Update: the ganking project ended, do not apply.
Since there are no weekend posts anymore, I use the space here to post the rules and guidelines of the guild both to specify it to members and wannabe members, and to show the readers how and why we work.
Recruitment is permanent. You can join any time.
Invitation: everyone gets invited, unless his character name is retarded or offensive (or has no clue what kind of guild we are just wants a tag). "Offensive" means a term that is dirty or racist or something like that IRL. "Retarded" will be defined below. This is a crucial rule, and I think one of the largest mistake of good guilds. "Applications" can be copy&pasted, and besides terrible morons, everyone can act like an intelligent being during an interview. So the application process is just extra work for everyone, unable to catch the non-complete-retards but great to exclude those who are not really good in expressing themselves or just not too good with English.
Kicking: anyone who violates the below rules gets warning(s) and if does not fix his error, kicked. I see it the second biggest problem of guilds, in connection with the first. If you got in (and survived initiation period), you can do practically anything (besides really terrible behavior) and get away with it. Not here. I don't care if you are a founding member and a good player, if you violate the rules, you are out.
Retarded behavior: if you act this way, you're out! It mostly apply to the guild chat, as it is the place where retarded behavior hits the guild. If you like to tea-bag ganked hordies, it's not punished, despite it's completely stupid and childish. The guild chat on the other hand is the main information exchange of the guild and must be protected. So "lol", "rolf", "ftw", "ffs", "I pwned som n00b", AlTeRnaTiNgCaSe, insults, dirty words (#$%@#$%#) and terrible grammar are not tolerated. Of course in a chat I don't expect perfectly formed sentences, especially since English is not native language for many, but "can som1 mak me som enchats" does not fly. So I'd like to implement rule #1 from EJ.
Answering to ganked hordies in an offensive manner. If the ganked hordie makes a lvl1 ally and start whispering you, you must not be offensive with him, even if he is extremely offensive with you. We don't sink to the level of crybabies. Simply inform him about the option of the server transfer and /ignore. Or, be completely polite and screenshot the conversation. The commenters responded very badly to the end of "morons of the week", I might start a new column, "crybabies of the week".
IRL things: (aka "meg fox is soo hot lol"). No way! We are from different backgrounds and here for one and only thing: we like to play this game. We may have different purposes (like I am fighting the social behavior), but that does not belong to the guild chat. You may like soccer. Or movies. Or Megan Fox. But others may not and chatting about these are pointless spam to them at best, and alienating, excluding environment at worst. So don't! Of course you can talk about whatever you want in party chat, whisper or create some own channel. I don't care if you make the /megfoxtits channel if that's your heart's desire. But don't force other 50 people to read it.
No gz! As you progress in the game, you perform great, unique achievements, like reaching lvl 10, get a mount, or a pet. Blizzard decided to inform us from these. It's annoying enough on its own, but also useful as it keeps us updated where your progress stands (unfortunately there is no such option as "display only achievements that a brain-dead baboon cannot get"). However increasing the litter on chat by 10 lines of "gratz" is absolutely unnecessary and annoying. If you find the achievement really great, congratulate in whisper!
Absolutely no drama! If you don't like someone, don't play with him. No one forces you to group with him. You can even put him on ignore. But if you start "Jhonny said bad things about me" or "Melanie did not pass [item] for me when I asked", you are out! This is a very strongly enforced rule, extreme cases can result in kick without warning. If you think someone in the guild harmed you (harming means causing damage, saying things does not count, we are not in kinder garden), come to me in whisper, and I may fix the situation (or more likely tell you to just /ignore him). You can get kicked for making drama even if you were right! I mean if you spam the gchat "Melanie warlock ninjaed my melee dagger", you and Melanie both go.
No terrible playing! You can be new to the game or the class or the role. You may need more time practicing. We are tolerant and helpful for gaming mistakes. But you must improve, and this improvement is your responsibility and yours only. Repeating the error again and again after someone pointed it out is no go. Neither gemless-enchantless lvl80 gear. Even better leveling pieces deserve gems/enchants. Damaging below the healer, not being able to use core class abilities (rogue unable to kick spellcaster) are no go. If you are unsure, ask, read, practice! Refusing helpful advice in a defensive manner gets you kicked ("don't tell me how to play").
No communist collective! You are not required to travel to the other end of the world just to craft something to a guildy. You are not required to craft for a guildy free, since leveling your prof had costs and opportunity cost of not having one more gatherer prof. You are not required to pass BoE items to a guildy. You are not required to remove your item from the AH and sell it to a guildy for discount. Your guildy has no monopoly rights on any segment of the AH. You are absolutely not required to boost a guildy. Of course you can still do it. But discuss it in whisper. Asking for any of the above on /gchat is forbidden. If you seek a crafter, offer him fee. He will most probably reject it, but it is his right to take it.
