Greedy Goblin

Monday, May 31, 2010

Great news everyone!

The slime is flowing again! ... Or maybe not (video):


But first thing first. Saurfang oneshotted the blue tank after the 20% buff, or something like that (video):


Then we killed Precious in absolutely honorable combat:


After these we went to Rotface and died to the oozes. And again. And again. Because kiting an ooze to the big ooze is hard. Almost as hard as dispelling. However as we got better, we lived longer, and finally he went down (despite there were 2 big oozes around in the kill).

We had no more time left to do any new boss but the raid wanted to do a single try on Festergut. As the logs show, the tank survived 3 blights. We died because "healers stay melee range to get spores" is sometimes hard. Again: a 3.3K GS tank, healed by 3.3K GS healers was not killed by Festergut with 3 blights. The raid had 24.8K DPS with no pots, expired or resist flasks and even in oozekiter spec, no buff stacking, tanks having no DPS weapon, so the naysayers belonging to the "cult of Festergut" can start to find themselves a new deity. They have 2 weeks, because we first do a tribute run to the Twilight fans.

PS: if you have no idea what's going on, Undergeared is a guild created to raid in only blue gear (about 3300 GS), you can see all our adventures on this blog.

Videos by Maladroite.

58 comments:

Andru said...

Going by the Saurfang DPS, at 30% you'd have 28.3k DpS, or thereabouts. Mind telling me where you'll squeeze another 10% extra raiddps from?

Bear in mind that raidwide Damage taken per second is more than double on fester than Saurfang.

Anonymous said...

Why did you pull Precious all the way to the entrance of the Frostwing quarter?

Andru said...

Oh also, one of your tanks did die. Check out the Ardent Defender proc. Any other class of tank would have died there. (Unless they were under a defensive CD, but I get the feeling that was a spike blow, and not a predictable damage increase. Meaning that your other tanks would have to guesswork their CDs)

Gevlon said...

@Anonymous: because decimate is nasty.

@Andru: no, I meant with 20%. And you'll see where I'll get 20% more raid DPS. And also OH NOES! Tank had to use cooldown!

Anonymous said...

The point is, he didn't have to USE it. Game used it for him :|
Believe me, AD is the most ridiculously overpowered thing this game has to offer if your tank undergears the content.

Anonymous said...

then complain about paladin tanks. Ignore the fact that other tanking classes have a myriad of cooldowns to mitigate damage.

Derp.

Anonymous said...

@Anonymous:
1.ignore the fact they're doing this project in blues;
2.ignore the fact they're going outside the box just to do something that's not been done before in WoW; 3. whinge about the class they're using because frankly you can't think of anything better
4. win "teh Intertubes!"
How about we all sit back and say "*g* this stuff's really cool, I wonder where/if they'll stop before the LK".

LarĂ­sa said...

Here comes a bit of cheering from the barside!

I love to see that you're still having a blast conquering the world at a time when many put down their weapons.

It doesn't matter that much how you're geared as long as you get enough of challenge for the gear you wear. I'm way better geared than you ofc, but doing hardmoces ICC will grant me equal amount of entertainment. We tried hc Putricide last night for the first time. No gear in the world can help you against the complexity of that fight! It will certainly keep us occupied for a while more!

But really - what you are doing must be just as fun and interesting. It's not about the gear. It's about having the appropriate content to beat.

joost said...

@ Undergeared,

Job wel done! Don't let anyone take away the fun and achievement by saying you have a 20% buff. Everyone has that and people still manage to fail hard.

Keep going!
#Paniek

Anonymous said...

here and there some little mistakes, but i suppose that even proves your point more that current content is a joke.

retired some time ago now from pve, but if it weren't for the fact that i thought this project has a limited life expactancy (once you clear everything) i would consider to actually pay a servertransfer for this. looks like a blast, at least way more fun then i had killing the first few bosses in hc 25 toc gear before i decided the current pve scene wasn't fun anymore to me.

Anonymous said...

Gevlon and Undergeared crew: you guys are an inspiration. You motivated me to quit healing for my old M&S guild and apply as competitive DPS to a guild that means business. I am happier in the game, but more importantly, I am not spamming Nourish on any more firedancing warlocks. Let them die: when you beat bosses they're still wiping on, I will send them this link.

/salute!

