Greedy Goblin

Thursday, February 4, 2010

Cheap consumables

It's considered normal, to have the best consumables on progression raids. On other content, usually noting is used. However there are other consumables, much cheaper, perfect for farmraids, harder HCs, BGs and faster leveling.

At first I'd mention these lvl 35 healing and mana potions. They cost 5s and 1 honor. If you buy similar potions or their materials in the AH, that's about a gold. Potions are the best defense for any low-levels against a bad pull. Rather pay 5s than a corpserun. The honor can be gained in any battleground, you get 100+ for a match.

If you are a mana user and not a mage, you need to drink. Standard vendor drink cost 4.4G/stack. The PvP version costs 1G + 12 honor.

But the big shot here is the lvl70 buff food and flasks. The WotLK spiced caster food gives 46 spellpower + 40 stamina. The completed food is 4-5G on AH, the materials are 3G. However you can buy golden fish sticks (23SP + 23 spi) for 40-50s.

Flask of 125 spellpower? That will be 35G! Flask of 80 spellpower (alternative)? You can get materials for 5G.

The same thing with gems. Runed cardinal ruby has 23 spellpower. If we consider it 100%, then runed scarlet ruby has 83%, runed bloodstone has 61%, and their prices are 230G, 60G, 8G. The smaller ones are perfect during leveling, to offspec or to an alt.

Being unenchanted until "final" gear is common, despite you can get low level enchants for very cheap, and they can make up their price in leveling time.

It's a very simple advice, but can save lot of gold. Unless you go for hard mode progression, you don't need the best available items. You can buy bit worse, but much cheaper items.


Jeanie said...

Aren't those lvl 35 potions only usable in BG ? Also you can only have 10 of them at a time, so it's rather slightly inconvenent to restock.

Gevlon said...

Oops, wrong link, fixed.

And no, 10 should be enough. Potions are for emergency, and not everyday use. If you have so many emergencies that you have to restock often, than restocking is your smallest problem.

Anonymous said...

Isn't buying stuff for honor just another I farmed it so it's free?

You could have spend that time battlegrounding on the AH, making more then enough gold to pay the best possible items. Or at least close to the best.

Gevlon said...

Don't be silly. Honor is so cheap that people buy 150G gems for 10000 honor, so 1 honor is about 1.5silver.

Gusztav said...

As a dedicated PVPer I can tell that honor is cheap if you don't want the resilience gear, and it's REALLY expensive when you get 1200 honor for a 15 min BG and then you were lucky and the upgrades usually cost 40-60k honor.

But if you're like 95% of wow players and don't really do organized pvp in BiS gear (especially while leveling), then honor is "free"

notos said...

you can also get lots of honor even without pvp just by buying Honor with Stone Keeper Shards

David said...

Actually you could just take some stone keepers shards and trade them in for 2k honor to any character on your server.

Anonymous said...

He was talking about the time spent, not the gold value of honor.

Let's assume that you can get 10k honor/hour. This rate is exceedingly generous, outside of PvP daily quests, the honor earned by just doing BGs is absymal, and can stoop quite low in a string of losses.

That means 150 g/hour. The problem is that PvP is not done to farm money (At least I hope that it isn't) but is regarded as a 'fun' activity, much like say, raiding.

Which raises an interesting problem. If you spend time to go to BGs, when you should be leveling, you're wasting time that is not really offset by the potions you get from it.

Now, I'm not exactly sure of the XP rate gained while doing BGs, but it occurs to me that it's easier to just level and use the money that is literally thrown at you while questing to buy some consumables, than taking the arsebackwards route of spending time to get potions that are supposed to save you time.

Jana said...

"but it occurs to me that it's easier to just level and use the money that is literally thrown at you while questing to buy some consumables"

Up till Outland, money really is not thrown at you while questing... you get just some silver as quest rewards during your level 30ties. Of course, if you have picked some gathering profession along the way, you are better off.

The point of the post is that every little thing adds up. Also if you are not a heavy pvp-er then honour is a resource that just sits there.

This tip is more for people, who are new to a server. If your server's highest char really is level 35 and you are not heavy into raw merchanting, few honour is way easier for you to get then gold for overpriced pots in AH.

If you are making more gold than you can spend, then sure, go for it, gem every Outland blue you get while leveling with epic gems, put Berserking on a weapon you gonna replace tomorrow, etc. Nobody can stop you to have your blast of fun :)

Espoire said...

I agree with the previous commenters, the PvP potions aren't worth the time spent to go get them. Those fish sticks though? Those are golden. I'm going to have a field day carrying those to my AH.

Anonymous said...

That it's cheap, doesn't change the idea. It's still an I farmed it so it's free idea.

It's not free. You had to invest time to get those honor points. Sure you might have been having fun doing it, but it's still not free, as you could have spent that time doing something else. So even if the honor is just a side effect from doing a fun activity, it's not free.

I don't understand how that can be silly.

Tarrke said...

