Tuesday, November 30, 2010

Need alts to explore content!

Goldmaking tip: many people are selling off all their stuff on the AH preparing for Cataclysm. Not just the stuff that loses value. Buy these out. Since I have a strong "no investment tip" policy, I won't tell what to buy, but don't slack at the AH now, you are missing on a fortune!
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Many people claim that they need alts to explore the whole content of WoW. I get these claims almost every time when I mention the "no alts" rule in the guild. I always felt that it's somehow wrong, but couldn't prove (I mean logically) why. Until now.

Since the Shattering I spent most of my time (when I wasn't in WG upkeeping our 70%+ win rate) exploring the new "old" world. With my girlfriend we visited every single land from Cape of Stranglethorn to Winterspring to see what changed, talked all the flightmasters, stopped by every single new object or scenery, comparing it with memories and old screenshots. Also we did all the quests that worgens offered, so my Gilneas rep is halway honored. So I'm not saying that "exploring is lame and you shouldn't do it".

I claim that you don't need an alt to do it, you can do it with your main. Well, obviously you can, but isn't it somehow a different, worse experience? I mean I remember Shattered Halls and Magister's Terrace. They were complicated instances needing long discussions and markings before every second pull. Needed all the tools in our box and it was real victory when we did it. Doing the same instances with 5 lvl 80-es would be a very different experience: we would simply pull the whole room and AoE them down. That would be boring and would be simply cheating, like playing a single player game in god mode.

However lowbie out-world combat is fundamentally different from the mentioned instances. Simply speaking: a level-appropriate character should do something terribly wrong to die. Remember my old solo-posts? I soloed lowbie dungeons alone at or below level and duoed them with my girlfriend down to 5 levels below the endboss. Why is it fundamental? Imagine the following shaman-bot:
  1. Cast lightning bolt
  2. If monster is dead, goto 5
  3. If you have less than 60% HP, cast healing wave
  4. Goto 1
  5. Loot monster
Imagine that every time I see an enemy I want to kill or get aggro, just target the monster and start the bot. My game experience would be identical if I'm lvl 10 or lvl 80, the only difference being the bot running longer as the lvl 80 would most probably oneshot the target. Being low level gives nothing to the combat experience than more time spent watching the bot playing.

If we get the combat out of the equation, what else left?
  • Travel: same for lvl 10 and lvl 80 except the time spent as mounts allow faster travel.
  • Random mob aggro: lvl 80 won't get it, lvl 10 gets it, but then it's just more time spent on the combat bot
  • Reading quest texts: lvl irrelevant
  • Vehicular combat: lvl irrelevant
  • PvP: lvl 80 has less chance to be annoyed by gankers
So the difference between doing the content as lvl 80 vs a new alt is simply less time spent having the same experience. You absolutely don't need an alt for exploration purposes. The only exceptions are starter quests (they are race-specific), the DK questline, and having one alt in the other faction to access faction specific quests and visit faction cities/towns. If people would really want to explore content, they would do it on their main. They prefer alts for irrational reasons.

Note: "I need alt to heal in raid" is offtopic. I did not claim here that alts in general are bad. The post is about alts for "experiencing content".

53 comments:

Anonymous said...

if the experience is something you enjoy then why would you want the time spent doing it to be shortened?

Anonymous said...

Or they want to double up the game experience while creating an alt-for-profit. Time loss is painful and all but we all know leveling is infinitely less than endgame play.

Purplezorlak said...

I usually agree with you gevlon, but not this time. As I'm bored of ICC and my guild only raids 3 days a week, I'm leveling a hunter, and it's a totally different experience from my warrior main.

Anonymous said...

So far I've managed to get only one alt to 80. Actually, there was no reason to do so. I could have stopped at 65 since I just wanted to have an alt with engineering which is one of my income sources with 5 minutes per week spent on actual work.

I do have other lowbie alts with almost all possible professions, but it doesn't seem to me like I really need them. Even though they do provide useful services to my main, time it took me to "make them useful" wasn't really worth it. Yeah, I had a chance to try different classes, but I didn't like them anyway. The only exception was the retribution paladin which I leveled with the sole purpose of soloing lowbie instances. Even managed to finish Scarlet Monastery: Cathedral at level 39 (one level before you get Repentance).

