Greedy Goblin

Saturday, July 30, 2011

Looking for Raid and Battleground leader

I lead most of the raids and rated battlegrounds in the guild. My original idea of volunteer leaders did not work, simply because it's a work and no one would do that without compensation. However there is a simple, non-hierarchical, goblinish way to handle it: leader fee. So if you are good at leading or want to try yourself out, now is the time!

The salary is paid by those who you lead. If they don't like your lead, they can vote with their feet. The payment is 1500G/hour on the top of your share of the loot. This way I can finally diversify the raid leading. It is especially important in rated BGs, as I can't assign enough time for that. In the first times I'll pay the leader, when he proven himself, the raid/BG will.

Of course the jobs are open to people already in the guild.

The usual funny situation where we have to cancel raid because of lack of damage dealers is back. So if you want to raid as DD, don't stand in the fire and do more than the tank, read the rules and come! We have lot of applicants. Too bad that most of them are like cecilhunter:

12 comments:

Anonymous said...

It will be interesting to see how this works. Will many people find the leader inside themselves and try to get a group going just to grab the gold? Will others want to pay for a leader?

I'll be leading some rated BG's. Hopefully there is enough interest in my ideas and leading style.

Yuliya

Xaxziminrax II said...

"Your name is meaningless. Mine has a meaning therefore it isnt stupid."

This is a fascinating deduction! It has blown me away. I always thought meaning came from what something IS. Glotan meant nothing before, now it has race/class, guild, gold, kills, gear, etc, therefore Glotan means those things together. On the other hand, "Cecilhunter" has laziness, sense of entitlement, therefore it now means M&S. But apparently he has it backwards, thinking the name makes poor quality into high quality, despite nothing supporting it. I wonder then if I start calling my monitor "52 inch HD plasma screen" will it become one?

nightgerbil said...

Gevlon the reason no other raid leader has emerged has more to do with people not joining raids you arent running. I have seen people struggle to form raids and the influence you have on the guild is such that when you join someone elses raid then leave, instead of "lf healer for xyz" in gchat, the raid disbands as everyone else follows you.

If you want other leaders to emerge, well they are trying! the answer isnt to try to bribe the leaders the way you suggest as that will deter people more its to bribe the raiders to go with people who are not you.

I am fast coming to the conclusion your project has traveled its course and proven only that your popularity can attract a largeish pool of skilled players to play for/with you.

Andy said...

Wow, Cecilhunter is almost too amazing to be true.

Besides, isn't your character called 'Glotan', not 'Gloatan'?

Inno said...

It would be nice to have players autobanned for a week every time they typed out l2p noob or some such. It also looks to me as it Cecilhunter is possibly violating the blizz naming convention but I suspect they only really care about names if they're racist or sexual in nature.

Okrane S. said...

Well, this debate has surely come up in the past, but personally I feel that your lacking of damage dealers and leaders in raids is a result of being on a low population realm.

If your guild is already successful enough to support your claims, immagine how it would be on a higher populated realm where you would have more people to choose from directly.

I am sure many players (me included) would like to join your guild but will not churn out the cash to Blizzard (wow is currently disapointing) for the character transfer (and all the alt characters they might play) to a realm where the only group content must be provided by the guild.

I feel that an asocial guild would function much better on larger realms as it can very easily become an extremely interactive community where leaders can emerge.

Right now the most part of your guild (if I am not mistaken) is formed by your readers and whatever mature players were on that forsaken realm in the first place.

So I would say, you need better in-game publicity.

Coralina said...

Thought I'd make a point here about the naming rules in your guild.

I suppose if you had a DK want to join and his name was Arthasspvp he would be turned away?

Just did a random ZG and got grouped with this guy:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/703/pvpr.jpg/

That was after the final boss went down and he didn't fail on any mechanics!


Thought his performance is an interesting comparison with that of your guildies in the famous no-gem incident!

Pheredhel said...

@nightgerbil:

there might actually be a good way to solve this:

Gevlon should not lead raids (for some time)
Maybe gevlon should even cease to enforce the rules (de facto becoming a standard member of his guild, and not exercise any of the powers he has. Both would force others to to fill that woid (or the guild fails).
Right now there is little need for anyone to to try to take that responsibility. It's not worth that bit of gold.

Another way would be for Gevlon to increase his prices so they start to mean something to the others. "Gevlon as raidleader: 10k? 20k? gold). Suddenly there is a market for cheaper, maybe not as skilled raid leaders.

While leader gold is a motivation, it seems to be way to low to spark any competition (150g per person is pretty much nothing at all).
If it starts to eat most of the pool, then people might settle for less, maybe risk wiping a few more times...)

People should not only a binary choice (pay 1500 or leave if it's not worth that) but something like "1500g leader" "10kg leader" and so on..

chewy said...

"My original idea of volunteer leaders did not work, simply because it's a work and no one would do that without compensation."