Ganking guideline: you can of course gank lowbies for fun. But that does not count. To give the players personal incentive, I will post ganking hall of fame, where World PvP HK - World PvP Deaths * 20 is listed. At the start prepare for some negative numbers. If you move in larger group, everyone of you get the HK (like the timbermaw rep), and the chance of death decrease.
Hi/bye guideline: Everyone can see if you are online or not. If they are especially interested, they can switch on an interface option to notify them if guildies come online/offline. No need to spam the chat with 10 lines of hi/bye! So if you write "Hi all!" and get no response, they don't hate you, they just don't spam the gchat.
Alt guideline: Complete your main before you start an alt. If you changed your mind and want other class, quit with the old one. The reason is simple: I don't want to inflate the list on the armory with zillion alts. One char = one active player. The same thing explains why everyone kicked after a month inactivity. If you just had to leave the game for whatever reason, you can come back when you are active again.
This post will be augmented when new problems emerge. Feel free to ask and discuss.
Since there are no weekend posts anymore, I use the space here to post the rules and guidelines of the guild both to specify it to members and wannabe members, and to show the readers how and why we work.
Recruitment is permanent. You can join any time.
Invitation: everyone gets invited, unless his character name is retarded or offensive (or has no clue what kind of guild we are just wants a tag). "Offensive" means a term that is dirty or racist or something like that IRL. "Retarded" will be defined below. This is a crucial rule, and I think one of the largest mistake of good guilds. "Applications" can be copy&pasted, and besides terrible morons, everyone can act like an intelligent being during an interview. So the application process is just extra work for everyone, unable to catch the non-complete-retards but great to exclude those who are not really good in expressing themselves or just not too good with English.
Kicking: anyone who violates the below rules gets warning(s) and if does not fix his error, kicked. I see it the second biggest problem of guilds, in connection with the first. If you got in (and survived initiation period), you can do practically anything (besides really terrible behavior) and get away with it. Not here. I don't care if you are a founding member and a good player, if you violate the rules, you are out.
Retarded behavior: if you act this way, you're out! It mostly apply to the guild chat, as it is the place where retarded behavior hits the guild. If you like to tea-bag ganked hordies, it's not punished, despite it's completely stupid and childish. The guild chat on the other hand is the main information exchange of the guild and must be protected. So "lol", "rolf", "ftw", "ffs", "I pwned som n00b", AlTeRnaTiNgCaSe, insults, dirty words (#$%@#$%#) and terrible grammar are not tolerated. Of course in a chat I don't expect perfectly formed sentences, especially since English is not native language for many, but "can som1 mak me som enchats" does not fly. So I'd like to implement rule #1 from EJ.
Answering to ganked hordies in an offensive manner. If the ganked hordie makes a lvl1 ally and start whispering you, you must not be offensive with him, even if he is extremely offensive with you. We don't sink to the level of crybabies. Simply inform him about the option of the server transfer and /ignore. Or, be completely polite and screenshot the conversation. The commenters responded very badly to the end of "morons of the week", I might start a new column, "crybabies of the week".
IRL things: (aka "meg fox is soo hot lol"). No way! We are from different backgrounds and here for one and only thing: we like to play this game. We may have different purposes (like I am fighting the social behavior), but that does not belong to the guild chat. You may like soccer. Or movies. Or Megan Fox. But others may not and chatting about these are pointless spam to them at best, and alienating, excluding environment at worst. So don't! Of course you can talk about whatever you want in party chat, whisper or create some own channel. I don't care if you make the /megfoxtits channel if that's your heart's desire. But don't force other 50 people to read it.
No gz! As you progress in the game, you perform great, unique achievements, like reaching lvl 10, get a mount, or a pet. Blizzard decided to inform us from these. It's annoying enough on its own, but also useful as it keeps us updated where your progress stands (unfortunately there is no such option as "display only achievements that a brain-dead baboon cannot get"). However increasing the litter on chat by 10 lines of "gratz" is absolutely unnecessary and annoying. If you find the achievement really great, congratulate in whisper!
Absolutely no drama! If you don't like someone, don't play with him. No one forces you to group with him. You can even put him on ignore. But if you start "Jhonny said bad things about me" or "Melanie did not pass [item] for me when I asked", you are out! This is a very strongly enforced rule, extreme cases can result in kick without warning. If you think someone in the guild harmed you (harming means causing damage, saying things does not count, we are not in kinder garden), come to me in whisper, and I may fix the situation (or more likely tell you to just /ignore him). You can get kicked for making drama even if you were right! I mean if you spam the gchat "Melanie warlock ninjaed my melee dagger", you and Melanie both go.