As far as exploring the content goes, well, I'm hated with goblins, so when I took a flight from EPL to Badlands (after Shattering) it was a dead end for me and I had to HS out. Cape of Stranglethorn and probably other goblin associated zones are out of my reach at the moment. I bet though that most players won't have that issue. I like what Blizzard did to most zones in terms of quests and traveling time, however some zones are as slow as they were pre-4.0.3 (Arathi Highlands, The Hinterlands, partially Northern Stranglethorn). Overall, Lordaeron revamp is a "win" in my opinion. Even Tirisfal Glades received a meta questline.

Gevlon said...

@Many deleted commenters: text added to the post "I need alt to heal in raid" is offtopic. I did not claim here that alts in general are bad. The post is about alts for "experiencing content".

@Anonymous: if you find grinding pigs doing a bot's work "fun", good for you!

@Purplezorlak: if you are so bored with the game, why don't you just turn it off?

Olga said...

Actually, they tuned low level instances, so healing Wailing Caverns in questing greens with the group of people with same gear was entertaining. Later instances are simplier, though, maybe due to me getting some blues from my healer and heirloomed groups. Anyways, now every single low level instance is nowhere near to what it used to be in Wrath. Still, Gnomer, say, is still not as tough as it was at classic times.
So i actually spent three evenings on alt just to see how they changed lowbie experience.

Anonymous said...

What you are really saying is that WoW is a bad game which offers no challenge from 1-80. To a certain extent I agree. Soling the occasional group quest involving elites and the opportunity for PvP breaks that up and can make the experience more fun.

Also, the content is not just the quests. The classes themselves can be seen as content. Playing each class from 1-80 is an experience which some enjoy independent of the challenge of the leveling.

Botter said...

Its not the areas that changed even the quests... They are more in depth in the lore of warcraft. Humans start off battling orcs in the beginning instead of smelly kobolds and the Forsaken get more in depth about how to feel about being undead. The new quests are more interesting now especially for those who are into the lore of the game.

Vinnz said...

Gevlon: They prefer alts for irrational reasons.

What is rational in playing any computer game?

Nerdrager said...

I'm experiencing the new quests with my lvl 80 druid because what matters to me about leveling content is the story behind it and guess what? By using a lvl 80 you can skip the grindy parts and enjoy more lore per unit of time spent questing.

But yes if you "need" an alt then it makes sense to experience new quests with a different class.

Gevlon said...

@Vinzz: I mean if we accept the framework of the game as axioms it's still irrational.

Sarge said...

Besides the "irrational reasons" that leveling alts is fun...
...I think there's no better way to learn what different class abilities are there.
If players experience the game from all perspectives (dd, healer, tank) they'll be much better group players, which improves endgame experience a lot.
Of course you can learn all these things by theorycrafting, but experiencing it first hand is better.

Gevlon said...

@Sarge: because spamming frostbolts all day will teach you how to be a good raiding or PvP mage.

Ghostly said...

You have to think that there are a lot of people who likes not only the experiencie of leveling but also the experiencie of roleplaying. It's a different aproach that not only involves gaining levels but also a path of change and character evolution. FE: it's very dificult to be in a undead warrior role trying to understand your place in this world and going to the new silverpine's quests when you downed the lich king and have killed the very same entity that created you.

Himanshu said...

I am posting here for the first time. Been reading your blog since a long time now (I think I started during your Ulduar in blues project).

I think I have probably read every single one of your blog posts since that time...the fact that I have done that implies that I like reading them (thumbs up)...but I do disagree to about 1/4th of them :P

In this case, without going into the details of whether alts are good or bad...your claim of alts being unnecessary to experience content is incorrect. As anonymous said 'Also, the content is not just the quests. The classes themselves can be seen as content.', playing different classes is indeed a different experience.
I have 7 80s, and 3 70s (1 of each class)...and I cover all possible roles of the game using these toons...the difference in playing other classes is huge...for example between playing my pally tank and playing my warrior tank.
Part of your post is correct...no one needs alts to do quests or 'explore' the zones.
But to experience the full game, I think playing alts or different classes does contribute a lot towards experiencing the game.

TL:DR-
Can you play the game and enjoy it without alts? Yes
Is it a different experience playing other classes and roles? Very much so

Zazkadin said...

