On the picture you can see my only mount. There is an achievement for 100 mounts, which proves that you can have at least 100 mounts. Yet I have only one. Being druid helps, but my other characters also have 2 mounts, 1 for ground and 1 for flying.
My minipet collection is a bit bigger as quests and events give you pets and you can also buy them for silvers in cities. I used to trade them in the common AH back then and simply equipped some. Still, none of my characters have 25 pets.
Why is it important? Because you can pay 10 real world euros, aka 1 month WoW subscription for a single minipet. I can only quote Mimiron: "Now, why would you go and do something like that?"
Of course I'm not naive, I'm fully aware that Blizzard makes a killing with those things. Most probably they will be followed by other minipets, mounts, tabards, titles and RP clothing. I don't think (yet) that they would dare to sell items with top stats, however I can imagine that they would sell not-top tier emblems or honor.
Let's try to answer to our beloved provider of wonderous rapidity! Did I ever missed some other mounts than my wolf and flight form? Never. Did I ever missed a minipet? Actually I barely call upon any of my existing ones. Let's face it, they are completely pointless.
OK, you might think they are cute and funny. Possibly. But why do you have to own them? I mean I find Lamborghinies beautiful, yet I'm not planning to buy one. Not even to rent one for a weekend, although I could afford that easily. Every time I see one on the street, I turn after it, admire it, and move on my way smiling (not ironically, but filled with beauty). So, why do you have to buy it to receive its "cuteness". You could just walk to any pet in Dalaran and watch it!
The answer is pretty sad: people want to own these things because they believe that the Joneses doesn't have them yet, or even worse, they already have one and will look down on us if we can't keep up. If I'd have to point out one reason from many why I'm goldcapped in WoW and do pretty well IRL (granted, not Lamborghini-well, but with enough deposit to be unemployed for 3 years without a drop in my lifestyle), that one reason would be: "I don't give a damn about the Joneses". As far as an item serves me well, I don't care if it's old, out of style, "cheap" or whatever way unapproved by the Joneses.
WoW is a fantasy game. Joneses doesn't care about your mount or minipet. It's just pixels for them. Why don't you give the "what would they say about my stuff" idea a break, at least in WoW. Don't buy panda or lilKT! You'll see that no one will insult you for that (not like their words would make any difference). Why don't you get out of the threadmill at least in the video game you play?!
Most people will sooner or later buy minipets because they feel they are looked down by peers if they wouldn't. These MMOs, despite their fantasy or sci-fi settings are actually social places, where the actions of social people are governed by the same ape-subroutines. However in the game this behavior is obviously pointless and ridiculous (while in real life it's obvious only to a sociopath). I seriously believe that the biggest benefit of these games is exactly that: illuminating how obviously wrong the social people are.
PS: yes, fragment of this post appeared yesterday, as I wrote it and accidently post it instead of saving.
PS2: I bought the frostwolf at lvl60 while farming honor for lvl70 gear. I thought it's easier to win AV on 60 in enchanted lvl55-60 blues than against PvP geared lvl70-es. The marks back then could not be used for much, so I actually saved the price of the faction mount.
My minipet collection is a bit bigger as quests and events give you pets and you can also buy them for silvers in cities. I used to trade them in the common AH back then and simply equipped some. Still, none of my characters have 25 pets.
Why is it important? Because you can pay 10 real world euros, aka 1 month WoW subscription for a single minipet. I can only quote Mimiron: "Now, why would you go and do something like that?"
Of course I'm not naive, I'm fully aware that Blizzard makes a killing with those things. Most probably they will be followed by other minipets, mounts, tabards, titles and RP clothing. I don't think (yet) that they would dare to sell items with top stats, however I can imagine that they would sell not-top tier emblems or honor.
Let's try to answer to our beloved provider of wonderous rapidity! Did I ever missed some other mounts than my wolf and flight form? Never. Did I ever missed a minipet? Actually I barely call upon any of my existing ones. Let's face it, they are completely pointless.
OK, you might think they are cute and funny. Possibly. But why do you have to own them? I mean I find Lamborghinies beautiful, yet I'm not planning to buy one. Not even to rent one for a weekend, although I could afford that easily. Every time I see one on the street, I turn after it, admire it, and move on my way smiling (not ironically, but filled with beauty). So, why do you have to buy it to receive its "cuteness". You could just walk to any pet in Dalaran and watch it!
The answer is pretty sad: people want to own these things because they believe that the Joneses doesn't have them yet, or even worse, they already have one and will look down on us if we can't keep up. If I'd have to point out one reason from many why I'm goldcapped in WoW and do pretty well IRL (granted, not Lamborghini-well, but with enough deposit to be unemployed for 3 years without a drop in my lifestyle), that one reason would be: "I don't give a damn about the Joneses". As far as an item serves me well, I don't care if it's old, out of style, "cheap" or whatever way unapproved by the Joneses.
WoW is a fantasy game. Joneses doesn't care about your mount or minipet. It's just pixels for them. Why don't you give the "what would they say about my stuff" idea a break, at least in WoW. Don't buy panda or lilKT! You'll see that no one will insult you for that (not like their words would make any difference). Why don't you get out of the threadmill at least in the video game you play?!
Most people will sooner or later buy minipets because they feel they are looked down by peers if they wouldn't. These MMOs, despite their fantasy or sci-fi settings are actually social places, where the actions of social people are governed by the same ape-subroutines. However in the game this behavior is obviously pointless and ridiculous (while in real life it's obvious only to a sociopath). I seriously believe that the biggest benefit of these games is exactly that: illuminating how obviously wrong the social people are.
PS: yes, fragment of this post appeared yesterday, as I wrote it and accidently post it instead of saving.
PS2: I bought the frostwolf at lvl60 while farming honor for lvl70 gear. I thought it's easier to win AV on 60 in enchanted lvl55-60 blues than against PvP geared lvl70-es. The marks back then could not be used for much, so I actually saved the price of the faction mount.
99 comments:
Not this again.
I paid some guy in trade 6000g to sell me his code for Pandaren, even though I don't make a habbit of collecting pets(I have about 7 total). I'm happy with my decision, and you are free to call me a retard. I will probably make the gold to cover how much it costs either by tonight, or sometime tomorrow.