The One and Only... said...

would love to have a link that i can post with your progress so far... you know... link to some short info how well you do/did like the progressbars on some guildsites.

most people dont read to much but some short info will wake some intresst in some more and we can post that link if there is someone who wants over 9000 gs for weekly naxx (and we wiped 3 times... in 3 diffrent pugs to patchwork... gs over 9000 didnt help at all - downed him with a 5man grp after that -.-)

Harrumph said...

@The One and Only

if someone can't read a simple article, do you really think that a simpler link would have any impact AT ALL on them?

Just look at MMO-Champion forums after this is posted.

"BUT YOU CANT' DO HARDDMODES!11"

Chopsui said...

@The One and Only

http://www.wowprogress.com/guild/eu/arathor/Undergeared/rating.tier10_10

Anonymous said...

@Andru
"Mind telling me where you'll squeeze another 10% extra raiddps from?"
Oh, I dunno, maybe using pots, flasks, changing out of oozekiter spec, engaging in a little buff stacking and giving the tank a DPS weapon? You know, all the things that Gevlon mentioned in his post? DPS will surely increase with practice as well. Not to mention I'm sure the goblin has other tricks up his sleeve. Goblins are sneaky.

And seriously Andru, you're complaining about Ardent Defender? Does a boss kill not count if you use it? One of the points of the project (as I understand it) is to prove that all content is doable without an enormous time commitment and without a specialized group as long as you use all the tools at your disposal. If paladins are great tanks when undergearing content because of Ardent Defender, and the guild has a paladin willing to tank, it would be foolish not to take advantage.

Anonymous said...

So Blood Princes next?

Good idea, as this fight is all tactics and none of the "dps race". Actually about Festergut I'm more worried about the dps check, but maybe the raid dps with the icc buff is enough now. I remember the frustration when I started playing Icc, as a healer, and when actually tanks and healers did their job (tank used cooldowns, kept slowing / ap debuff on the boss) and no one messed spores, we were hitting hard enrage and it was terribly frustrating. Yes, I know why that happened back then before buffs, a t9 Mage doing 3.6k dps... seriously... unfortunately I can't convince the guild to kick him, they "offered him advice" and whatnot "but he doesn't know why his dps is so low". Sigh.

I wouldn't worry about the pungent blight on the other hand, it's predictable damage mitigated by doing spores properly and maybe resistance buffs, also you have more hp buffer on raid members thanks to the buff.

However Festergut is a tight dps check, I will be amazed though when you kill him!

I'd say Blood Princes should be perfectly doable once you develop good tactics, Valithria probably as well, if you have a holy paladin who can stack the orbs fast. Because yeah, holy paladins heal the dragon much faster than any other class.

Mahonnant said...

You use blue gear, but do you use the ICC buff or disable it ? As I did not see anything in your previous posts saying that you disabled it I'm gonna assume you don't.
ICC buff is at 20% right now, the difference between ilvl200 blue gear and ilvl 232 epic gear is approx 20%...
Congrats, you have just duplicated what every guild in ToC 10 gear did when ICC got out... This experiment is nice but it's nothing to brag about...

Fetzie said...

OK so:

2:58 combat duration and 4427967 damage done. Festergut has just over 9 million hp. You will hit the berserk timer at around 10-15% (about 1 million life) with that raid dps.

Secondly: you had bloodlust to help with healing the first 3 inhale phase. you will not have that luxury for the second one. Make sure you have a bubble/hand of sacrifice ready for the second tank. Do not underestimate having casts go through that bit faster. Maybe save the second power infusion for the paladin healer.

Manahog took 30k damage from pungent blight-needs to get more than one stack of innoculation.

For the "lololAD proc" people: it procced outside the enrage phase, shortly before the third inhale according to the log. Probably about the time the second innoculation went out or shortly after.

Your elemental shaman would get another 500-1000 dps from not stopping doing anything twice in the fight, the first time was probably running a spore out to the ranged, but at that point in the enrage phase there is no such thing to do-the final spore comes about 10 seconds into the phase.

This is purely describing what the combatlog says. I have not expressed any opinions and do not intend to. And the combat log says you will either need to find another ~7-8k raid dps from somewhere or wait for the next ICC buff.

Tell your disc priest to use their power word shield more. Divine hymn is totally overpowered for healing the raid up after pungent blight. Pre-shield the raid prior to PB going out, will soften the blow a lot.