When doing something in WoW, I always strive to maximize the results of my game input, so I prefer to do stuff that gives me XP, skill, achievements, reputation and gold combined when possible (in that order of priority too).

With an alt that is low-level, unexperienced, poor and has not maxed out reputation, there is much more to gain than with the main, which only gains some immeasurable playing experience.

That being said, I am now doing many new zone quests on my main, for the achievements (even though I am happy to already have the Loremaster title).

Anonymous said...

<>
no that wont. but doing instances, going through pvp and each time using the new skills to try and react to all possible situations can.
also it's interesting to see what the people on the other side use against you so you may take the idea (eg. what works good against me when i play a mage -> try it next time with my main against another mage).

also playing alts is simply enjoyable for the 'growing' aspect of characters. but maybe i'm just coming to much from the single player rpg's perspective.

Anonymous said...

If you want to check the lore, you only need to get an alt up to level 4-6. All other quests are freely available even if you're playing a different race. Of course there are class quests later in game, but so far it seems that for Horde they all lead to SFK and BRD no matter which class you have chosen and in several weeks all text will be available at Wowhead (if it's not already) for your reading pleasure.

I have a guildie who has 5 or 6 level 80 alts on one account and 1 or 2 more on another. Several people in guild have two accounts which they use either to keep their numerous alts or for multiboxing. I have 3 useful alts: a level 75 scribe, a level 80 engineer and a level 68 alchemist/bank alt (death knight). All of them also have a gathering profession, so I spend less gold on buying mats which I can get while leveling (not farming!). Inscription is useful once you have most of the glyphs, so you can (a) sell glyphs yourself and (b) don't have to pay 50g per glyph to someone else. Engineering is highly profitable even after arrows/bullets were removed from game since most of my profit comes from pre-TBC segment. My alchemist is specialized in transmutation (note: you can't get specialization until level 68, but you can get to 450 at 65 and do epic transmutes). If you're making an alt-for-profit, don't bother getting it to cap unless you plan to "farm for free". Blizzard is going to screw some alts up due to phased vendors though.

Ypp said...

Actually I found a counter-example the hard way yesterday. I was on my main, and tried to do the low level quest where you must be poisoned by scorpions. Even though I was completely naked at the time, because of the level difference the mob was barely able to hit me - let alone poison me - for a whole quarter hour.
I agree this is hardly a major issue, but this quest might open a chain, so I'm hitting a stone wall there.

Anonymous said...

I completely agree that "Need alts to explore content" is senseless.
It does however make sense if you have several objectives behind the alt.
For me, an 'alt' project makes sense if it allows you to experience the game from a completely new perspective.
After 4 years of playing (main-only) a PvE Priest I got a little bored by the game, so I defined an alt project that allowed me to re-discover the game completely.
I levelled a Blood Elf Paladin in a mix of PvE and PvP. Allowing me to 1) experience the Blood Elf starting zone, 2) experience melee and tanking instead of Healing and Ranged, 3) Experience a lot of PvP, 4) add Mining and Jewelcrafting to my available tradeskills. It has been a very interesting new experience overall.

So, "Need alt to explore content": not true it is defined this narrow.
"Need alt for a completely new game experience": yes, if you make it into a pre-defined project with clear objectives.

Love the blog, keep up the good work.

Fausti said...

A little additional tip, besides "use your main to discover the new lands".
"Wait until you get old world flying to explore the new lands".
310% is THE fastest way to explore, and Cataclysm is only a week away

Shintar said...

Your old soloing posts are just that: old. Instance mobs have been buffed up considerably, so working your way through an instance at level is actually an interesting experience now. You wouldn't know that as an 80 though, because you still one-shot things.

Likewise some low-level world mobs have also been buffed up to do more interesting things like drop bombs, create poison puddles etc. but again that's something you wouldn't even notice while going through as an 80 because you one-shot them before they can do anything.

Your argument seems to be based on the assumption that all combat is totally uninteresting - but it's not if you're actually fighting things at the right level.

Yagamoth said...

It's an interesting approach. Basically I do agree with it if you are talking about "exploring the whole content" with the exception of the starting areas.

However, your answer to "Sarge" implies somehow, that you are also (or actually?) talking about "experiencing the whole content", that's where I can't agree. It's true, for leveling most people only use 1 or 2 buttons. However, you also have the chance to try out the various other abilities and learn how they work in depth. I claim that there are only few people that can watch videos/read about abilities and completely understand everything.