I have a similar mount/pet philosophy, but sometimes they are fun, and it's about fun, not the Joneses.
My wife gets giggles about a gnome on a mammoth. That's worth imaginary money. The only extra flying mount I have on any character, other than the free dragon from CoS, is a flying carpet that i just get a kick out of using. It's for enjoyment, not the Joneses, who have much more "prestigious" mounts anyway.
I can't fathom buying the pets, myself. But a guildie who bought the pandaren last night said he'd been wanting to play one since the game started, and obviously just enjoys it.
Which is worth something. I can't afford the Lamborghini, much as I'd enjoy it. But you may find as you get older (like me), that you treat yourself to a few luxuries simply because life is short and you want to enjoy them. Not to impress others.
I disagree. I personally have many mounts because it makes mounting up a tad more interesting. Of course, I have my favorites of course (I'm particularly drawn to my polar bear at the moment) but a castrandom macro can do wonders for making the repetitive actions of the game slightly more bearable.
Pets, however, are simply me injecting money into the economy. Seriously, what else is the gold good for? The stuff falls off trees these days. Once you get your enchants done, the pile just grows and grows...
"Most people will sooner or later buy minipets because they feel they are looked down by peers if they wouldn't."
Nah, I think you had it right earlier. They buy them because they're cute and funny and *zing* impulse buy. Or, Oh my boyfriend/girlfriend will like that! *sing* impulse buy. Ofc the people who buy soonest will get more interest from others (because people want to stop and look at the new minipet) but I think that's more of a side bonus.
You know what I would pay $10 for? A hammer to shut those Pandaren up! Yeah, they're cute and all, but they babble and make noise constantly, and like 5 people had them at my raid the other night.
In America, for adult professionals, $10 isn't a lot of money. It's like two drinks from Starbucks or Subway subs. I don't have either of the pets and I'm unlikely to get one because they don't really fit with my characters well.
You collect gold, I collect pets and mounts - where's the difference? What is the point of hitting the gold cap if you aren't going to spend that gold on anything?
There are all kinds in WoW - hardcore raiders, solo grinders, RPers, PVPers, people who play purely for the social aspects, people who collect pets, people who collect achievements, etc. No one group is better nor worse than any other - they all have their reasons for doing what they do, so why the hate?
My fiance loves pandas, the pandaren makes her smile. Her smiling is worth more than anything.
Mounts / pets last longer than gear which gets replaced so quickly. Yes they are useless but I will definitely choose mimiron's head mount over the legendary mace.
Which is why I find people spending gold on boe epics even more stupid than getting mounts/pets.
I agree with Townes, life is short and any money left at the end is a waste (just like any mana left at the end of a fight, is wasted mana).
You might have missed out one more reason of buying pets, or having a truck load of pets and mount: self-gratified fun.
As long as a player gets a kick, joy, happiness, gratification or some good feelings on seeing his pixel on top of a pixel that looked like a dragon, that's is a fun reason of playing WoW and not getting approval.
It's not as empty and pointless as you may think. People like to stand out in the crowd. Not because they are stupid. Because by being noticed they increase their chances to mate and breed. It's evolution.
So the vanity items (rare mount, rare pet (the one for 10 euros), title, gear in WoW; designer clothes, flashy car, etc) make that person more noticeable, therefore more attractive.
Yes, you might say standing out in computer game doesn't increase your chances of mating, but.. you don't really know that, do you?:)
People buy pets etc for the same reason why people buy ferrari's etc.
Want to know what that is? Its all about style etc. Just re-write your article with cars in mind. People buy luxuary cars because they are exactly that.
Same with cloths. Same with just about any consumer product. You do not need a gold chain in real life, but peopel buy them. Do you know why?
If you do not understand this, then it is you who is the retard and not the people buying th epets
Different strokes for different folks.. Making gold makes you feel some sort of enjoyment*. Having Pandaren Monk go "hiiiiyah!" every so often makes me smile. I find it funny when someone's Lil' K.T. cackles after its owner makes a kill.
I doubt anyone's buying these just so they can "keep up." If an insecure person is really so worried about being looked down upon, they should work on gearing up instead of buying these pets. The Joneses put way more weight on the pixels for those omgepicz than they do on a couple of cute little pets that don't actually have any use.
*I'm assuming this, because otherwise why bother? The gold is only a couple of numbers after all, and it's not like you're using it on multiple 18k+ mounts.
Some people actually play a game to have fun. If your fun is to get to the gold-cap so be it. I actually have fun when my random-macro calls one of my 92 companions or my 85 mounts (yes all mamuts and the chopper). Besides, there are achievements attached and my goal is to reach the achievement-cap ^^
*You're a druid.
*You don't care about how your game looks.
*The frostwolf gives you no ingame advantage (Unlike the mammoth).
According to your principles aren't you a social for buying it?
"Let's face it, they are completely pointless."
"It's just pixels"
I quoted two statements of yours. Isn't it pointless to be on Cold Cap? Isn't it just pixels the gold you have?
The motives of each person are related to the needs he/she sets and the things to make him/her happy.
Your goal/satisfaction in wow is to be reach. Other's people satisfaction (like mine) is to taste things.
You can't judge them because they like something that you find pointless as long as they don't hurt anyone.
I believe that the more interesting things that you find around you the world the more happy that you get.
I respect your thoughts and ofc there are times that my goal is wealth but you will have to understand that WoW
is a game, is a product that we buy from Blizzard for our satisfaction. Other people enjoy having mounts whereas
others having huge amounts of Gold. It's like going out to a bar and judging the other that drinks Vodka because
you think that Gin is better.
Dear Gevlon,
I am sorry to inform you that you failed. And your blog failed.
* You tried to educate the people here into the non-social way: you failed.
* You tried to create a virtual space which is M&S free: you failed.
* You tried to teach these people about the relative values of this life: you failed.
* You tried to spread the Goblin philosophy among people: you failed.
* You tried to make people understand what a goblin is and what's it all about: you failed.
Really sorry man...
@Okrane S: There are 3200 subscribers, 3500 random visitors on average. Count the commenters who didn't get the point and do the math yourself.