No terrible playing! You can be new to the game or the class or the role. You may need more time practicing. We are tolerant and helpful for gaming mistakes. But you must improve, and this improvement is your responsibility and yours only. Repeating the error again and again after someone pointed it out is no go. Neither gemless-enchantless lvl80 gear. Even better leveling pieces deserve gems/enchants. Damaging below the healer, not being able to use core class abilities (rogue unable to kick spellcaster) are no go. If you are unsure, ask, read, practice! Refusing helpful advice in a defensive manner gets you kicked ("don't tell me how to play").
No communist collective! You are not required to travel to the other end of the world just to craft something to a guildy. You are not required to craft for a guildy free, since leveling your prof had costs and opportunity cost of not having one more gatherer prof. You are not required to pass BoE items to a guildy. You are not required to remove your item from the AH and sell it to a guildy for discount. Your guildy has no monopoly rights on any segment of the AH. You are absolutely not required to boost a guildy. Of course you can still do it. But discuss it in whisper. Asking for any of the above on /gchat is forbidden. If you seek a crafter, offer him fee. He will most probably reject it, but it is his right to take it.
Ganking guideline: you can of course gank lowbies for fun. But that does not count. To give the players personal incentive, I will post ganking hall of fame, where World PvP HK - World PvP Deaths * 20 is listed. At the start prepare for some negative numbers. If you move in larger group, everyone of you get the HK (like the timbermaw rep), and the chance of death decrease.
Hi/bye guideline: Everyone can see if you are online or not. If they are especially interested, they can switch on an interface option to notify them if guildies come online/offline. No need to spam the chat with 10 lines of hi/bye! So if you write "Hi all!" and get no response, they don't hate you, they just don't spam the gchat.
Alt guideline: Complete your main before you start an alt. If you changed your mind and want other class, quit with the old one. The reason is simple: I don't want to inflate the list on the armory with zillion alts. One char = one active player. The same thing explains why everyone kicked after a month inactivity. If you just had to leave the game for whatever reason, you can come back when you are active again.
This post will be augmented when new problems emerge. Feel free to ask and discuss.
31 comments:
Well, at least you got one thing right.
Most well-run guilds are both a enlightened dictatorship and have a well-written coherent set of rules with no gray areas.
While I still think your goals for this project are non-existant, the means to be put in practice are reasonably well-thought out.
With the direction this game is heading (instances) world pvp has all but vanished. Players can queue from Dalaran for dungeons or battlegrounds, get summons to raids so they never have to set foot outside. So I have my doubts as to how much you will change anything.
As to your rules, if your goal is to get the horde to leave, then pissing them off is a great way to do that. "Tea bagging" should be encouraged because the M&S will take it as a personal insult to have that happen to them. Corpse camping, outnumbered ganking, low level kills, mind controlling into lava, thunderstorm off bridges, any underhanded tactic that is not against the ToS will get them to leave faster.
ZOMG more rules!
What a total surprise.
Really, if people don't know you well enough by now, they never will.
Good rules are a must for a fine guild. Such a project with an idea to go against a mass of horde is a big thing to chew, good luck!
Respect for taking up such a challenge.
Would be nice if someone would record the ganking :)
With rules like that, I almost wish I had a EU account so I could join. The no communist collective one seems most useful if your goal is to have no drama and strengthen the AH. Far too often people seem to regard guildies as free labor or worse, forced labor. This will get people out of their little bubble.
In response to Drathas's comment... "So I have my doubts as to how much you will change anything." The answer is griefing {as defined by WoWWiki).
Here are some examples (Gev mentioned most of them already so this is for the casual reader).
Example 1- Wintergrasp held during peak times. Trust me this will be frustrating to them, I hear people crying about this all the time.
Example 2- (My personal favorite) Ganking people trying to farm materials and do dailies.
Example 3- Killing auctioneers and bankers.
Sure you can raid low level zones (setting a trap for incoming 80's at Crossroads comes to mine), but that probably wont cause much grief.
Being creative (and a jerk) is what this blog is about. Lets hope it changes what people think about "pvp".
What would your responce be to somone asking for somone to take something of the AH and then sell it to a guildy for say 2.5% less? seller gets more, buyer pays less
So basically treat everyone in your guild as a complete stranger in a very strict, almost military, environment where all you should be doing is working to achieve "your" goal and not have any kind of fun or build personal relationships of any sort. Got it. Sounds like a blast.