If you are playing PvP on a fairly advanced level, such experience can be for many people, such as me, invaluable.
Before playing a Rogue I already did understand the basic and advanced tactics of their class, but it was much easier to counter them after I played one.

Of course, playing a class mostly for analytical purposes is not what most people are doing. However, this is my approach to it, and I think it's valid.

Admittedly, I wouldn't really need such an alt in the guild and I support your "no alt"-rule for various other reasons.

Anonymous said...

Why explore and quest on 1 character, when you can do the exact same thing on a fresh new character which in turn gives you another nicely leveled alt to play around with?

Anonymous said...

If alts in general are not bad, what makes more sense?

Blazing threw the content, "experiencing" it on your level 80 main, gaining a couple silver for each quest along with some rep, trashing virtually every quest reward immediatly.

-or-

Leveling up your alt while experiencing new content, something you must spend time doing anyway, and gain a large sum of xp and some useful equipment in the process.

If you admit there is some use to having a high level alt, doesn't it make more sense to level that alt in the process of experiencing content rather than experiencing that same content on your main who gains virtually nothing from it? That gilneas rep you gained could have been easily obtained in a couple dungeons while wearing a tabard.

Alrenous said...

A lot of the point of RPGs is progression. (To feel as if you've progressed, not necessarily to actually progress.)

And the one thing you don't get as an 80 is progression. As a non-Gevlon, your options are:

Explore content.
Explore content AND progress.

And that's why you get people choosing option 2.


On the other hand I have no idea why you'd need to have your alts in the Pug. I have this amazing command called /friend, and another called /join . Voila, all the benefits of a guild, minus all the people you don't care about. You can even customize the chat colour to green if you want.


Alternatively, with the new guild perqs, you could have a specific 'alt' rank with no privileges at all, even chat. If there's some reason that still makes problems, a separate guild -alts of Pug- would do it, too. In other words, this is an easy problem...unless people just want to be in a guild due to some random reflex.

Okrane S. said...

You are right. Alts for exploration are useless (with ofc the exception of class specific quests/zones). Cannot argue there.

I would like however to hear from you the places where alts are useful.

Personally, I level alts to experience different pve roles (ranged, melee, tank, healer) as well as different pvp strengths and weaknesses (where each class has its own set).

P.S. I'm back!

Tarel said...

Don't agree here. Playing a different class is playing different content as you are also experiencing the Alts class capabilities. I have 7 80s and a 19 twink. They were all played for various reasons. The main one being fun and to enjoy the game.

The last alt I took to 80 helped me experience one thing. Hunters can very easily mess up. Auto firing on the boss is just way too easy. The first time I did it I couldn't help but laugh.

I do think if you pvp with the other classes you see even better what they struggle with and what they need to do to counter.

But it is just a game. Enjoy it for what you want it to be. I just don't agree with you.

Choky Heimlich said...

Well, considering Gevlon's guild rule of not having an alt...you probably only are raiding one day a week ICC, maybe two if you are scraping up other things, VoA,OS,RS,ToC, etc... That leaves plenty of days all week long to explore...and even do compulsive questing if one is doing the Loremaster nonsense.

Mind you that isn't considering if you have some toon somewhere else you are playing, leveling, raiding with, I understand every case isn't the same, so take this as subjective.

I myself am a compulsive raider, I have 6 end game raiding toons and working on 4 more, yes 1 of each class, I raid almost every night. I can also support my guild in raiding needs as well, but the point is I have alts because I like to raid....and I detest every aspect of leveling. To give a simple comparison though...I do all the world exploration/progression/mount farming/lore whoring/achievement grabbing on a single Main toon, and most people with alts do the same...because they want to progress their main toon as far as possible...its their representation and they want to do well with it....I think people saying they need alts for experience content are making excuses for something else.

Anonymous said...

This is starting to move off topic from the original post, but there is a good reason to want one's alts in the guild. One type of person who is interested in is the person who cannot regularly commit to large blocks of playing time beforehand. When he does play he wants his time to productive.
This kind of person is attracted to the pick up and go nature of the Pug while simultaneously repulsed by the need to be on his main at all times to know if there is anything happening. If his alt were able to be in the guild then he could track if there were any impromptu raids which his main could attend, while still being able to make good use of his limited game time.