All the commenters here got the point very accurately:) It is really interesting and revealing to see how you will react to this. So far you're not doing well.
By the way, I always wondered where do you put all that gold. How do you find constantly reaching gold cap still fun and challenging. Isn't it an obsession with no goal to reach now?
At least pet owners have have some goals.
"Now, why would you go and do something like that?"
- because he looks awesome
- because I'm in love with pandas
- because my kids love to observe him doing kung-fu
- because it's another pet in my collection
- because someone I love giggles at it
- because ...
Being compared by/to other people doesn't have to be our motivation to buy those pets at all. I know you're posting from "Greedy" perspective, but don't be so narrow/limited. For some of us your gold limit is "just pixels". Why would you spend time on reaching it if there is nothing in this game 20k can't buy you? Do you like comparing yourself to Joneses who don't have your level of wealthy (in game)?
One thing comes to mind Gevlon... if you despise superfluous things so, why did you get a wolf? Would not a kodo have sufficed? I mean, you wouldn't have had to grind rep (or do 17-50 AV games, depending on your battlegroup). Three reasons come to mind.
1. You like wolves. No fault there, wolves are badass. If I was Horde, I'd ride a wolf.
2. You, on some level, wanted to show that you either grinded rep or stomped the hell out of some Alliance. This makes you a wee bit of a hypocrite.
3. Hitbox. Maybe it lets you sneak your tauren through small doors easier. I don't play one so I wouldn't know.
Either way, you do collect gold. What difference does it make if the person next to you enjoys collecting minipets or mounts, ticking off boxes as their collection grows. Is that somehow inferior to your quest for 214 thousand gold, time after time?
One last question, and I actually would love to hear your answer:
Why you think reaching in-game gold limit is better goal then reaching 100 mounts or reaching 100 pets? What make one of those worth pursuit and the other sad/pointless?
"I don't give a damn about the Joneses" is hardly a reason, I can say the same about the other two goals. Give some real answer.
@Pawel: like I hadn't answer that question a zillion times: I collect gold for this blog. No one would believe me if I wouldn't make gold myself. No gold, no blog. Is it hard to understand?
About your points: Why do you have to OWN a panda to make your kids laugh? Any panda you spot in Dalaran, stand next to it with Alt-Z wouldn't have the same effect?
Laughter on demand, I assume. Children are impatient and aren't likely to wait around while he fumbles around Dalaran looking for a Pandaren.
Also, thank you for answering my question. Looking back, I did the same thing with the Black War Horse when I was rather poor. 100g, or 90 space tokens? The choice was simple.
For the "it makes my gf giggles" faction.just spend some more time with her instead of trying to calm her down with a little ingame pet, that only works a couple of times.
Since i figuered out for myself back those days, i just pop out a pet for max 2 days and after that i litterally forget it...i would never spent my gold on pets nomore.
For example the deviat saurus is very easy to farm , sometimes i got 3 out of 5 runs...thats max 1500 (or 900 when to many on ah) for less then an hour work* when i saw it first time on someone, i was happy that i didnt bound one to myself...
Thank you Gevlon for another one nice post.
Pure pleasure to read.
Back to mounts/cars sure yes, but imo if you can afford to spend your money (or time) for one why not. Of course only if for yourself not for your inner social ape. Problem here is it's kind of difficult to delimit.
Eg I really like my winterspring frostsaber and netherdrake (hope i do not my ape). No plans getting anything else. And haven't farmed/bought any pets.
But going for 100+ mounts and become more and more happy as more rare ones you get.. Yes, diagnosis.
-----
Keep running your blog! :)
P.S. Sorry for my not-that-good english.
You lvld all the way up to 60 without a Mount? Isn't that inefficient?
Even when the difference between 40% Travel form and 60% Mount is not that big its still worth to get the Mount in my opinion :o
"Now, why would you go and do something like that?"
Here are a few possible motivations:
Envy: The 'keeping up with the Joneses' motivation that you've described in detail.
Greed: The desire to have MORE - more pets, more mounts, more gold, more epics, more achievements points, more, more, more. Not more than others, mind, but simply more than they had yesterday. Even if WoW was a single-player game, greedy people would still strive to collect stuff, just to enjoy the rush of continuous acquisition.
Perfectionism: Gotta catch them ALL! And until they do, they'll feel incomplete and unsatisfied. Similar to Greed, this motivation is still valid in a nonsocial single-player environment. The difference is that perfectionists are goal-driven (must reach a certain number), whereas greedy one are process-driven (must see numbers grow).
Lust: Not in the sexual sense, of course, but simply in form of desire for new eye candy. Both of new pets have high-quality models (for minipets, anyway). And while one could, theoretically, achieve the same effect by simply strolling down the streets of Dalaran, don't forget that KT and Pandaren are also available to characters who simply can't get to Dalaran yet, or are far too busy levelling to spend much time in capital cities. It is far too easy to forget that not everybody is a bored level 80 yet.
And that's just off the top of my head.
Y'know, I think I should do an extended blogpost on human (and goblin, and dreadlord) motivations. Perhaps next week.
If someone is motivated by what you stated (which a significant amount are!), then it's correct to conclude they would have pets/mounts (even for hard bucks).
However, it is not valid to turn this around and say: if someone has pets/mounts, then he is motivated by the stated reasons (as you yourself show since you do have a mount and some pets).
In short: socials do A, but if someone does A he is not necessarily a social.
I would love a Pandaren and/or a Lil KT, but I won't buy one. I can barely justify the $15 I spend a month on WoW when I'm trying to save up for grad school; even $20 is something I have to really think about.
However, they're not something I want to "keep up with the Joneses." I want them because they are fun and interesting, because I like pets, because I do almost always have a pet out...and I could care less if other people have them or not. They're for my amusement, and you could stand next to them and comment on them, or ignore them; it doesn't matter to me at all.
I know this blog is built on sweeping generalizations, but this one is pretty weak.
One last question:
What's the reason for having so much money if you can't spend them in luxuries? Money is median ;-)
Some people like to have mini pets, some people like yourself like to tell others that you are gold-capped. What's the difference? Maybe you're the one who wanted to keep up with the other gold-capped Joneses!
