage is my progression will be slowed.

Now how much the legendary staff effecting my raid progression? Say the legendary increase dps 100%. Assuming 10 man raid with 2 tank, 3 healer, 5 dps, and 2 tank = 1 dps, then the legendary increase raid damage from 6x to 7x (about 16%). In 25 man, the number even smaller.

The legendary indeed make the next progression easier, but it is not enough to decide the outcome. I mean if you can clear whole instance in current patch without it, i'm sure you can clear the next patch without it.

Remember, although your guildie get the legendary, it is not yours. You may debate who will get legendary before, but once it become someone's item, it is not yours.

IRL, even football team of my country become the world cup champion, the title is not mine. I'm just the guy who watch them play in television.

Lothildin said...

It could work with bind on guild. Or whatever you want to call it.
As long as you must use it in the same guild. Meaning, if you delete the guild and create another one, the equipment wont work.
And it doesnt make gearing meaningless, because the Raid Leader would decide wich person to use it depeding on the fight. So, even if the person uses the gear for a particular fight, he has to gear for fights where he wont be using it.

Coralina said...

@Anonymous (14:00)

What difference does it make if the guy with more DKP turned up for lots of previous raids?

I couldn't care less. I owe him nothing. What about all the previous raids I did with my last guild before it disbanded? What about all the raids I did in TBC? Does the guy owe me something for that?

I only care about how he performs on that particular night.

I assume with Gevlons gold system that if you turn up every night you get more gold than a guy who doesn't. If something you need doesn't drop you get your share of the gold from the people that did receive something?

So either way you are rewarded for previous raids with that gold and of course if VP capped you still earned a set of bracers to sell on the AH. That is your reward and the slate is wiped clean for the next evening.

Sorry but you sound like an lolsocial to me. Only socials believe they owe something due to a bond of some kind. But we are talking about raiding and not social guilds. I don't owe the guy a damn thing and he doesn't owe me either as he can take the loot and leave.

Under the current points system adopted by guilds all that guy has is a worthless "IOU" written on the back of a fag packet. I don't recognise his IOU and in the past mine wasn't recognised when guilds disbanded.

If someone steals my gold I can write to Blizzard and get it back. Hell if I get ninja'd in a pug raid and the RL stated rules in /raid I can get Blizz to take action against him.

Blizzard don't however recognise the IOU written on the back of a fag packet. When the guild leadership said "ROFL screw you guys we are realm transferring" I couldn't raise a ticket and get my virtual raid currency back.

DKP etc is completely worthless. Think of DKP as being the equivalent of the paper currencies used by many bankrupt western countries at the moment where as gold is the equivalent of real gold.

The former just isn't backed by anything. It can be devalued and your wealth stolen on a whim.

Anonymous said...

@Eaten by a Grue
"Ultimately, it is better if the guy absconding with the legendary at least had to pay his teammates 500K or whatever is fair"

What does "fair" have to do with anything? The price paid for the staff will be driven by the pathetically small marketplace consisting of dps casters in the raid. If there is only one such individual then the price will be the minimum bid, which is a purely artificial number (unless hunters and fury warriors are allowed to bid to drive up the price, but then you risk Embers being wasted). This is unlikely in a 25-man raid, but quite possible in a 10-man, in which case the lucky warlock or whatever ends up buying the staff for a fraction of what is "fair".

Campitor said...

I don't understand the anger directed towards people who raid, get geared, then leave. In order to get geared you need to raid so you are putting forth the needed effort to get the upgrades you desire/need. It doesn't matter if that person only raids once per week or 7 days per week. He put forth the effort on that particular day and was available to roll/get/dkp/buy the item. Raiding is a group effort with no contract other than the verbal agreements between individuals which is worth diddly since it's not protected by any Blizzard TOS or laws regarding virtual goods (this may change one day). So when you raid with 24/9 other people take it for what it's worth: a loosely collected effort bound by the lightest and most arbitrary of social compacts that has zero enforcement.

Shaan said...

the misunderstanding here is that while some people see them "the social way" in these hardcore guilds, most consider legendaries to be only infatuated loots, and as such, only rewards for veterans with high attendance.

and loot is only a way to prepare for the next raid. where that legendary won't make any difference.

as a guild, nobody lost or gained anything in this. as individuals, they only lost something they did not have anyway, so why bother ?
what's bothering them is that they lost one of their (probably) best and most present players. the actual orange bundle of pixels has no meaning.

Method and other high-end guilds recruit these players because they know such items are only attributed to players with the qualities to be in their roster. they do not care about "drama", because for them there is no drama.

first kill titles are worth a lot more than legendaries, because once it's done you can't get it anymore.

Brent said...

Not once, but twice, we've had the person on the questline gain 25 fragments, then gquit/leave game. We've only just completed our third person through it and finally stepped to the next collection part of the chain.

WTB hand reaching through screen technology.

Russelcrowex said...

Having happy in your name doesn't neccesarily mean that you are retarded.

One of the greatest rogues of all time (as in; skilled when everybody was shit and keyboardturned@vanilla and TBC) was named Happyminti :- )

this guy;

more players should be like him.

Regards, Russelcrowex.

(P.S, some people but x/q/qt/lol in the end of their nick because it's already taken or because it's an alt and they want to be recognized, whilst not using retarded aoei letters, but generally, you are correct.)

Anonymous said...

"I visualize myself as another caster in that guild. What loss that i suffer if the person who get the legendary leave instead stay? I mean, my dps will be the same regardless he stay or not. So the only damage is my progression will be slowed."