Michael Young said...

Playing a class with an interrupt is quite different than one without. Playing a ranged class is quite different from a melee class. Playing as a pure dps is very different from playing as a healer or tank class.

If you do just one of any of these, you're missing out on a big part of the game experience. Different mobs become scary/hard to deal with. Different quests become more/less compelling.

Leveling by questing as a rogue, aoe grinding as a prot pally or frost mage, or dungeon spamming as a tree druid, all are very different experiences, and you do yourself a disservice not to have a chance to enjoy all of them.

Gevlon said...

@Michael Young: at first it's offtopic as the post is not against alts in general, but alts for "experiencing content". Secondly: roll a druid and you can tank, heal, melee and ranged.

@Anonymous: if someone doesn't have lot of time for playing, why does he have alts on the first place?

Nikodhemus said...

I agree that you don't 'need' an alt to experience the content. But it is as you said, like playing through a game on God mode... its not any fun that way! I'm rolling a Troll Druid because 1) Never played a druid! 2) New Troll start zone! 3) I've got all the professions I want, now I need a straight gatherer to cash in on.

And, the argument that people want Alts in The PuG is pure BS... it goes against the purpose of the 'guild' in the first place. It is a guild based on NOT being a guild! If you want friends to level with, go join a 'friendly helpful ppl' guild with your alt. When you want to raid, get on your main and PuG. Or change your main in the PuG.

If the game has become so boring that you are macroing everything you do, its really time to quit.

Kenny said...

I agree totally. The only thing is:
"PvP: lvl 80 has less chance to be annoyed by gankers."

The reason I play on a PvP server, is because I love pvp, including world pvp.

People who care about: "PvP: lvl 80 has less chance to be annoyed by gankers.", should play on a normal server. Complaining about this is moronic.

I love questing, and being ganked. I love questing, and hiding from high lvls. I love waiting for opportune moments to kill other lowbies, or even kill lvl 80s. I got my first ever lvl 80 kill on my lvl 59 druid, outside Orgrimmar. I love deciding to try and fight a party of people and winning.

However this is the ONLY thing that makes questing at the right level better for me. All the other reasons are totally valid, and probably explains why I have so few alts.

Kenny said...

Also @Shintar

No, "Instance mobs have been buffed up considerably, so working your way through an instance at level is actually an interesting experience now." is wrong.

I zerged Stormwind Stockade on a lvl 23 warrior...

cdsx said...

gevlon: If you take combat out of the picture I think you've lost quite a bit of the gameplay. Heck at that point why even bother using your main? If all you want is experiencing the content, go watch youtube videos or read the text on wowhead (seems the best way to win is to not even play the game). Lets compare your points: Travel: no time at all, or rather clicking the links in your browser aggro: none combat: none (faster than trivial/waiting for respawns) pvp: none (no gankers). Thus I submit the truly rational way is to just read the quests in wowhead, as I've demonstrated in all categories you care about that it is the superior option.

Dàchéng said...

Firstly, I don't think Michael Young's post is off-topic. Exploring content is more than just seeing it. The exploration includes pitting yourself against level-appropriate enemies, and the experience is different depending on your class and role. In other words, there are several different ways to explore and experience all content in which you end up fighting your opponent (which is most content). You have not fully explored the content until you have tried all these experiences.

Secondly, if the content is so easy that your shaman-bot can beat it, then you are not fighting level-appropriate content, and are not experiencing it. Simply seeing the Stockades as a level 80 character doesn't mean you are getting the full experience. See this link, for instance, for how I failed to experience the Stockade, despite having seen it. I have not explored the Stockade instance yet.

Anonymous said...

Not being able to play regularly on certain days of the week is not the same as not being able to play enough to get multiple level 80s and gear them up from heroics.

As you have repeatedly pointed out, it is not difficult to get a character to level 80. It is also not difficult to gear up a character to full badge gear with full gems/enchants. These things can be done solo+dungeon finder on one's own schedule without any particular time commitment. The game has been out 6 years now, remember.

Once the gear up is accomplished, what is this person left to do? Hardcore raids are out. Casual guilds are left but most of those are social guilds. Enter The Pug. Win for everyone.

But what to do when there is no organized raid? Or when the spots are full? Sit around and hope a raid starts or a slot opens up? Or log an alt and get something done in the meantime.

short version: your policy limits how people are able spend their non-raiding game time while still being able to track new events in the guild.