And no, I don't collect pets or mounts!
So… do you look down equally on others’ going for the gold cap because they AREN’T doing it for blog credibility?
You are awfully judgmental.
"Most people will sooner or later buy minipets because they feel they are looked down by peers if they wouldn't."
In the long list of dumb things you say, this has to be towards the top.
People buy noncombat pets because they enjoy having something run around after them. I have never once met anyone who was comparing how many they had against how many someone else had.
The biggest problem with your entire world view is that you assume that anyone who doesn't act exactly as you do is an idiot. Sometimes, people just have different priorities. And those different priorities don't make them dumb.
I have never bought anything in WoW to keep up with the Joneses. I buy things in WoW because I think they are cool and I don't have any other use for money beyond maintaining my gear.
Some of us are actually able to make big purchases without slaving over the AH (which, whether you admit it or not is what you do). To date I've bought epic flying x3, cold weather flying x2, a motorcycle, and countless other mounts and sundries and still have more gold than I can spend.
Wow. Its about the Micro-transactions. Nothing more. He is (In his own Goblin way) telling you that Blizzard has now come up with yet another way to take our money and most will fall for it. Not because they need it or can afford it but because SOMEONE else has it.
"You know what I would pay $10 for? A hammer to shut those Pandaren up!"
That's exactly Lil'KT for. Clever buisiness by Blizzard. Theres also (quite popular) toys sold in Dalaran - toy train and toy train crusher.
@Gevlon
You make a couple of odd logical leaps here.
1. "You could just walk to any pet in Dalaran and watch it!" If everyone followed this logic then what you say would be impossible. I don't doubt that some people buy these pets in hope that other player will think they are cool, but lets face it. They are cutie, and you can't take someone elses Lil KT out in to the world to kill critters. Owning one of your own does posses some amusement value. The question is that value greater then 10 dollars. For me, it is not.
2. "No one would believe me if I wouldn't make gold myself." True, but why continue? You've already proven you can get to the gold cap. Maybe something has changed but it doesn't sound like you need much gold since you are no longer supporting a guild. Therefore, why was it important for you to get back to the gold cap when you transfered serves? Why maintain your businesses at all?
We all have things we value in life, and we can all easily look at the things that other people value and think them stupid for it. My grandmother used to collect little tea spoons. In my opinion they were ugly and expensive, but she loved them. There are plenty of people that look at us and say, why play a stupid computer game? Why not go outside and play a sport?
@Gevlon:
Pawel asked: "Why you think reaching in-game gold limit is better goal then reaching 100 mounts or reaching 100 pets? What make one of those worth pursuit and the other sad/pointless?"
Your answer: "like I hadn't answer that question a zillion times: I collect gold for this blog. No one would believe me if I wouldn't make gold myself. No gold, no blog. Is it hard to understand?"
You have answered a different question. Why reaching the in-game gold limit is a better goal than collecting mounts?
I'm sorry but thats that the only reason.
imo I don't care what everyone else has. I got my drake because I wanted one. I only had multiple mounts because the albino drake is easy to get.
With everyone trying to get raid mounts not very many have the green proto-drake or the albino drake. Its sad.
I bought my car because it was cool, not because I cared what my neighbors thought. I could have bought a junker, but I wanted a nice car. No it wasn't the nicest but it was a nice one.
So the gist is... buy/collect them if you want... don't if you don't. Fair enough.
Im shocked and amazed that people, after reading this blog for however long, think to defend buying vanity pets for any reason.
Just a hint, Gevlon isnt saying that having vanity items doesnt increase your enjoyment of the game, he just thinks you are retarded if having useless crap like that does increase your fun.
And I agree.
How spending time on collecting heaps of virtual money is better than spending time on collecting heaps of mounts? What's the logic here?
I bought them, and I don't care who else has them. For me, it's a cost/pleasure ratio - I get enjoyment out of the pets, and they're relatively inexpensive. However, there are limits to what I'll buy; I thought the Blizzcon feed was too much for a pet.
virtual money you can trade right back into time saved. pets, you can't
@Okrane S:
"virtual money you can trade right back into time saved."
So, you are spending time making virtual money so that you can save some time? Sounds dumb to me.
then I bet u are the kind of guy that never brings consumables to his raid, or "forgets" to repair just before amirite
Funny how most the comments range from "mild nerdrage": But I want to buy those pets for my own fun, don't call me an idiot!!! to trying to show your superiority: LOL goldcap is the same pointless goal as collecting pets, you're the same as those socials!!!
People, why do you read the blog if you feel the writer "insults you" or "is stupid". I made the blog my bookmark and check it frequently, even though I didn't "subscribe" to raise the numbers in the table, I don't need to subscribe to read it... And I read it because it find it FUN!
The point is:
1. If you buy the pet for your own fun and don't give a rat's tail about "the Joneses", or rather "what others think", why do you suddenly care what a particular Goblin thinks and laughs at you? You claim you don't care?
2. If you come here to tell the world "the OP is an idiot", you're just a kind of forum troll, the one who thinks people will admire them as "teh smart" when they point out someone else "is dumb". You're e-peening, basically. Also, you're wasting time reading a blog you don't find enjoyable and well-written.
Hi Gevlon. I believe your blog has become a beacon for all the M&S in the world. They give me some entertainement value while at work. Keep them coming!
@thorus : we bank gold, so that when we have less time to farm gold, our raiding experience will be unaffected for a long time. Theres a reason to have savings, virtual or real.
Name 1 reason for owning a pet. If that reason is 'enjoyment' or 'pleasure' than name 1 reason WHY they give you enjoyment or pleasure. They dont stimulate any nerves, they cant entertain you more than a dancing desktop application, they bring nothing to the warcraft experience.
The point is, they are worthless. As in valueless. Its the same as owning a pet rock.
couldnt care less about pets and or mounts really. I play the game for social reasons. I think it is much more fun to play a game with friends than to go solo. If they want pets and mounts then gratz to them. For me I would rather have the achievement mounts. Altho I purposely do not do any of the holiday achievements. That purple violet proto is one ugly POS. The only reason I give 2 shits about gear is to do my best to contribute to bosskills.
The thing I realized reading this blog is...