Assuming this situation :
I'm levelling a cac toon and as I'm experimented (read here full of confidance in my skills, too much confidance) I get too many mobs at the same time. This is really the only case i can see where having a pot may save my life while levelling. Or getting a patrol while fighting, but it's the same.

So I need pot. Not having a pot would cost me:
- repairs: levelling stuff, no too expensive.
- time: I have to corps run or buy a rez, that's about 1 min to 10 (depends on the map, where is the body, is the place safe to rez and regen, regen time, etc.).

So having bought a pot could save me 10 minutes, more likely 1 minute every time I do a bad aggro.

What is the cost of that pot ? If it's my first toon, then it's not so hudge. I assume every one get one time in a BG so every one should have 50 honor, for fun, not for free, but you should have this currency in your wallet. Then if you get this, let's spend it for usefull mats don't you think ? If this is not my first toon, then I'll just give my toon some honor throught the Stone Keeper Shards mechanic and then I get my pots for say 1 minute of my time.

Investing in pots while levelling is always a good trade. This is an alternative to the simpliest (in mind) farm some herb and craft some pots for your current levelling char.

I don't think you can say that 1 honor is about 1.5 silver. If there was a game mechanic that allows you to buy honor for gold, or allow you to get gold from honor (without getting stuff from honor and then selling it) then we would be able to say that. All we can say is that some think that 1.5 silver for 1 honor is a good trade, and then make the trade. But it's not for every one.

10k honnor for a gem is a good trade, as i have honor that i don't know what to do with and i need gems. But 150po for a gem is a bad trade for me. I value my honor less than that, so i prefer buy a gem with my honor than buying it wih my golds.

Gevlon said...

Honor is cheap NOT because "you farmed it for free". It's cheap because you can't spend it on the market.

On low levels you can't buy gear from honor, as low level pvp gear needs marks. If you choose to get marks, you get more honor than you need.

You can't buy anything with your excess honor, so it's "cheap".

The only exception is being (planning to be) HC PvP-er, and saving every honor point to those BiS PvP items at 80.

Also these PvP-ers would never "waste" 10K honor for a lousy gem.

To the other 97% of the playerbase, honor is
- the buyproduct of playing BG for fun
- is practically useless to them, and can't spend it on anything.

Anonymous said...

Seriously, you ARE being silly complaining about the time spent "farming" this.

Lets say you want 50 potions. Just queue now and then while playing the AH, and try to get into a game that is underway. Afk'ing (not /afk...doh!) and autorunning into the battle while you go to the toilet should net you 50 honor which goes a long way in terms of potions...

Using stone shards to buy honor for this on the other hand is more questionable...

Okrane S. said...

Dont forget that you get honor for killing the random hordes you come across...

Zan said...

One can take your stone keepers shards and trade them in for BoA honor granting tokens. You can get these while running your daily heroic for lolfrostbadges or other things.

Anonymous said...

You also get quite a bit of honor from the weekly VoA-10/25. That plus one WG on patch day is plenty.

On my server, Dalaran Clam Chowder (well, the clam meat) is dirt cheap as well. So many fishers trying for siren's tears, etc. The market is flooded with the meat.

pugnaciouspriest said...

So wish people would try.. I completely understand when a blue gem is 8 gold and an epic is 160 - but its showing that they tried!

Brian said...

I currently value my in-game time at a rate of 25 silver / second. If I get 900 honor in one fifteen minute BG, that’s one honor per second, or 25 silver per honor point.

So theoretically, a stack of 10 pots from honor costs you 50 silver + 2.5 gold (10 honor) + (round trip time in seconds to vendor * 25 silver). Let’s say it’s a 60 sec round trip from AH. That stack of 10 pots cost me 25.5 gold. Or still 23 gold if “honor is free”.

These are theoretical numbers, but for me, unless I happen to be near the vendor in my other travels it’s typically not worthwhile. This is why I buy many vendor-sold items off the AH. I guess I’m just S&M though. I’ve seen several times where I’d be posterized as a Saturday moron with this philosophy.

The biggest variable in most of these suggestions is the value of personal time. If you value your time less, then these tips are more viable.

Anonymous said...

On my raiding main I spare no expense. It helps that I have JC, and an enchanter to make the expensive items at cost. It really REALLY helps that my main is an alchemist and my flasks last 2 hours.

On my alts, I always use blue gems, and cheeper versions of enchants.

Anonymous said...

Honor is cheap. The required honor for a stack of water is merely a roadkill of an Alliance / Horde on your way to do something else. Well on PvP servers that is.

Also remember that each boss of VoA also give a little honor when killed.

For all intents and purposes, the honor for the PvP water and PvP potions is a residial currency.

Brian said...

For me, honor is too valuable to be spent in lieu of gold. If I want a particular pvp item I am going to spend a significant amount of time to earn that honor. Therefore, the opportunity cost of that time makes that item a significant investment.

I don’t understand how people, particularly on a goblin forum, can actually suggest that honor is cheap.