Just some ideas to keep you guys alive and to get the boss dead.

MetaManu said...

gz on impressive achievement, i'll be sure to check for your fester kill (at 30%? ;)

@mahonnant : EVERY guild clearing ICC in ToC10 gear? when ICC got out? what are you smoking?

When ICC got out, standard gear was 245 (ToC 25). And still, lotsa guilds failed DW 10 :D

ardoRic said...

@ Fetzie

I'm the elemental shaman. The two times I stopped doing anything were probably from being hit by Vile Gas, since I wasn't in the melee camp.

It's not something we can avoid, and having the healers take Vile Gas might be a bad idea(tm).

I was actually the "beacon" for ranged spores since Koltas can blink into position and Ulatekso (hope I spelled right) can Disengage.

Andru said...

Oh dear, I seem to have trampled some egos with the AD comment.

Gevlon, comparing AD to any other defensive CD is like comparing a helicopter to a space shuttle and arguing that they both fly.

AD works in certain precise conditions. It's very powerful ONLY under these conditions. There has to be an UNFORSEEN, UNHEALABLE damage spike in order for AD to proc. The pros of that is that

a) it's not wasted at an unoportune time (when AD procs, it just prevented a wipe, no argument)

b) it's a 'deus ex machina' so it's not wrongfully held back.

The cons is that it lasts for 1 attack.

All other defensive CDs are used on FORSEEN damage spikes. Meaning that

a) they can be wasted.

b) they're not used when they should be (wrongfully 'saved for later')

What does that translate to? 3 inhales is quite long. This means that a regular CD WILL NOT COVER the entire phase, meaning that, if a person died after it ran out, either it was not used well, or it was not enough.

AD covers ONE luck slip. If it's not enough, it's a wipe regardless, but it can never be used wrongly.

For all its power AD works for only two seconds (one attack). Should a regular defensive CD save the tank from dying TWICE in its duration, it's better than AD on that particular interval.

This is why I resent your sarcastic argument that the tank used a defensive CD. He didn't. Not because he couldn't use bubblewall instead of AD proccing, but because he didn't KNOW when to use it.

Not to mention that the second tank would have had no such advantage, and the subsequent taunt rotation would find AD still on cooldown.

Ulatekso said...

@Andru Don't go by Saurfang DPS. Saurfang involves a significant amount of target switching (to suboptimally debuffed targets), hotfooting, and players spending GCDs on slowing beasts (such as Chains of Ice and Conc Shot) instead of doing damage.

On our Saurfang kill I managed close to 4000 DPS, between trapping, distracting and FD'ing to keep the beasts occupied. And admittedly, some poor play was involved as well as I had raided on my mage during the afternoon and I was still very much in a mindset where the GCD was 1 second and not 1.5 seconds :-p

On the other hand, on Festergut I managed 4900 DPS, without either flask or potion use. I am certain I can push it a little harder through better planning of cooldowns, and I'm sure the same goes for other players. In addition, tanks will be contributing quite a bit more damage, due to the 90% increased damage buff Festergut applies over time.

It will by no means be easy, but I feel that he should still be doable with the current ICC buff.

The AD proc is a bit worrysome, I must admit. While the 3-stack inhale will be covered by cooldowns, the 2-stack inhale will simply require massive healing, with Fester hitting around 18k every 1.3 seconds or so in addition to the light raid AoE damage going on. That said, I reckon armor potions will help out a tad in that regard.

@Anon(09:45) I agree, our kills were by no means perfect. I really enjoyed LDW due to the fact that the room for error was seriously low, so killing Saurfang on such a sloppy first attempt felt a bit anticlimatic. On Rotface, on the other hand, we showed that keeping your head cool even when everything seems to go down the crapper will pay off, and will allow you to end up victorious even if you don't have the gear to compensate for errors.

@The One and Only regrettably progress sites such as GuildOx and WowProgress won't accurately track us, as many of us don't have the actual achievements. For example, I missed the Marrowgar kill so I don't have Storming the Citadel. If anything you could just link to the most recent progress update on this blog. The last one has a nice image to text ratio so even the M&S in your guild should manage to read it fully.

Andru said...