PartingVisions said...

While you are technically correct in that you don't 'need' and alt to experience the content, by doing it as an 80 as opposed to a level appropriate character, 100% of your 'shortened exploration experience' time is wasted, versus having a new leveled up character.

The fact that you are getting rep for Gilneas is not a rebuttal to this as there are infinitely faster ways to achieve said rep.

Kuckuck said...

@YPP

Sit with your back facing the monster.
Sitting allows any mob a 100% hit and crit chance on you regardless of level.
Turning arround just removes the chance for you to dodge while sitting down after you are hit.

This is if it has not been changed in 4.0 however

ps. This is also a great way to make your healers go crazy when tanking an easy raid boss. /evil

Squishalot said...

@ Gevlon: "@Anonymous: if someone doesn't have lot of time for playing, why does he have alts on the first place?"

I've had this discussion with my brother quite recently. The conventional 'goal' or 'end game' for players is raiding. For people who don't have time for playing, the goal is levelling progression. Once you hit 80, there is no longer any leveling progression, so they move to the next alt.

The only difference is that their goals are different to yours. The 'altoholics' don't care about raiding so much.

More on topic - the experience is weakened if there is no risk of dying. To use a (somewhat poor) example, don't you think you appreciate Hogger less as an 80, than as a level 10 character? Your bot won't be able to kill Hogger before going OOM if you're level-appropriate in quest greens anyway.

MJS said...

Your definition of "experiencing content" is very narrow. Each class and their skills is content. There are many ways to kill enemies and support allies, for both PvE and PvP. I'd like to experience more than 1/10th of them.

Kaelik said...

Doing content at the appropriate level is a different experience than doing it with an extremely overpowered max-level character. Obviously either allows you to SEE the content, but actually experiencing the content requires more interaction.

Max-level characters simply don't interact with an environment in the same way "correct" level characters do. There is no danger, no sense of accomplishment, no discovery of creative ways to complete difficult tasks on your own, etc, etc. Max-level toons just run around and mow down anything that gets in their way.

Certainly seeing the content is possible with a max-level toon, but actually PLAYING it requires an appropriately leveled alt.

Anonymous said...

There is something to be said for experiencing the narrative of the shattering in the way the 'authors' intended it to be delivered. Sure I can jump into a lowbie area with my main and see all the lowbie quests as once, but that’s a different pacing of the plot, its not how the authors meant for the story to be told, as an alt I will unlock the story at a more measured pace. If I can use an analogy its like hitting the cliff notes version of a novel. You get the gist of what’s going on the main points of plot and character, but miss all the subtlety of what the original author intended.

Some people are okay with just the cliff notes, some of us want to savour the story.

Gevlon said...

@Squishalot, Kaelik: the point is that there is no risk of dying with a level-appropriate character (unless you are a total moron and play melee mage, pull a dozen mobs or pull when on 20% health). The level-appropriate combat is just longer than the lvl80. Not harder or more dangerous, just longer.

@MSJ: because shooting "shadow bolt" or "smite" instead of "frostbolt" is a so different content.

Anonymous said...

Gevlon,

One thing you seem to have left out of your original argument and even seem to have dismissed in some of the comments is the ability to experience flow (which you have written about at least a few times if I remember correctly).

If you are plowing through trivial grind mobs to complete simple quest tasks just for the sake of being able to read and absorb new game lore it won't matter much if your character is level-appropriate or max level. However, the environment and lore is only a portion of the experience that you get while leveling an alt. The best way I can think of to explain my point would be to give an example of how I personally go about leveling an alt.

First of all, I usually spend a decent amount of time studying the high level theorycraft behind a class even if I'm playing that class at a very low level currently. There is almost alway some knowledge gained from this that can be applied immediately as well as playstyle concepts that can be practiced even while killing weak quest mobs. I also personally enjoy finding ways to adapt high level concepts to be more optimal at lower levels. Learning these concepts and when/how to deviate from them successfully translates well into high level gameplay.

I also like to improve my abilities as a player in any way possible. For a new class, that usually means learning when and how to use certain "oh shit" buttons to improve my ability to take on non-trivial content no matter what level I am. Non-trivial content can be anything from trying to solo group quests to learning to survive an instance with random terrible PuGs. These types of skills also translate well to high level gameplay.

