Elnia, contributor of Pink Pigtail Inn wrote an interesting post. Detroit crafted cars that were all nice and fancy, but last only 3 years. They were slowly beaten by Japanese car manufacturers who created cars that last 10+ years. They were simply more economical. Elnia prefers Japanese cars. Me too.
Still, Detroit was pretty fine with its "3-years of fancy" method until the economic crisis. Elnia, me and several others see cars as means to get "from point A to point B, worn out or broken cars become nothing but expensive lawn ornaments". However most people see their cars as status symbols. They love their shiny and new car, and they prefer this over those "boring econoboxes". If it was up to them, Detroit would still be making billions of dollars in profit.
They lacked not the will, but the mean. The people who would pay a load of money for and expensive lawn ornament simply no longer could afford it. Oh wait, they never did, but banks gave them loans. Not anymore. Now these people are riding used Japanese cars. Not because they no longer want to show their new epic mount. Not because they were convinced that they should be more frugal, due to the recession. Simply because they were forced. They must get from point A to point B, so they must have a car. And they could not afford a better one.
Elnia would love a long-lasting MMO, where previous achievements are not meaningless things in an "obsolate abomination". I would love that too. But we, - who love Japanese cars - are a minority. The majority wants shiny and new things for no effort.
There is no such thing as "economic crisis" in WoW. Blizzard can give all titles and top gear to anyone with a click (and in 3.2, they will do). Blizzard could create a great game. It would have 1M subscribers. I would love it. Blizzard executives wouldn't.
Are we hopeless then? Can't we do anything?
Of course we can. After all, the social does not want the shiny and new car/gear itself. He wants the "coolness" feeling. He wants to be observed as "winner", "cool", "pro" by peers. We are the peers. We can control this resource. All you have to do is:
- LFM HC Violet hold, link [The Fall of Naxxramas]
- lol dud why cant I go, I can do VH :DDD
- everyone can do VH, we could 4-man it, I just don't want to play with you
- rolf why?
- because if you don't have [The Fall of Naxxramas], you are either a new player/casual, who should beat the content with similar players, and not boosted by Ulduar raiders. Good luck, have fun, and be proud when succeed! If you are not new/casual, you are a complete failure and I don't want to be with you.
- cmon, don't be jerk, I need epixLOL
- what you need is brain. Now piss off!
The reign of the fancy cars ended when people stopped handing out loans to everybody. The reign of free epix will end when people stop handing out "respect" to the M&S. In a world where only successful efforts are respected, the "cool dudes" could not exist and leave. Of course Blizzard could keep them, by removing all content, making sure that every breathing person can reach anything, but that way they would only make their game "not cool", I mean "You play WoW? What a sucker?"
Want a Honda-Game? Stop handing out subprime respect!
PS Something great in 3.2: extended raid lockouts. So if you are a casual (play little), you can still beat anything, in your own pace. So there goes "I have a healthy real life, that's why I can't have [The Fall of Naxxramas]".
Still, Detroit was pretty fine with its "3-years of fancy" method until the economic crisis. Elnia, me and several others see cars as means to get "from point A to point B, worn out or broken cars become nothing but expensive lawn ornaments". However most people see their cars as status symbols. They love their shiny and new car, and they prefer this over those "boring econoboxes". If it was up to them, Detroit would still be making billions of dollars in profit.
They lacked not the will, but the mean. The people who would pay a load of money for and expensive lawn ornament simply no longer could afford it. Oh wait, they never did, but banks gave them loans. Not anymore. Now these people are riding used Japanese cars. Not because they no longer want to show their new epic mount. Not because they were convinced that they should be more frugal, due to the recession. Simply because they were forced. They must get from point A to point B, so they must have a car. And they could not afford a better one.
Elnia would love a long-lasting MMO, where previous achievements are not meaningless things in an "obsolate abomination". I would love that too. But we, - who love Japanese cars - are a minority. The majority wants shiny and new things for no effort.
There is no such thing as "economic crisis" in WoW. Blizzard can give all titles and top gear to anyone with a click (and in 3.2, they will do). Blizzard could create a great game. It would have 1M subscribers. I would love it. Blizzard executives wouldn't.
Are we hopeless then? Can't we do anything?
Of course we can. After all, the social does not want the shiny and new car/gear itself. He wants the "coolness" feeling. He wants to be observed as "winner", "cool", "pro" by peers. We are the peers. We can control this resource. All you have to do is:
- LFM HC Violet hold, link [The Fall of Naxxramas]
- lol dud why cant I go, I can do VH :DDD
- everyone can do VH, we could 4-man it, I just don't want to play with you
- rolf why?