@Anon

"Oh, I dunno, maybe using pots, flasks, changing out of oozekiter spec, engaging in a little buff stacking and giving the tank a DPS weapon? You know, all the things that Gevlon mentioned in his post? DPS will surely increase with practice as well. Not to mention I'm sure the goblin has other tricks up his sleeve. Goblins are sneaky."

I used the Saurfang numbers, just so you couldn't tell me 'hurrdurrflaskpots' There was no 'oozekiter spec' or 'resistance flasks' on that fight. I'm reasonably confident that all the raid was tuned for max DpS for Saurfang, which is why I used the numbers from him in the first place. Sorry.

Secondly, I'm Not 'complaining' about AD. I'm simply stating the fact that 'tank didn't die hurdur' is a misdirection. And it's a misdirection because the second tank did not get to 3 inhales to see whether he died or not due to Festergut's roflstomp. Nor will AD be available for the next taunt switch. (3rd 3stack inhale).

And I explained why you can't compare regular defensive CDs to AD. By nature of the encounter, AD is perfectly tuned to preventing the unforseen, otherwise unhealable damage spikes.

The other defensive CDs are not, namely the 'unforseen' part.

Ulatekso said...

Many replies were added while I was composing my post. I suspect most will be covered, but Mahonnant's assumption is so completely off that I feel the need to rectify it right now.

First of all, did you bother watching the videos? Maladroite did some comparisons for tank gear. When equipping a set of normal mode Ulduar gear (i219-226) and comparing them to blue gear +20% buff he would gain a handful of HP, at the cost of a significant amount of avoidance and a bit of armor.

For DPS, the situation is even more skewed. I took BiS T7 gear (Sartharion, Naxx and Malygos only), and compared it to blue gear with +30% buff, using Rawr. The blue gear came ahead by an impressive 60(!!!) DPS, less than a 1% improvement.

Also, it seems that WoWProgress does accurately track our progress. Cool.

Fetzie said...

@ArdoRic: that would explain it.

Anonymous said...

@Andru
That was my mistake, I misread that you had used the Saurfang numbers. I apologize.

In general, I'm skeptical of the comparing DPS numbers between fights. Undergeared did about 24k DPS on Festergut and about 26k DPS on Saurfang. It seems reasonable that with a "proper" attempt on Festergut, they would have gotten more than 26k DPS, though we'll never really know. I agree that there is much work to be done, but it seems inaccurate to use their Saurfang numbers to discount future Festergut attempts. We'll know better in two weeks.

Re: Ardent Defender misdirection
Yeah, maybe it was a bit of misdirection to claim that the tank didn't die. It's entirely true though. Claiming that a tank survived because of Divine Intervention to save a repair bill would be real misdirection. Maybe a caveat should have been given, but that would seem awkward. Seeing an AD proc in a log can be a worrisome sign. Certainly, seeing a tank survive due to AD inspires less confidence than if AD was not required, but it also inspires much more confidence than if AD procs and the tank still dies.

MateoG said...

@Mahonnant

I'm sure you just facerolled ICC (with ALL the other guilds) when it came out. I doubt it. You sir suck and just because your guild cannot down content that you are WAY overgeared for, don't go crying here.

Anonymous said...

I recommend you to upload the videos to warcraftmovies.com, they will get much more publicity there.

Sidhe said...

Congratulations!

I still can't believe how is it possible to do ICC in blues, I mean, didn't Blizz supposedly balance things in order to require certain gear level to do harder stuff?

How is it possible that you guys downed all these bosses in blues while many (not all) casual raiding guild have trouble getting past Saurfang =S

Either you guys are illuminated geniuses, or the average WoW playerbase has the IQ of a rat in coma (or both).

Forreststump said...

"...like comparing a helicopter to a space shuttle and arguing that they both fly."

Yes. And?

Anonymous said...

Nice project guys, pretty impressed that you did ICC bosses in about the same amount of tries that took us to beat them in ToC10/25 gear, but as you said, its not the gear that matters. (Nice DPS by the hunter BTW, as my main is a hunter)

Unfortunately, Festergut is as close to a gear check as it can get, but I'm sure you will able to do it, as you are barely below the DPS requirement, not sure about the healers mana status, but proper deffensive CD usage helps a lot, with a lucky group composition, every 3-inhaled phase can be covered with 2 deffensive cds, either from the tank, or from paladins/priests.

ardoRic said...

