Greedy Goblin

Monday, June 13, 2011

Boost raids

I updated the gearing guide (you can comment here that too) and as you can see it focuses on doing the "old" raids (BWD, BoT, TofW) in normal mode. These raids get a huge nerf in 4.2, making them facerollable. The original idea of Blizzard is to allow "friendly social" guilds to "progress", but the real effect is making this content a perfect gearing place. A 3-4 raiders can easily boost 6-7 new people assuming they are not morons who stand in the fire, shoot the wrong dragon and can't stack up when told; just having no gear.

10 new people will still have serious problems as each fight retains some tricks that can wipe the raid if done wrong. Such things like gonging, add-kiting, aberration-interrupting, Rohash-killing, Chim-healing should be done by an experienced player. Also, good luck finding 10 new, but non-M&S people for your raid. So while theoretically these raids are the best places for gearing, due to organizational problems they will remain close for the large audience.

Here comes a clear advantage of our loot distribution system: since we bid with gold, we want gold and new people have gold. In any other system the raiders have no reason to boost new players over the old raids. Actually they have alts to gear up instead. But we can and will have boost raids, allowing new people to gear up very quickly. Just think: one boss can be taken down in 20 mins, including trash and explaining the tricks of the fight. (Yes, I know that a bunch of raiders can do it in 8 mins, that's not the point here.) The boss drops 2 pieces of 359 loot and 70 justice points (no more valor points from normals). As there are only 6-7 people for the loot, telling that every 10th piece will be yours is acceptable guess. So every hour you get 0.6 item and 210 justice points. One item costs 1650-2200 points, so you get 3/4 items/hour on average.

Doing heroics give 70 points/boss and you can kill a boss with trash in 10 mins in a random group, maybe 7 if you organize your own. That's 420-600 pts/hour, about 1/4 items/hour. Nice difference.

Of course as you gear up, less and less drops are good for you. But if you already have several items and experience on the raids, you can come as booster, getting gold. The loot distribution is simple: all gold go to the pot, and at the end distributed among boosters. The second bidder system was introduced to fight "raid optimization", removing loot competitors or not joining if they are present. The second bidder gold compensates the guy for being outbid on a loot he wanted, at the cost of lower pot. In a boost raid no one gives a damn if you don't join, we can 9-man the damn thing, so no compensation, we go for maximum pot.

This will be a distinctive advantage to our guild for new players (or newly leveling alts), as no other guild will be that busy to boost them. There is no point for them to do so. We have a motive: gold. If items sell for only 1000G on average, that's still 6000G/hour, going 3-4 ways. Not bad for raiding. As I mentioned before, the system is self-sustaining, last weeks boostees are next weeks boosters, who come because they still need a few items, but with the ones they have they can faceroll content.


Anonymous said...

Minor problem with "gold dkp" runs now is that, if you've been a goblin, you don't need the gold anymore. There's actually not much to spend it on once you have your Vial of the Sands. I'm hoping Bliz will come up with a 300k gold item in 4.x ...

Grim said...

Disagree with the "no other guild will be that busy to boost them" part.

Other guilds have social raiders with alts, who will drag along a couple of newbies just to fill up that alt-run. And they do it for free.

With all the nerfs, they won't need their well-geard mains to faceroll normals. They have been raiding the place for half a year - they can do the tactics with their eyes closed.

Bernard said...

A 300k item is unlikely in the present system as it only be available to goblins and goldbuyers.

Due to the typical social jealousies, the 'community' will tend to treat the former as the latter.

ardoRic said...

Actually, the ADVANTAGE of GDKP's is that it gives purpose to all that gold you goblins mass up: you can use it for gear instead of relying on /roll

There is incentive on going to boost raids because they provide gold for you to buy gear on your proper raids. It's as much of a win-win situation as there can be.

Anonymous said...

Social raiders with alts perform less good ("social -> for fun, alt -> got the loot anyway, why care lololol") than goblin main ("main -> better performance than johny's 5th lolalt") raiders who come for only getting gold.

One of them has incentive, the other one hardly has. One of them will be drawn out after a wipe or two being peer-pressured and all that, the other one will vote with their wallet.

Grim said...

The goblin might bring better performance (social epeen and stuff aside)... if the normal modes were still hard enough for anyone to notice.

A 20% nerf is huge. Remember ICC? And that these are normal modes to begin with?
Altraids are already a thing and doing good (Nef and perhaps Al`akir are problematic to them provided that their mains can do at least a couple of hardmodes). Add 20% nerf and they are hardly more challenging than heroics.

Anonymous said...

I really disagree with the first anon: how much do you think the very first of the replacement-for-primordial-saronite BOE Living Embers will sell for? Or the 378 crafted gear that the person with the first pattern will sell it for? I think day one you could easily spend >100k for a bleeding edge raider. Perhaps considerablely more.

The gearing-up people who most benefit from your system are middle of the road.

If you can get carried or otherwise do 4.2, raids, that's the best way to go.

If you have limited time, then the [troll] heroic dailies are so much more important than raids previous tier raids that drop 359 gear and JP until you hit the weekly VP cap.

So after you have capped your VP, then your gDKP runs are a great idea with your guild. ( I'd rather PUG a heroic than an old content raid but your group is quite different than a PUG. )

When the once a week raid concludes,a person who has more time just runs heroics. An OCD person on vacation can use crafted plus JP to get to nearly 359 the week the patch drops, especially with 4000 JP to spend on login.

gDKP is such a rational system.

Anonymous said...

@ Grim sigh, you still do not need to do raid to get full ilvl 359. You can get those from simple JP. The only thing you may need is a couple of BiS from normal raid, or an achievement. Even then, all that gear will be bad, and soon free since it is what all start with in 4.2. What we all want is the new BoE, the new VP gear, the gear from normal Firelands raid, and eventually the HC Firelands gear. Because it is so easy to get full ilvl 359, and because there is new content, hardly anyone will play the old raids even though they're nerfed.

Nobody in a hardcore raiding guild is going to play with alts to that content. They already did that, they're done with that, because hardcore raiding guilds have cleared 13/13 HC since last winter. Thats why these people have 'the Insane' on their main. They're utterly bored after a few months of hardcore raiding.

What remains is guilds which are too stupid to clear the new content and who are utterly bored. Slacker guilds, social guilds, etc. Which for example is the guild I was in before I joined The PuG. So yes, you are right, the M&S guilds will finally be able to kill Nefarian in full ilvl 359 after a few nights of wiping. The PuG won't though because they're on the new content, and since the mains will be in the new raid there is little time to boost other people to get a lolachi nobody gives a rat about.

maxim said...

Actually the shoulder and helm slots are still more or less irreplaceable outside of raids.

Also getting at least one of these slots allows relatively easy access to 4x t11 bonus through the use of JP-buyables, which is the strongest gear boost you can have pre-raid for most classes. You'll need either pretty much two t12 pieces to make replacing 4xt11 worthwhile, which is nearly a month of valor farming (and not spending valor on any other loot, too).

For a guild which frequently has less geared characters in it's raids, gearing runs in 359 content is a great thing.