With this playstyle, I am able to experience flow by constantly challenging myself and constantly making a conscious effort to improve my skills as a player. Through this, I am also able to master many aspects of a class long before I ever reach max level.

I'd like to think i'm not the only person who plays like this. For any others like me, the learning is the primary "content" to be experienced by leveling an alt, not just scenery and stories.

Having said all of that. I still like the spirit of the no-alt rule in the PuG and I think the rule is worth keeping for that reason. People can put their alts in any other guild they want or switch mains at any time without consequence so the rule is not unreasonable.

Squishalot said...

@ Gevlon: "the point is that there is no risk of dying with a level-appropriate character (unless you are a total moron and play melee mage, pull a dozen mobs or pull when on 20% health). The level-appropriate combat is just longer than the lvl80. Not harder or more dangerous, just longer."

Again, that doesn't apply for elites without a self-healing, melee based character.

The experience is definitely different between using an 80 mage and a 10 mage to take on a level appropriate elite. My 80 mage can one or two-shot most normal mobs and can stand-and-shoot down elite mobs like Chillmaw. Pre-80 mages cannot do the same.

Ephemeron said...

The most efficient, rational and asocial way of exploring new content is to read quest descriptions on WoWhead and watch event videos on Youtube. It takes less time (since you don't have to run back and forth and kill stuff) and less money (because you can do it without being subscribed to WoW).

If you don't find the sheer act of pushing the same buttons over and over again enjoyable, then this is exactly what you should have done.

Xerian said...

I can most certainly guarantee you won't solo anything in dungeons on low level right now. The first boss in the lowest dungeon available (Glubtok in Deadmines) has around 10-11k health. Solo that on level 15 with limited mana ;)

Actually I agree with the people claiming "to need an alt for exploration"
It's not the exploration itself - it's to see the new stuff for a level it is intended for. Of course, it's not very difficult to go and blast through it with your ICC-heroic geared level 80 main character, but it neither takes long nor do you really pay attention to the quests you do, right?

If you are level appropriate, you see the stuff differently. They did a lot of cool new stuff. That's probably the main reason people claim to need an alt for this.

It's actually quite fun to do Deadmines or Shadowfang Keep with a lowlevel group now.

Ðesolate said...

"It's actually quite fun to do Deadmines or Shadowfang Keep with a lowlevel group now."

Theese are the only ones I´d say it´s interesting low-lvl content on low level alts. Since now I´d like to see a Link of a charakter who soloes these two (focus on the bosses) on the given level (warlock may be possible).

Everything else is quite the same if you do it on lvl 80. My only purpose to have lvl 80 alts is offtopic
(logs in special situation for theorycrafting, understanding pvp-opponents, people who claim "can´t defeat class x with y" and bet 50k+ gold on that).

Jana said...

Low level dungeons haven't been buffed anywhere near enough!

Now I am checking out Zul Farrak. Yes, the mob health has been upped for about 50%, while some boss health has even been doubled, but it's all still soloable with protection warrior at intended level.

Even the most wiping (from soloing perspective) abilities there have been nerfed. Hex is now 4 seconds down from 8.

So the point is that from perspective of a group of 5 poeple with a slightest clue, it's all still a faceroll fest.

Green Armadillo said...

Unless you pay for a faction change, you need at least one high level alt to experience all the quest content. :)

The other seemingly obvious point is that rolling up an alt results in you having an alt when you're done. If you believe that having the alt will have a non-zero future value for you, that might tip the scales in favor of doing your exploring on a new character; it may take longer now, but not as much longer as it would to level a new character later.

MJS said...

Gevlon: because shooting "shadow bolt" or "smite" instead of "frostbolt" is a so different content.

Yes it is. The only similarities between those 3 skills is they have a cast time, cost mana and do magic damage. The list of differences is long, here are a few examples:
• Smite can heal the nearest ally, stack a buff that increases its damage, you can activate this buff to return mana & boost your healing.
• Shadow bolt can apply a crit chance debuff on your target, casting conflgrate can increase it's cast speed, it has a chance to be instant cast when you take physical damage.
• Frost bolt snares your target, does extra damage to frozen targets, it can be cast more quickly every 15 seconds, it can proc an instant cast fireball/frostfire bolt.

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