All people are "socials" in this or that way. Yes, I am an "ape" too. First reaction was I got upset with myself, then I started laughing.
Why are people so deeply insulted finding themselves in the "socials" or "ape" category?
We care about other people, what other people think and what we assume they could think, it's the way we're created, born and brought up. We aren't a little vermin with one brain cell to steer them to find food, breed and then be free to die. Our life is interesting because of all the little silly things we do, that aren't straight away about survival or breeding.
How did I realize I'm a social ape in WOW?
I didn't feel any need to buy epic flying before... "the Battle before the Citadel quest". I am too unskilled to solo the quest, so I'm joining a group. A usual group does TFA then flies across Icecrown on their epic mounts. They usually killed a commander before I reached them, and I had to beg them to wait for me or kill one more so I can get the quest completed. That was humiliating. And yes, humiliation is and ape-subroutine too.
Yes, I played through the whole TBC and half the wotlk without epic flying and now I've bought it on my main and preparing to buy on other two chars, they have enough money just I want to farm reputation first to get it a bit "cheaper".
Same was the drive to buy boe epics. I wanted to raid, that's the biggest fun I have in the game. Gear helps both in getting into groups and in giving a wider margin for my mistakes while still beating the encounter. Earlier, I felt the drive to buy boe epics because for example my guild was making me "sit out" EoE raids because "others have better gear" and I wanted to "see the content". Same when Ulduar came out "we'll make a team of our best geared people".
However, came 3.2 and I saw buying boe gear started being pointless. Earlier, you had to have luck in raids with loot or buy boe epics, or wear blues and be shut out of raids because "we want the best geared people in our group". Now every M&S who didn't even step into raids is overgearing Ulduar just by farming badges.
Who the hell is still paying 5000g for Je'tze bell?! I still see it on the AH for such a price. Yet you have 2 badge trinkets, WG trinkets, normal TOC trinkets and somewhere in between Brewfest trinkets. I considered buying the bell when I had no idea what to fill those slots with. Finally I found out there's a "Darkmoon Card: Illusion" going for less than 1/10 of Je'tze bell's price and used it happily until recently, when more options appeared.
@Okrane S:
"then I bet u are the kind of guy that never brings consumables to his raid, or "forgets" to repair just before amirite"
Nope, you are wrong. And that was a non-sequitur, too.
@Chris:
"we bank gold, so that when we have less time to farm gold, our raiding experience will be unaffected for a long time."
Yes, I understand. I do this, too.
"Name 1 reason for owning a pet. If that reason is 'enjoyment' or 'pleasure' than name 1 reason WHY they give you enjoyment or pleasure. They dont stimulate any nerves, they cant entertain you more than a dancing desktop application, they bring nothing to the warcraft experience."
The reason is pleasure. People collect all kinds of weird things as a hobby because that brings them fun.
Let's say we have two guys. One guy has 100K gold and no pets. Another has 200K gold and almost a hundred pets. Both spend the same amount of time playing WoW, the second guy is just more effective at making money. Would you say that the second guy is a moron? By Gevlon's logic, he would be, because he has spent money on something that Gevlon things has no value.
You see now?
@Thorus
I'm glad Chris took the time to explain the idea for u to get it... I just cba to explain stuff to M&S people.
@Last Anonymous
"Mounts" usually means the fastest available, which are grinded/farmed/payed for by most players looking for vanity.
The fact that he has another 2 slower mounts (which he never used after buying the faster ones) is besides the point.
As for your first point, I believe he explained it already in his post.
@Gevlon.
I have a proposition. As ur site seems to start attracting the M&S I suggest fill up your "Morons of the Week" section with some of the brilliant comments found right here in your blog.
Detailed explanation to why they are wrong is also welcomed.
Of course this will drive the people making the comments away from here, but hey, you dont care about these M&S anyway, right?
@Okrane S:
It's not that you "cba" to defend your point, it's that you can't defend it.
Continue calling your opponents names. You are winning the Internets.
Funny how most the comments range from "mild nerdrage": But I want to buy those pets for my own fun, don't call me an idiot!!! to trying to show your superiority: LOL goldcap is the same pointless goal as collecting pets, you're the same as those socials!!!
People, why do you read the blog if you feel the writer "insults you" or "is stupid". I made the blog my bookmark and check it frequently, even though I didn't "subscribe" to raise the numbers in the table, I don't need to subscribe to read it... And I read it because it find it FUN!
The answer is simple: Gevlon is right about a lot of things. He's very good at making money, for one. However, when someone you have some inkling of respect for says something very, VERY stupid you feel somewhat obligated to at least tell them that they're being stupid. Of course, it's not your job to convert them. But still, a keystrokes cost you... what? A minute and a half? Not a lot, all things considered. Tell them once how you think they're wrong. If they discover their folly, good deed for the day complete. If they don't? Let them continue being wrong. You tried, they turned it down.
/shrug
What else can you do?
Don't forget that people purchase and buy things like this to fill the emptiness in their lives.
Which is sort of like filling a bank account...
Honestly, it's the same sort of thing. Different people gain enjoyment from different things, and that's what makes this world great.
Anyways, don't forget some people are filling a psychological void when they buy a minipet... I'm not saying pity them, but it can most certainly be that and not having to do with the Joneses.
Actaully I like Tobold's point on mounts and pets more than yours. After all is said and done and the level cap is increased, those pets and mounts still hold all of the same value, while at the same time, your money is worthless because of the ingame inflation, and any gear that you may have purcahsed is no longer viable.
So if you have the ingame gold, why not spend it on that stuff. Sure, it is just a collection of pixels, but so is that little number saying that you are at the gold cap.
I generally don't buy much crap, but when one of the people in my raid group said he was going to try to sell a mechano-hog, I bought it from him. Why? Well... I had nothing better to do with my money, its not like I'm saving for an early in game retirment or anything.
Though buying pets for $10 is pretty dumb, no matter how cool they look.
@Thorus
No, man... its just that I dont feel like pulling the effort of trying to find the proper wording and the precise arguements to clear it up for someone who puts in question a blatantly obvious thing like: "Pets are the utter most useless thing in this game".
But I'll try to write you just a couple of bullets just for you to see that my arguement is easily defendable.