@last anon
Perhaps you missed the part where membership and participation in said guild is non-compulsory. When you play in someone else's sandbox, you play by their rules.
I agree with a most of your principles and disagree with most of your specifics, but this is a very rational group of guidlines. Let me complement you. Full disclosure is a good thing; no guild is right for everyone and it is less noise if GMs are upfront and work for a specific culture, whatever that is.
BTW, did I recall you saying there was no Guild Bank resources? If so, might I suggest adding that to your guidelines? "Every item in a GB is a future drama"; certainly GBs do attract the leeches. (Actually, nothing in GB > 1-5g might be more appropriate for your leveling stage.)
I still do not understand why you don't just play EVE Online. But this is far more about attitudes and standards than PvP. Regardless, good luck.
In terms of effeciency I would suggest focusing more on hit and run tactics. This insures that the encounter is on your terms and leaves the uncertainty of if and when you target will be attack next.
I would also reccommend anything you can do to interrupt raid formation. Killing one person trying to get to a raid annoys 10-25 people at once.
Re: "take something of the AH and then sell it to a guildy for say 2.5% less"
I believe you pay the deposit cost when you list it and it is refunded when it sells. So it depends on the item for the ratio of deposit versus commission. Which would determine whether delisting, losing the deposit and avoiding the commission is better or worse for the seller.
Offering 97.5% of what they would list it for is a win for both sides.
I understand the desire for no "l33t-speak" . but I am not the worlds fastest typist, so I really like abbreviations to reduce the typing, even if they are not good grammar or proper words.
I like the general idea, however, the restrictions on free speech seem a little over the top. You dont want to have drama or anything unless someone does something to 'harm' another guild (remember - still a game). Saying words isnt harm. Yet at the same time, you will gkick anyone who says 'lol' or 'rofl'. Saying that doesnt harm anyone. In fact, using 'lol' is frequently the quickest and most efficient way to express amusement in a text-based environment.
Im pretty sure your dictatorial control of speech and ideology will end up in you culling people based on an unwillingness to conform to your social standards rather than ability to raid dungeons in blue gear.
That might not be your intent, but I can almost guarantee thats what will happen. I have never seen a top gamer who doesn't type 'lol' sometimes.
Anonomous above me:
It's not like we don't talk about "fun stuff" at all . We merely avoid doing it in /guild so that people don't have to read messages irrelevant to their interests.
Yesterday, some of us made a /offtopic channel for those who wanted to talk about "banned topics", such as f.ex. fotball. This way, we can still talk about non-WoW-topics without littering the guild chat.
I think that if /offtopic got mentioned in either the guild rules here and/or in guild info, people like the anonymous above me wouldn't be scared off, and existing members would know where to speak freely.
@Chris: saying one "lol" is not harm. But of 50+ people are writing nonsense, the gchat becomes barrens chat. People stop reading it and won't see important information. It's simply spamming.
@Draturg: text changed to clarify this.
I'm torn as a Hordie and as a person who believes that a MMO should be more of a social environment. However I am also an avid fan of PvP/Strategic destruction and I'm really interested in this.
Besides the rules and the start-up, have you considered any strategies as of yet?
Take for instance outside of Icecrown Citadel. Because of it's phased nature, you can have teams on both (and multiple) phases knocking out groups who are fully made and present; yet are phased away from each other. My own 10 man raid has at least 4 people at any given time in a different phase than me.
Nothing would piss me off more than not being able to rely on my raid mates to come to my aid.
And you can be more devious as well with proper use of the WoW forums. Simple posts such as "Hello, Sholazar Basin" with a quick message inside saying something completely non-threatening. Yet as time goes by and they start to correlate those posts with being completely destroyed; the morals of the heavy forums go'ers will crumble and that will also have a lasting impression.
I'm sure you probably have more ideas that your keeping at bay for a while; but any you could share would make for an interesting post.
You might even learn something in /offtopic. For instance, yesterday people were discussing hypothetic turtles that are able to crack nuts with their shells.
Anyway, I like the /g policy. Keeps the channel clear from nonsense.
I hope you are not the one running your guild. You have an awful anti-social attitude when it comes to a group of ppl. Basically from the gist of what I got your guild will have no communication, as talking in guild chat seems to be a no no. How long do you really think people are going to hang around in silence in order to fulfill your aspirations of showing the horde what for?
I think you are greatly overlooking the community aspect which makes a guild work and last.
If the players are the bricks, communication is the mortar.