It depends on his replacement (is he a better player? how well geared is? is he replacing the 5th boomkin as the sole demo lock?), and progression (if you already are 7/7 HC this won't hamper your progression on short term). While we can safely say his replacement does not have legendary either your DPS is higher than if he was not in guild, or he contributed more to raids, or a combination of that. He wasn't able to use his DKP or equiv on other caster items or loot council gave items to others (e.g. you) since this person in question would get legendary. It is the same as GDKP (but on a longer term): he pulled his weight and earned the legendary. Then, he decided to leave. We don't know the exact context of what happened during this drama, but the drama was not necessary: people change ships all the time. On long term (end 4.2, 4.3, ...) there will be more than 1 person with legendary in the top raiding guilds.

If loot council and EPGP/DKP were used correct then he paid what the item was worth whereas others have bought/received of equal worth. In short, the drama stems from people who don't understand DKP/EPGP or even loot council (who can use such tools behind the screens, and in practice are a human-biased DKP/EPGP). Yes, even some people who use such a loot system may not fully understand it. Its all about _past_ effort; not future effort. The loot _can_ be distributed in such a way that future effort is taken into account but you cannot be sure on who takes place in such which is why it _should_ not be taken into account. In a hardcore raiding guild you can assume certain players stay in guild, but if your leadership sucks they may want to leave. Guild leadership opted to use this loot system, and you opted to join raid with master loot enabled. You opted to join the guild and read the guild rules, including the loot rules. By the way, Blizzard made this legendary in such a way that the people who helped him getting the legendary (and achievement) got the achievement as guild, personal, and a pet. So, they also got a reward.

Anonymous said...

"What difference does it make if the guy with more DKP turned up for lots of previous raids?

I couldn't care less. I owe him nothing. What about all the previous raids I did with my last guild before it disbanded? What about all the raids I did in TBC? Does the guy owe me something for that?"

The difference between you (a fresh recruit) and an oldtimer (who did 4.0 HC raiding every week) is a lot for the _guild_. You don't understand how top guilds work, do you? You play a part in them; it is not centered around YOU! You have to build up a reputation within the top guild. In order to join the top guild, you need to build up credit e.g. by performing in the content. If you just joined you have a long career ahead of you, but once you are in that top guild you won't want to leave. Its that awesome. If you do, you plan it ahead like this guy did tho you'll have to start over somewhere else. Your personal resume goes with your character, but the one within your guild you'll have to start from scratch again.

In your case the raids you did with your guild mean nothing in guild context (and therefore EPGP/DKP) if your guild disbanded. You should not join such an unstable guild, or spend your points earlier. Such is the twist: do you spend a lot, or do you save up? The choice is yours. I already explained this to you and it also applies to your example of realm transfer, but you clearly don't like to hear that. Ironic you call me a lolsocial yet it appears it is you who is in these lolsocial guilds. You screwed up by joining 3 times a guild using DKP and they disbanded and you blame the system instead of blaming yourself for joining such an unstable guild, or joining a guild with a loot system you don't agree with. Or, at the moment you saw the GF of the GM doing half your healing your alarm bells should've gone off. As for the raids you did in TBC? You can write those on your resume when applying for a guild but those points would've all decayed in EPGP. This is a mechanism to prevent abuse of somone farming EP and then not showing up for years.

GDKP has major disadvantages, but I think it serves Gevlon's guild (and many other casual guilds) well since there is no fixed attendance, no attendance policy, people come and go. However there is no correlation between a rich player and a good player yet the rich are able to buy any gear they want to; they get it first. Depending on raid composition some items go for a lot of gold whereas others go for near nothing. Meanwhile, in the real world, raiders are not rich; they spend more gold than PvP players, and I don't know anyone who is into hardcore raiding and making a lot of gold; they don't have to except in start of new patch (but then making gold is easy). BoE and crafted are not required for hardcore raiding: the BoE drops from FL barely replace the ilvl 372 hardcore raiders already had. They clear 7/7 normal and then are into HC raiding clearing whatever is left as normal at end of raid lockout. In no time they are full ilvl 378/391. BoE ilvl 365/378? They probably sell those on AH instead. Or they go to raider alts (but you are not allowed to have 40 of those). Consumables are even taken care of in hardcore guilds.

Anonymous said...

"DKP etc is completely worthless. Think of DKP as being the equivalent of the paper currencies used by many bankrupt western countries at the moment where as gold is the equivalent of real gold."

Its worse than that IRL: nowadays, it isn't even paper anymore, it is all electronic digits. However, as long as most wealthy people believe in the system it will survive. As soon as a few wealthy people withdraw from their banks, the system will crash. But since that means they lose all their wealth (and power) over those who are poor it won't happen. The smart and wealthy have investments in items which would retain value during a crash, or get it back after the crash.

On a grander perspective if Blizzard decides to shut down WoW your gold is worthless too. In my opinion more worthless than your achievements (unless your most notable one is "exploring Feralas" and "The Kingslayer."). If memory serves me right we got 3 more expansions coming and then its finito. We may as well not play the game. Yet we do. Go figure.

Karot said...

I definitely think that people should pay gold to get their legendaries pieced together. There are far too many instances like this, where as soon as someone gets what they want from the guild or raid group, they bolt for greener pastures so fast that they become a purple blur. Most guilds will pick a player that's proven to be loyal and they know will stick around for a while, but often they still get burned. A lot of raiders quit or go on hiatus as soon as they get their legendary or get all BiS, so it's no longer benefiting the guild, it's all just collecting dust on an unused character. I hope this is a lesson for all those other guilds out there that think they won't get burned like this one. The truth is, it could happen to anyone, so you should at least make sure the rest of the group gets well compensated.