My arguement( virtual money you can trade right back into time saved):
* time spent now is better than time spend in the future
* better time optimization
* investment opportunities
* lowered risk in respect to market fluctuations or liquidity
* time saved when gearing alts (no more badge runs just boe craftables)
* unpredictible events(RL or in-game)
* comfort/buffer zone.
* goblin raiding
and bla bla bla bla... many more...
As for your initial question: "How spending time on collecting heaps of virtual money is better than spending time on collecting heaps of mounts? What's the logic here?"
From a simple mathematical/logical point of view: with gold you can buy mounts... and much much more... lol
cba to type more...
@Okrane S:
Oh... I will ask one more time. Why having "investment opportunities" in a video game does not make you a "moron", but having a couple of mounts in the same game does? And, if you really want to expand on your last point, that you can exchange gold for mounts, please note that you can exchange quite a lot of mounts for gold as well.
aI simply do not understand the argument of some things in WOW being more useless. It all depends on your approach to the game. And calling people who do not have the same approach as you morons or idiots is in itself oxymoronic.
I was sure you were going to do that. Cling on to just one point among the many and trying to find a hole in my arguement. Typical of an insecure person (dont wanna call u any more words here... )
Well, to explain that too, investment oportunities gain you more gold, thus you gain more time.
For example. Say I had 10k gold now and saw some cheap Titanium Ore (100 stacks at 100gold each) just before 3.2 hit (the epic gem patch). I buy them out (1 minute worth of time) and sell them for 300g just after the patch (another 10 minute work)
I just made 20k gold profit just by having that 10k gold saved up.
You, on the other hand, who never carry more than 1k gold on yourself, and who would likely spend it on Red Drake, Mammoth or bike, you could not have taken advantage of this oportunity.
With the 20k profit, I buy myself a Merlin's Robe and other BiS craftables, or even start Goblin raiding, while you do your dailies
etc etc etc...
What mount can you exchange for gold??? Werent we talking about piling up mounts? As in get the 100 mount achievement???
If you are farming them to sell, or some weird gold making scam involving mounts, then we are not talking about the same thing, are we?
I'm confused - you gathered 50 AV tokens...on foot? You gimped your team for all those battles to save 10g? (Go Horde?) You limited yourself to *travel form* for 30 levels to save 10g? Wouldn't the extra time spent walking around instead of riding be considered lost time, and thus lost money?
Dear Gevlon, people buy Lamborghinies to get supermodels. And they get supermodels to brag about getting a supermodel.
You sir, on the other hand get money and brag about it on blog. It's same thing ... minus the supermodels.
Time for a joke: A guy is stranded on an island, and he finds that Cindy Crawford is there. They eventually start sleeping together. After a month he aks her for a favor: "Dress as a man, and go around the island this way, and I'll go the other way." She complies, and starts walking dressed as a man.
After a while they meet up, the guy runs up to her, and yells "dude, you'll never believe who I'm sleeping with".
The whole point in life is to brag ... I guess.
@Okrane S:
You seem to be saying that a guy who learns how to make gold and takes some time to do it is spending his time in a more efficient manner than a guy who... what?... who does not learn or do that? But that's a false dichotomy. A person collecting mounts can make as much gold per unit of time as a person who chooses to have no mounts. Yes, buying mounts might take some of your capital off business, but for your day-to-day moneymaking it does not really matter whether you have 200K or, say, 180K. There are diminishing returns to everything.
And that's before we start discussing the merits of equalizing "not being religiously concerned with earning money in a video game to the point of not buying in-game goods" and "being a moron".
Think about it.
Ok, so you collect gold so you can do this blog. Other people collect pets and mounts so they can blog about that, any difference there?
Come to think of it, why do you do the blog in the first place? To look smarter in front of others? To show off your knowledge?
Sounds pretty social to me...and hypocritical to boot.
Many people on JMTC forums make more money per hour than Gevlon makes. Many more people have lots more money than him. Many offer their advice to others, publicly. The only thing that stands for this blog is Gevlon's constant whining and namecalling. That's his main differentiator.
Go figure...
Wait a minute....you're saying the only reason you're better than other people who collect gold is because you blog about it?
So I guess every one of your readers who has more gold than they need, but don't happen to brag about it in a blog, are just as useless as the people who collect mounts & pets?
Gevlon, I agree with much of your analysis (that for most people there are "social" reasons for the desire to own vanity items, such as pets) but I disagree with this next part, and I think it undermines your conclusion:
"However in the game this behavior is obviously pointless and ridiculous (while in real life it's obvious only to a sociopath). I seriously believe that the biggest benefit of these games is exactly that: illuminating how obviously wrong the social people are."
Yes, it is pointless and silly to accumulate vanity items in the game, but it's not unusual for people to react that way for that very reason-- it's just a video game. I think that you are right in that wanting to impress others with your video game prowess is a social behavior that makes people seem silly. But that applies just as well to someone who raids frequently in order to have better gear, or who complains that others are able to get epics with a minimal amount of work.
It can also apply to someone who wants to stand out amongst a sea of "socials." We may try to analyze and reject those ape subroutines, but we remain slaves to them.
News Flash Gevlon,
Everyone enjoys the game in different ways. Some play it to get worthless achievement points. Some want to do every quest and get a worthless title. Some grind Booty Bay Bruisers for days for a pirate hat and a silly bird. Some play the Auction house and want to hit the gold cap. Some want to raid and get world firsts. Some just want to chat with their friends. Everyone is entitled to spend their 15.99 a month however they wish, and you are a dick for belittling those who find enjoyment in things that you don't.
To the d-bag Anonymous, two posts above, go back to the JMTC forums then. Muppet trolls like you bring nothing to any type of convertsation. You are some petty, jealous peon that deserves nothing but contempt from the rest of humanity.
So... I can have all my pixels sitting in the game in the form of coin or I can get a pet/mount that amuses me.
One apparently makes me a goblin and the other makes me a moron.
Does all your gold make cute noises when you click on it? I don't think so!
Moron I might be, but at least I'm giggling while waiting for the raid to start.