"Either you guys are illuminated geniuses, or the average WoW playerbase has the IQ of a rat in coma (or both)."

It doesn't take exceptional genius to grasp the mechanics of wow. It does take exceptional stupidity to fail to grasp them.

Sargeta said...

I know it might be a bad idea to do that in blue gear, but I have an idea to pump your overall dps on Fester: let one of the dps get 1 or 2 stacks of the debuff before tanks start on him.

Of course, I used to do that on my feral druid (slightly hybrid) and believe me, 10% is everything. Problem would be other classes surviving through the applications, but I'm sure its possible.

Just pointing out a way for you to squeeze more DPS other than waiting for the ICC buff.

Also, great job! I love the Undergeared and Ganking projects. Wish I could join :( (EU realms are lag-hell for me)

Maladroite said...

For those interested, I'm also uploading the fraps from our Festergut try, so people can see how exactly it went. It will probably be up tonight on Youtube.

Anonymous said...

@Mahonnant

Going strictly by ilevel, the difference is 16%, though the actual stat differential is much greater.

For a comparison let's use the Stoneskin Chestplate from TotC10 and the Sun-Emblazened Chestplate which drops from Heroic HoS. Presently, the current rage is for tanks to gem for stamina, which the 232 gear provides a 44% more stamina pre-buff add BoK and the ICC buff and the difference is even greater.

I might also add that at this point, the average tank raiding ICC would have probably geared beyond i232 and would quite likely in possession of the an i245 piece or the Frost emblem chestpiece.

Kazzel said...

@ one of the earlier anons. Paladins unless using some form of raid stacking will never do more single target hps than a shaman in top level gear. Those top hps meters on WoL and such from paladins show just how much they take advantage of the system or stack unnecessary healing if you actually look at the meter closely. The biggest reason a shaman will never beat a paladin for any other fight than dreamwalker as a 'tank' healer is because of BoL and mana issues.

Now if this applies to just blue quality gear before a shaman can really start stacking haste I'm not sure. Though I would be interested in the numbers.

ardoRic said...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIyVPnemNOU

here it is... the Festergut try.

Anonymous said...

Good job killing Saurfang and Festergut, I inked it in our guildforum :-)

Question: what's the name of the addon that points an arrow to Koltas the mighty ooze tank? Can it point to any entity?

Anonymous said...

I've been following Undergeared since you started writing about it in your blog. I have no doubts whatsoever you can do this. Everyone else leaves imagination to numbers and statistics leaving little or no wiggle room for creativity and planning. I know undergeared will down Lich King, the only thing that saddens me is that i wont be part of the run that does it because i play on American servers and rather keep it that way for now. I have no doubt you guys can do it. I know youre not doing this prject to inspire others but simply as a way to show the M&S how redundant their forms of prejudice can be but this blog has inspired me to do things of the like in our server. So keep up the awesome strategies and planning. I know it'll be difficult from this point on but no more difficult than it already has been =] I wish you good luck.

Anonymous said...

I like the corilation between the further the undergeared project progress the volume from the M&S qq'ers increases.

Anonymous said...

congratulations on the kills, again, but I'm still a nay-sayer. I'm not saying you won't beat the Lich King. In fact, as I've said before, I'm almost sure of it. It's not really a hard fight statistically, just in terms of execution. I also don't really see any of the other bosses stopping you short of the Lich King. I've never understood why some people say it's impossible. Honestly, people doing it in 245 gear without the buff might actually have been doing less DPS and had their tanks take more damage than you are now, and it got done.

The reason I'm still a nay-sayer is because I seriously doubt that downing the content on normal mode will get many people to change their minds. If you were just doing the project to beat content in blues for your own satisfaction I'd be 100% behind you, and as I've said I'm sure you'd win. However hardly any people will pay attention to a group doing ten man content five or six months after it was relevant no matter what gear they're using. How much clamor did any of you hear when a rogue solo'd a 25 man boss? Not much, a single post on MMO Champion as far as I've seen. You'll probably get more or less the same, some accolades and a handful of people wanting to know how you did it, most likely.

The reason for this is that most people have already done it on normal. If you'd done it back when few people had you might have a lot of attention right now, but it's too late for that. Casual players never pay attention to special runs unless it's content they can't do themselves. Everyone who's not a complete idiot knows that there are people who are better than them, so seeing a group do content they've already done with a few conditions tacked on doesn't mean much to them no matter how harsh the conditions are.