The implication is that people only work for compensation which simply isn't true. A lot of people may have to work for only compensation because the luxury of work that provides satisfaction is not available to them. But where it is available it's a much stronger motivation.

People are motivated by excellence, self improvement, glory and so forth. You don't seem to be motivated by gold so why do you imagine that it's anyone else's motivation ?

Read some books on great leaders and work out how they motivated people, you'll find it's not just that they paid more.

Zlatko said...

Not sure if it adds much to discussion, but I thought I'd share an anecdote from when i was in university (not very long ago)

I studied auditing but we had a lot of subjects that were held together with the business administration students. This particular one was business strategy 2 or 3 or something of the sort. I'm not sure how we came upon the topic, but the teacher was talking about employees etc. I do not know what sparked him to ask, but I think it was that we were very shy when answering his questions that class, or maybe we just answered wrong.

His first question was "How many of you want to earn above (some slightly above average figure) per year?"
Nearly everyone raised their hand.

His second question was "How many of you want to have personell responsiblity (not sure how to translate this, but basically it means having people under you that you need to lead, but also administer)
Nearly noone raised their hand.

Like I said, this doesn't really help much in the discussion as it only says that almost noone wants to lead. It doesn't say anything about why they don't want to. Maybe they (or should I say we, as I'm a social as well) are afraid of being judged by our fellow men. There is something that makes us think that failing as a leader is 10x worse than failing at some menial task. Whether that something is social or just the truth, I don't know. I mean if you mess up the consequences are usually larger as a leader. But I'm not sure that accounts for the strong dislike of the responsibility of leading by itself.

Maybe the solution is somehow to realise that noone will punish you for failing as a leader (not any more than failing at anything else), and even if they do, the criticism should not be taken to heart cause it's probably a social thing. But that's much easier to say than to actually do.

Anonymous said...

"I am sure many players (me included) would like to join your guild but will not churn out the cash to Blizzard (wow is currently disapointing) for the character transfer (and all the alt characters they might play)"

You can have max 1 alt in guild. Pick your main and alt wisely. Especially also keep in mind professions. How they interact.

I did shell out 20 EUR (2x). It was the best 20 EUR I spend in that month.

The realm is bad no words can describe that; the guild makes up for it. If you are already on a bad realm the choice is easy. If you can spend the 20 EUR (and be goblinish with AH differences) it can be good experiment to dabble into the guild. Or level a new character if 20 EUR is worth more than your precious time.

"Thought his performance is an interesting comparison with that of your guildies in the famous no-gem incident!"

You are either a troll, clueless, or both.

We cannot compare the meters of 2 fights you totally don't have any log about! Neither can you! You don't know who provided what buff, what rotations were used, what gear. What is this anyway? Total DPS? You don't provide such. What is compared?

I have seen Adanedar (the ele shaman) in a dungeon only once and his DPS was 16k+. I have no other reference except a DPS meter some random person linked.

No meter [2] will show whether this was ZA or ZG [2]. No meter will show [2] whether the DK used Dark Simulacrum on Zanzil, Mandokir, Kilnara. No meter will show [2] who used frost elixirs.

For example, say I am healer in raid and we wipe. I am top in meters, so I was the best healer, right? Wrong! What if I was tank healing, I healed the raid too much, I wasted mana, and the tank died? I failed! No meter HPS will show such!

I already explained you that I have a friend who played arms PvP in patch 4.0/4.1 and he did 20k and beyond. That was with almost full ilvl 365 Vicious. Frost DK is near the DPS of warrior. They are that easy to play! They don't waste hit like raid-geared players. Especially casters.

When we go to his Armory [1] we can see he has PvE spec, PvE gear, and a stumbling 1150 HK. My levelling rogue has more HK than that. He is a PvE player.

The point made is also not that people with such nicknames are always bad players; the point is that the chance they are a bad player is so high that it is a waste of time to even try to play with them. Of course you are going to find false positives.

[1] http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/frostmane/Arthasspvp/simple
[2] (Unless you carefully examine and provide screenshots. Raw log is still better.)

"and not exercise any of the powers he has. Both would force others to to fill that woid (or the guild fails)."

He is the guild master (the dictator if you must) like all other GMs are except the guild has no officers. He is the only one who can /gkick a guild member who is "/g Hi guise!!11 Mebbe do HC riad??//." That is the way the guild is designed.

A leader has to prove they can lead. Gevlon can lead, listens to input he receives and learns from individual and group mistakes. He adapts and commands accordingly. This is leadership quality; the other quality is being able to both lead and play the game as good as possible without losing performance. Gevlon leads the raid for free except he sells the food for 90g/each.

Andrei said...

"The usual funny situation where we have to cancel raid because of lack of damage dealers is back."

Hmm... Shortage of DD in the guild known for DD bashing and with the guild leader who considers any DD a retard until proven otherwise. Coincidence?