I also don't have many pets or mounts, but that isn't because of financial reasons. I just don't care that much about them. I do like a good looking mount, but the regular night-elf cat looks good enough for me. I also like a pet, but me and the prairie chicken go way back, so I don't need others.
Yet the thing is.. I've got all this gold now, but besides supplying all my fresh alts (I've become an altoholic) with gear and flying skills, I'm starting to wonder what to do with it. I'm to cheap to buy anything expensive anyway, but now it just sits there. I'm more or less running the glyph market, which only started as experiment (I wanted to know if selling glyphs really was the easiest way to fast gold, and it is. It's almost cheating), so it's hard to just stop and give it back to the morons that were running it before.
I'm still thinking about stopping, but tbh, it's the only part of the game that still really interests me atm, so I just might go and buy some of this senseless stuff, only to justify making the gold.
If only goldselling was allowed.
@Chris said: we bank gold, so that when we have less time to farm gold, our raiding experience will be unaffected for a long time. Theres a reason to have savings, virtual or real.
So how is raiding or any other WoW activity different, tell me one other reason you're doing it other than pleasure.
Gevlon,
Mate, I'm done, the weird theories and unsupported whacky blanket statements have overtaken any informative content on this site. That may be your intent, it may not, however it seems to be out of kilter with the goals of your subscribers.
You may argue you have a few thousand readers, I argue if you offer the secrets of never ending wealth, people will listen to just about anything you have to say...for a while.
Whilst mildy entertaining and occasionally informative, I have come to realise this blog doesn't add to my skills, or knowledge. It merely gets in the way of achieving my goals.
All the best, but I'm sorry, I can no longer be 'social' enough to interact, make of that what you will.
@ People who dont get it. Just because you have alot of gold doesnt make you a goblin. M%S can profit too, by taking advantage of those dumber than them.
Also, if cute pets are why you play this game, then theres a hello kitty game with your name on it.
@ Chris
Who said anything about the pets being the reason anyone plays the game?
It's an extra bonus. It's the whip cream on the hot chocolate.
Compare it to going to a sports game and buying a giant foam finger to wave around and display your team pride. I doubt anyone goes to the game for the express purpose of purchasing the finger, but while you are there maybe it adds to your enjoyment.
Yes, and anyone that spends good money on a foam finger is M&S in my books, just saying.
Its not that we dont doubt that you find enjoyment from in game pets, we just dont get it, because it doesnt add anything to the game. If you need something to do while waiting for a raid to start, download the Peggle addon or read a book.
Was gonna see if there were any explanation to my statements, but I see you desided to go the easy way and delete them... Reading others comments, it seems more than me saw through your "oooo i use the word 'ape-subroutine' in all my posts and am therefore intellectual" facade.
Take care now, bye bye then.
Some people buy Lambos, some don't. The same split is true of mini-pet collectors and non-collectors, methinks.
I've never really gotten into the minipets; I have one rare one, a drop from an instance, and the satisfaction of taking it out is still pretty minimal, despite the fact that it's quite sought-after. I have made some decent gold selling them on the AH, though.
For my WoW-time-wasting purposes, I enjoy having multiple characters to play much more than I enjoy the various time-intensive achievements some people choose to pursue, and therefore spend most of my time leveling and equipping new characters. I think that activity fulfills much the same need that others fulfill by collecting a bajillion pets.
@ Chris
I have Peggle and a stack of books. Neither of those create the same satisfaction of summoning a random pet and watching it do something cute for 30 seconds. Playing Peggle might be enjoyable, but I've yet to giggle over it.
I think the pet collectors "get" that there are those that don't "get" why we collect pets - to each their own.
What we don't "get" is the extension of the perceived worthlessness of the pet to the player that purchased it.
I've yet to see a collector call a non-collector a moron over their non-interest in whelps and cats.
But hey, I'm interested in virtually every aspect of the game so maybe that makes me a little more open-minded.
The fact that Gevlon does not have a 310% mount means that he is just as M&S as the people he makes fun of.
There are 3 options for getting a 310 mount in order of difficulty
1) Do holiday dailies for a year. Total time spent, ~30 hours
2) Do 10 man or 25 man raids and get the achievements for the
3) Do arenas and achieve gladiator rank
Everyone who is gold capped should have #1 as it is very easy to do compared to running an AH business.
#2 can be done in guilds such as mine on 3 nights of 3 hours a night
#3 is actual skill based and relationship building however I know there are players who can get you gladiator for the right amount of gold IF you are at least somewhat good.
So why is Gevlon unable to do any of these 3 things?
#1 I assume is because only the socials will do it
#2 he has already shown that he pays for raid slots. Apparently he was not wise enough to include his 310 mount as part of the deal
#3 is skll based
I challenge Gevlon to do what I did. Create your own guild. Create the loot system. Motivate players to show up without paying them any gold at all. Heck, show how awesome you are and create a 100 player guild that runs 2 successful heroic clears a week.
I guarantee you there are far more people interested in how to run a guild successfully than how to run inscription and use auctioneer.
Heck you have what most new guilds would kill for, a platform with thousands of readers who would be interested in a no nonsense type of guild.
I find sometimes we do things for sillyh reasons we justify, im really with you on the whole mount thing, I use but one flying and one non-flying mount, and the reasons i seek after the ones i use seemed Practical at the time... (though for the praticality of both there was possibly a better option) Before i ever found your blog and really started making any real seroius gold i quested and collected sold my random junk in the ah to get some gold and get rid of stuff that had been collecting dust for years. in in the course of about 2-3 weeks hitting all 25 dailies getting my self ever closer to exalted with those factions for very practical reasons... I collected about 15000g 12 titanaum bars 2 artic fur made myself 40 cobalt bolts...
when it was all done i still had about 2000-3000 gold left, i Got the bike so i could deal with 2 problems #1 my wife likes to follow me around, much easier in a two seat mount cause then she doesnt get upset when i go around the corner to narrow and she gets stuck, and #2 was going to help my brother level one of his chars... (ultimately a patch soon came out allowing mounts at 30 instead of 40 and it was wasted effort) But i felt justified in this.