If you really want to make a splash you're pretty much going to have to do hard modes. Not necessarily ICC hard modes, heroic ToGC, Yogg+0 or Algalon would all work too. Until then you're basically just doing this for your own satisfaction, although there's nothing really wrong with that.

Charlie said...

Keep on proving the naysayers wrong! They're naysayers because of the simple fact that they have no skill. They think that gear score matters. For the longest time, my hunter has been around 20-30 ranked in gear score in my guild, and I am constantly in the top 3 in dps. If you know how to play, research your class, research the fights and practice, you will have success. These naysayers think you need to have 6k gearscore on every encounter so they can just "faceroll" it then complain later how easy the content is.

Go Undergeared!

Azzur said...

The reason I'm still a nay-sayer is because I seriously doubt that downing the content on normal mode will get many people to change their minds.

This post is similar to my thinking as well. The difference between this project to Gevlon's blue-Ulduar is that when blue-Ulduar was completed, not many "casuals" had completed Ulduar. With the ICC buff increasing steadily, there will be more and more casuals killing LK. Then, they will just say, "I'm sure I can do it (clear using blues) as well, it's just I don't have the time or inclination".

For the Undergeared to have been successful, the content needed to be downed when the majority of people have not.

Anonymous said...

@00:59 Anon: So the project will be proven if they down Ruby Sanct in the first one or two weeks?

Maladroite said...

@ Anonymous who wrote at 23:01.

I actually have no clue what that addon is or how the hell it knows where Koltas is running oO. It's most likely DBM since that is my only raid boss addon.

ardoRic said...

@ Anon (0:59)

I made a post on MMO-Champion (rather long) about the "hardmode" and "don't use buff" issue [1].

In short, it has to do with who is the target of the project. In long, read it.

[1] http://www.mmo-champion.com/raids-dungeons/blue-fire-vs-blue-gear/msg2931610/#msg2931610

ardoRic said...

@ Azzur

The project is not aimed at the people who can down the LK and would say "I'm sure I can also do it in blues".

The project is aimed at the people who say "I can't down the LK because my gear is not enough", and more importantly, to those who believe in this bullcrap.

French guy said...

@ the anonymous guy who said : The reason I'm still a nay-sayer is because I seriously doubt that downing the content on normal mode will get many people to change their minds.

It should at least be a mind-changer for all morons who think GearScore is a relevant indicator of people's ability/merit to participate in a raid/instance/you-name-it... and there are many such morons out there.

What's my main again? said...

I'm curious... why would you need an ooze kiting spec to begin with? Why not stick with your standard spec and have the holy paladin throw on righteous fury and kite the oozes.

That will let you keep extra dps on the boss and you have the paladin taking care of the cleansing.

Additionally you could have your tank kite the ooze and tank rotface... which is how we like to do the heroic mode on 10.

I suppose it ultimately doesn't make a difference but if the goal is to put more dps into rotface those 2 options seem to be the way to go. Either way having the hunter kite the ooze probably would have been a higher dps increase since he doesn't suffer as much from moving being able to stutter step auto shots in. I suppose you like to take the more challenging jobs for yourself which I respect.

Anonymous said...

@Those who complain about the buff making blue gear as good as TOC25 gear.

That is not true, not one bit. Long ago during the first few months of WotLK, my mage did 4 to 5k dps on naxx 10 gear. It means that even with the 20% damage buff, blue gear can't even compare to naxx 10 gear, let alone TOC25 gear.

Mahonnant said...

To answer to my contradictors :
@MetaManu : what I said is "you have just duplicated what every guild in ToC 10 gear did when ICC got out". It's the comparison that interested me : a ToC10 geared roster is mostly equivalent to a blue-geared roster with 20% buff. OK I skipped the part where a ToC10 roster would have had access only to the first wing at first.

What I don't like (and it's not the first time with Gevlon's blogs) is the blatant intellectual dishonesty of saying "we raid in blue gear and pwn all those guilds out there". Please do that without the buff and I will hail you...

Any semi-competent raider knows that normal mode ICC was crap until maybe Lanathel but that's pure DPS check, Putricide was the first real skill check, Sindra / LK being on another level altogether. You are raiding content that is months old and patting yourself on the back because you do it "in blue gear", conveniently not mentionning the slight matter of a 20% buff that puts you almost on par with any PUG that begins ICC.