To put numbers to it, if a BG nets me on average 900 honor (considering wins AND losses) and costs you 15 minutes (neglecting usable queue time of course), I am making 3600 honor per hour. Therefore, to buy an item costing 64.8k honor would cost me 18 hours of play time. At 25 silver/second, this item has an opportunity cost of 16,200 gold.

If you truly have honor for absolutely no purpose, then I’m not hellbent against taking it out of your value equations. Or if you’re going to be near the vendor anyhow and can discount the time to purchase the pots/food, then it may even become viable to do so. But I think these things should at the very least be considered before blindly following this suggestion.

By the way, my numbers in my previous comment were based on a 90 sec round trip, not 60.

Anonymous said...

Depending what you do, honor maybe free.
For example, I'm leveling a disc priest level 48 now. Each day I do the daily pvp. Normally I don't do it levels x0-4, but levels x5-9 (so not level 34, but level 36 I'll do it). The idea is I can shield out the hell of people and normally we win the bg. I'd say it's 75% win ratio. (being horde doesn't hurt :P)

So I basically do that bg thing to get the quest done, and have a break from running instances/grinding. I am not planning on buying pvp gear at 80, as I don't pvp. So spending few honor on pots doesn't hurt.

Yes, I suppose I could save up honor and buy epic gems, but it seems that pots are a better investment. There have been a few times where I would have wiped in instance if not for mana pots. And a wipe isn't a 5 minute setback - people may leave, what if tank leaves? that's 10 mins to get a new one, etc. people go afk, it could easily take 15 minutes to recover.

Iiene of Kul Tiras said...

You gotta look at this from Gevlon's point of view. When not doing blog projects, he apparently spends all his time in the battlegrounds. As such, honor, for him, is very low cost.

Brian said...

@ last anon: I’m not comparing having pots to not having pots, I’m comparing honor-vendor-bought pots to AH-bought pots.

Patrick said...

"Seriously, you ARE being silly complaining about the time spent "farming" this.

Lets say you want 50 potions. Just queue now and then while playing the AH, and try to get into a game that is underway. Afk'ing (not /afk...doh!) and autorunning into the battle while you go to the toilet should net you 50 honor which goes a long way in terms of potions..." oh god no...

If you like to pvp whilst levelling I preffer doing a bg everyday for the daily quest because its fun. Its an alternative to levelling through quests and quite entertaining depending on groups. Even If you dotn win you will gain 10 honor which u will then be able to spend on your 10 health pots per day. I doubt people need more than 10 health/mana potions per day unless they play a lot. But even if they do a win will grant them enough honor for 50 pots/day. Say he buys 10 and spends 1-2 hours after the BG levelling.
He later needs to get his new abilities from a trainer so he makes a quick stop at ogrimmar for example. Whilst he's there he can spend 30 seconds going to the honor vendors and buying his pots which cost him literally nothing. And on he goes to level again.

Gevlon just wants to demonstrate cheap alternatives not free alternatives.

Anonymous said...

Even so, I would be more comfortable if Gevlon said that you should use any honour that you might have spare, instead of actively going into a BG with the purpose of getting some.

Genaro said...

Or you could be an alchemist...

Endless Mana and Healing pots ftw!!!

The Gnome of Zurich said...

potions are for emergency use yes, but some classes have more emergencies that others. also, I get bored doing green/yellow quests carefully, so I usually push to do everything quickly, and work quests that are higher than I am "supposed" to do, do group quests solo, etc. This kind of behavior almost never results in needing a pot, let alone death on my paladin, but with the mage and the warrior it was different.

I used a lot of health pots tanking in dungeons with my warrior, since you can never count on a decent healer.

Well, by a lot I mean I might go through a full stack + of a given potion before I leveled to be able to use a better one.

But that's enough to have to restock once. And the vendor is somewhat inconvenient.

I found that if I looked on the ah, I found enough that weren't as expensive as all that, often grabbing them for 25-50s ea at that level. More than the pvp yes, but not enough to notice, really. And they drop from mobs as you are leveling as well.

Isseit said...

Why are people treating honor like something that is farmed? From the point of view listed (not a HC PvPer), Honor is something just picked up casually, be it Stone Keepers' Shards from the daily frost, killing some random from the other faction if you're on a PvP server, VoA, etc.

As stated, the materials require such little honor that the residual honor picked up from normal activity is more than enough to keep you topped up.

warren said...

This is one of the advantages of being an alchemist: Flask of the North and Endless Healing Potion are great for running heroics, low-level raiding (Naxx for raid weekly, say), BGs and the like where it's generally not worth it to spend gold on progression raiding consumables.

Anonymous said...

Great advice on enchants/gems. There is no need to get the absolute "best" enchant or gem out there if you aren't using BIS type items.

Powerful Stats is a huge ripoff compared to the cheaper (and almost as good Super Stats). Almost every top level enchant has a slightly less powerful version but for a LOT less in mats/price.