I fail to see your point when you say that stuff like "lol" isn't allowed in guild chat and then you say that your fight against social behaviour does not belong in the guild chat.
However, all the other rules seem quite ordinary, as any good guild definitely has similar ones.
@ Gevlon - Do you have a forum for this project yet?
If not we could (and really should too) setup a quick free solution just to organize some things: Pin the rules, itemrequests for people who transfer, BG evenings & meetings and so on...
For the one wondering how's the social aspect of the guild and gchat. Well you'd be wondered as there's a lot of gchat, and it's real fun. If you ask a class/game related question is answered real quick with useful information no "L2P asswipe lolololol" kind of nonsense. And guess what....
We chat!!!! We have a good time!!! we gank horde!!!
Well some of us do. In my case my main is in a US server so I'm leveling from 1 with no heirloom or gold, and WG even with a bunch of idiotic horde players in the other team gets real hard when they have two or tree level 19 players and you're eleven. That didn't stop me from kicking some level 14 ass tho.
We got a 60 something pally that kicks level 80 ass, That's been real nice.
We've had fun with idiots asking for guild invites when their characters have idiotic names like "makeanalt"
Why you haven't joined yet?
Sounds like a world away from Tam's guild Single Abstract Noun.
The chat is non-stop and we would all have been gkicked by now under Gevlon's rules! :D
Wondering if you have a plan to combat spies.
I might actually have to dust off my Paladin, get him Horde side, server-transferred, re-start my account and join up.
Sounds like a bloody good time.
i hereby move that "/megfoxtits" become the official "social" channel for the guild.
Wish i was on EU for this. ;)
I see some americans decided to join.
How many is that?
The reason im asking is because I live in China myself, so the GMT+8 timezone would make it hard for me to gank with other people, unless there are americans ;)
recruitment question,
Is it acceptable to transfer a below-lv70 char, loaded with heirlooms?
@Piedie: yes
Gevlon, I am a big fan of your blog, I wanted to say that these guild rules are completely acceptable. You do not need Guild litter as in "rofl i just pwned that nub" "omg this stupid nub pally using his bubble heal, so gay" is not needed, I also see how socials would take offense to these rules because they can't get all the attention of the guild and "have a good time" while
distracting the whole guild and reducing it's progress speed. I also see that the rules of names are completely acceptable. Some people have the most stupid names in the world. And this just leaves another distraction to the guild. I also agree on how if you create drama in the guild you are kicked. This is a very well thought out rule, I've been in a lot of guilds in my early World of Warcraft days and see how guilds are torn apart from drama and talk amongst guildies. This is a very well thought out set of rules that make complete sense to a higher thinking individual. Those who are lower on that type of list, will never be able to understand the concept of these rules and how they affect a guild as a whole. The only bad thing is about this is that I cannot join this guild, this seems like the perfect guild for me and I am on a US server. So unfortunately I cannot partake in this type of guild or it's raiding experience's. Keep up the good work and just an idea, what if you get goldcap on about 6 other characters and delivered that as guild fund. So you could basically power level all your professions to max, this way you can find some odd ways to make gold. But I'm going off topic, Good set of rules and a few questions...
1) How far do you plan to get with only blues?
2) What do you plan to do next expansion?
3) Have you ever thought to pay a guild probably about 4 thousand gold a week to have them boost you through raids?
I really like your guild rules.
I only disagree with your view on alts and think that around 3 alts can be a good thing in that you gain a certain understanding of other classes that you can only acquire if you play that class. But in regard to guild memberships I have usually been setting a limit of one alt.
The recruiting problem that you mention is well known, but it need not be a real problem: Spending a little more time on interviewing people in-game, person to person - and maybe also out of the game, via Ventrillo or TeamSpeak or other, or by Message programs (Y!M, MSN-Live, or Google Chat) - is time well spend and will fairly quickly rule out the kind of players you don't want in your guild. It isn't fulproof, but a trial period will usually provide what's needed to know finally if a player is right for the guild.
One can wonder why more guilds haven't already implemented the set of rules that you list. I've always attempted to establish them myself, but then, most players aren't mature, or they don't have to care about the social aspect because they're playing with close friends and/or family, they are officers of their guild, or as guild members they simply keep the social part to themselves and generally don't engage much in guild-chat.
*******
Earlier this evening I sent you a short line saying the following:
"Let the little kids of play come unto Alliance and say in allied awe: "Wow, this is a Game of Blizz! Let "real-life" lovers have S&M, M&S have ganking!".
This was a mistake, and I apologize!
*******
Sincerely, Zhawq.
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