@MateoG : yes we did indeed faceroll normal ICC (except for Putri, Sindra and LK, those required a bit more work). A lot of guilds did that, quite frankly until LK nothing came close to challenging us beyond one (maybe two for Putri/Sindra) night(s) of attempts... And my guild is not even what I would describe as good, we are a regular run of the mill raiding guild (10/12 HM)... The good ones are the ones that did every HM the first week they opened, that we could not have done and those guys need every upgrade they can put their hand on...

What the Undergeared project has achieved is just remind every one that it could be done, which I had no doubt about to begin with... What I have problems with is the constant boasting about it and the superiority complex that every post here convey...

Anonymous said...

@ ardoRic @ Anon (0:59, me)

I know very well what the target of the Undergeared project is, I've been following it (off and on) since the beginning. I'd love for it to succeed, change people's perceptions, and have a lot more people raiding and beating normal mode content. Maybe then we'd even see more heroic mode only challenges, like Algalon, for those of us that like hard modes.

My point is that with what you're doing now you're unlikely to ever reach your stated audience. There's simply too much room for people, when confronted with what you've done, to say something like 'Oh my friend did that five months ago without perfect gear, doing it with the buff must be even easier'. Basically you're setting as your goal something that almost all raiders have done already, most of them long ago. If you really want to get people to pay attention to you it would probably be much more effective to set your sites on some older hard modes first. Algalon or Yogg+0 would be ideal choices because very few people ever did them, so there's still room for people to be impressed with the accomplishment.

Anonymous said...

Nice to see your project still going gevlon, Gl with that in the future.

But...

a) Saurfang is still the 1st wing that has been pugged since pretty much day one by people maybe not in blue gear but with similiar dps and healing xD.

b) Rotface has been proven to be "soloable" or "solo-tank-able without any healer what so ever", DK in mostly 264 gear can "solo" rotface all the way to his enrage making him pretty much the biggest joke of a boss ever. Then you need to kite well and you are pretty much done.

Still, grats and looking forward to Festergut, now that will be something.

Aaron said...

Haters gonna hate. :)

Grats!

fedaykin98 said...

Clearly, what Mahonnant is really upset about is that there's not a website of this blog's popularity that is regularly extolling how Awesomesauce his Awesomesauce guild is.

To many of the Anons: The buff is irrelevant, because everyone has it. They never said that they were proving they could clear ICC with no buff; they said that those who are making excuses for raid failures have no reason to do so, other than lack of skill. Those excuses are being made right now, even with the 20% buff. PUG leaders are requiring high GS right now, even though this project is proving that a high GS isn't necessary.

The project is supposed to be showing that M&S folks have no excuses for unsuccessful raiding, but it seems it's also exposing how many of the HC raiding community can't read.

Mahonnant said...

"Algalon or Yogg+0 would be ideal choices because very few people ever did them, so there's still room for people to be impressed with the accomplishment."
There is absolutely no (as in zero, nada, zilch) way to do either of those hard modes in blue gear.
Normal modes are one thing, some Hard modes are really *hard mode* and those two fall in that category. Yogg 0 has a very high DPS requirement and Algalon is a tank check much more drastic than anything else... And no 20% buff there.

Anonymous said...

Good god to all the retarded people posting here. Get some skills and stop your fucking whining because you cant clear ICC25 normal with the current 20 % buff. GOOD GOD to whine about ardent defender procs and whatnot, it's not like any other normal guild with full icc gear would use a paladin tank and proc ardent defender? How retarded can you be?

Dragon said...

LFM NAXX MUST HAZ 5.5K GS :)

Just kidding. Big congratulations for your (slightly) insane accomplishments!

You're pulling off what other guilds struggle with in epic gear. I admit, I haven't read all the posts or the rest of the blog, just came here from tankspot, but I'd *really* love it if you could perhaps post tips, strats, etc.

Why? Because you all obviously know your stuff to an extent that many others don't come close to. Any tips would more than likely be extremely helpful to the "less blessed" :) (And I could shut some of my lesser 'friends' up that just keep QQing)

Good luck on the rest of ICC, even if you may have to wait for the next round of buffs.

/salute!