My flying mount is practical in that its one of the 310's which i paid noting for just needed to achive(Violet Proto Drake)
Im sure you could come up with some fruity justification for others.. the grand travelers poor mans mammoth.. Well it has 3 seats and comes with vendors. And how often would you use either? I suppose you could always summon your mammoth in Uluadar to repair and buy regents(oh well i guess you could always use jeeves or a repair bot... Or the little goblin sitting on the ogres back....
I commented earlier that I bought this pet, and I tried my best to exlain the decision on my post. http://latinumbar.blogspot.com/2009/11/all-pandas-were-kung-fu-fighting.html
Since it's Friday, and Gevlon would probably link me as an example of Morons of the week, might as well do it early.
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that."
^^Explains quite a lot really.
I reached a point where I had so much gold piled up and so much gold coming in that I started to wonder wtf is the point. So I bought the mechano hog. It was not a complete waste of gold as it has a function. Basically get a friend with you. He jumps out of hog then starts killing people in the town. Usually you get raped by guards. But not with the hog! He jumps back into the hog and I ride away. He keeps getting shot at/netted but that doesnt do anything. We ride away until aggro is gone. Rince and repeat.
Almost all of you completely missed the point of this post and the entire blog
Don't forget OCD...if my wife had not distracted me, I would have eventually unlocked every character and weapon in FFVII...and that wasn't a social game...
Oh yah...and the mammoth is completely worth it...especially if you pug a lot. (Always some idiot hearthing and repairing.)
gotta disagree with you. On my main, I have a large collection of pets and mounts. Why? Well, I couldn't care less about what that player going down the road thinks of my mount, but I do enjoy collecting them. It brings a smile to my face to open the mount and pets tab and see all of those adorable pixel creatures. And yes, I played pokemon when I was little. XP
To me, gold doesn't matter much if it's not used. At the end of the day, I don't want that gold merely sitting around, so I buy stuff that make me happy, like pets and mounts.
People enjoy acquiring things. If it's not hurting anyone to follow what you enjoy, why get all bent out of shape about it?
It's really not that complicated.
Ive got an odd philosophy on pets/mounts. Its amix of asthetics that makes me get them (128 freakin runs of stratholm for barons deathcharger) and functionallity (rusted proto drake - only 1 Ulduar10 hard mode to go)
But i draw the line at buying pets. Thats just one step closer to Evony imho.
Alot of my minipets have come through farming - eg ZG for rep, loot (coins & bijous sell well), 2 possible mounts, and the raptor minipet.
Found 4 raptors so far. kept 1, sold the other 3 for 1.5k each.
Ellifain@Khaz'goroth
Gevlon, you are talking out of your ass again, showing us how superior you are by making up something we can't confirm, yet forgetting that your claim only shows one thing:
You don't have enough skill to get the rusted drake or even the CoT4 drake, which is quite laughable for a glorious raider like yourself.
But I guess that isn't true either. Just like your fantasy strategies of posting every 48 hours and totally not caring about the competition. If you were on my server you wouldn't make a single copper with your "strategy".
I powerleveled Engineering to get mounts #98 and #99 last week. After that I tried to get a raid group for a Sarth3D zerg, but no one wanted to run old content.
So I looked at my wallet - 50,000 gold. So I decided I would buy a Chopper to get the 100 mount Achievement.
Is 50k gold much in this crowd? Nope, probably not, but it's far and away more than I need.
So I now have 101 mounts... and I still have 35k+ gold.
I've read a few of your posts now and you seem to group all human psychology in to herding mentality.
People aren't only motivated by "keeping up appearances" you may in fact do even better with your gold collecting if you start to understand other psychological drivers behind player actions and activity.
I will take the bait, yet again. But without reading all 95 comments this time.
I highly doubt that even a majority of players who bought these $10 pets did it to keep up with the Joneses. Maybe a few of them did. I don't know. But as many have already said in your follow up post, they did it for the fun, for the enjoyment they get out of their $10 investment. That's enough of a reason in and of itself.
Now I want to pose my own questions in response: Why should YOU care what OTHERS do with THEIR $10? What do you get out of it? That information's completely useless to a gold hoarding Goblin. Do you get a federal grant for doing this kind of research? Or are you simply stroking your epeen? Are you going after a sick sense of satisfaction that you're some how better than everyone who "wastes" their money on vanity pets?
It's starting to look more and more like you're a more-than-happy slave to an "ape subroutine" that blasts the following notion in your head after every single-minded self-delusional post:
"I R BIG APE! I R BETAR DAN ALL OTAR PET HORDING APES!! HEER ME RAAAARW!!"
Sorry for the double post.
Mr. Goblin, you're indeed smarter than most other apes. You operate a blog that millions(?) of visitors read every month(year?). I and a majority of the posters here only post at such blogs. If you'd wanted to, you probably could have turned a tidy profit from this little blog of yours.
So by creating such ridiculous posts week after week, you've actually created a potential gold mine for yourself. Not that you need it, of course, in or out of game.
You must get immense satisfaction from posting such non-sense and getting readership from it too. Other wise why would you create yet another post later on, harping about virtually the same point, in spite of tons of comments proving you wrong?
So you get your epeen stroked, your delusion is still completely unshaken, AND you pad your blog with a couple more readers. Win-win-win for the Greedy Goblin.
PS: Since I've posted 3 times already calling you out on YOUR bullshit, I should at least leave a handle you can call MY bullshit out with, right?
This was interesting because my ten year old collects pets, because she thinks they are fun to have. She doesn't care at all about what others think.
You are getting hits on this old post because someone linked to it from Shamus 20 sided blog, but I think you really missed the point.
I don't care at all about aesthetics so I sure didn't understood the first time I went to the thottbot page of the mount of winterspring, I was expecting to see "what does this mount more than the normal ones ?" "Nothing" "then why would someone spend hours of insanely boring farming (like, obviously just made this way so the player is forced to pay more of time of play) to get this mount for dozens of time more than the normal mount, especially if he has one already ?" "no idea" and instead I saw "I spent all my month of december to get this mount for christmas, I'm so happy" and things like that like "this mount is so nice !"(even if it's the same as the elves in more simple, most likely if the skins of this mount and the one of the elves was reversed they would still chose this one for an idea that, well, I may find all the reasons possible but none of them makes sense in my head), the least I can't say is that I was surprised.
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