- because if you don't have [The Fall of Naxxramas], you are either a new player/casual, who should beat the content with similar players, and not boosted by Ulduar raiders. Good luck, have fun, and be proud when succeed! If you are not new/casual, you are a complete failure and I don't want to be with you.
- cmon, don't be jerk, I need epixLOL
- what you need is brain. Now piss off!
The reign of the fancy cars ended when people stopped handing out loans to everybody. The reign of free epix will end when people stop handing out "respect" to the M&S. In a world where only successful efforts are respected, the "cool dudes" could not exist and leave. Of course Blizzard could keep them, by removing all content, making sure that every breathing person can reach anything, but that way they would only make their game "not cool", I mean "You play WoW? What a sucker?"
Want a Honda-Game? Stop handing out subprime respect!
PS Something great in 3.2: extended raid lockouts. So if you are a casual (play little), you can still beat anything, in your own pace. So there goes "I have a healthy real life, that's why I can't have [The Fall of Naxxramas]".
34 comments:
Bravo. Finally someone as libertarian as myself. However, wasn't this supposed to be about making lots of money? I only made 5k this week (sadface) got lots of speculatory stuff pocketed for 3.2 patch day though :)
Enjoy your blog but the posts have been a bit whiny lately. We get it, you don't like wellfare epics. I doubt that's going to change the way winds are blowing.
Zanathos:
The same goes for comments like yours, I think. We get it, you don't like Gevlon's philosophy posts, but I doubt that'll stop Gevlon from posting them.
What you can do, is simply look at the genre at the end of each new post. If it says "philosophy", then just skip it.
Wow, that is such a shocking misunderstanding of the US auto industry and the auto industry in general that I don't even know where to start. Did you just make up a story that kind of parallels what you wanted to complain about then stick detroit on the front of it?
Wow, that is such a shocking misunderstanding of the US auto industry and the auto industry in general that I don't even know where to start.
Really? That sounds like a topic for a great post. You could start by explaining your take on the whole GM mess.
An interesting comparison, but it seems backwards to me. Blizzard DOES make a Honda Accord, and that's exactly what Gevlon dislikes about their game. WoW is a game that has widespread appeal and is explicitly designed to allow a ton of people to play. There is not a ton of prestige attached to having "epics" (or a Honda Accord) because they are relatively easy to get. The small market game with difficult to obtain items that appeals to Gevlon is the fancy car that doesn't have a lot of practical purpose. The Honda Accord (and WoW) are designed to get the job done, not boost your ego or make you feel special.
That said, I think Gevlon's comment at the end makes sense...and it's really already how the game works. 3.2 changes aside, "good" gear is already pretty easy to get, and people already look for more than epic items. Making somewhat better gear easier to obtain isn't going to change that.
And I'm not entirely sure the car industry analysis is correct anyways. In addition to being lower reliability, Detroit's cars are also widely seen as being lower quality. "Fancy" car companies are doing just fine still (BMW isn't going out of business), because they are fancy AND well made. A BMW is an unquestioned waste of money compared to an Accord in terms of transportation, but you get something for that extra money at least. The problem with some Detroit cars is that you got a lot more value for your money elsewhere. The reason GM had a problem NOW is that tightening credit markets meant they could no longer try to borrow their way to profitability.
Funny how Honda is also one of the automotive manufactures that are in financial trouble.
But hey, keep twisting those "facts" to suit whatever point you want to make.
Gevlon, with your ideals, anyone that is new to the game should and would never progress. Then they would be constantly berated for not being the absolute best.
If you don't like "M&S", that's fine. The funny thing is, no one is forcing you to play with them. Hell, even interaction wouldn't even be necessary. Don't /ignore them, just don't respond to tells.
Given how much you rant about these so called "Socials", it would appear you get bombarded with tells and group invites every second of every minute, every minute of every day, every day of every week, every week of every month, every month of every year, every year of every decade.
So chill out. Find a new topic to talk about, a.k.a: Your blogs original topic.
by the way, these blogs aren't "Philosophies", they are just elaborative rants. Like this.
As a tank that likes doing heroics simply because playing in a 5man is a completely different game than running raids, I have seen a LOT of Naxx-25 and lately even Ulduar geared dps that did way less damage during a heroic dungeon run than I did as a prot warrior (!). And that although I never set foot in a single 10 or 25man LK instance, hence my gear should be able to output much less dps than that of those "high end raiders".
Since I haven't got a single raid achievement from LK, someone with the author's attitude would categorize me as a moron with l2p issues and never group with me for a heroic, so as not to boost me for free. Except that if such a person would actually group with me, he might discover that his 40 ilvl higher gear and raid achievements will just accentuate the point that skill > gear... and in the opposite way than Gevlon's M&S rants would like to prove.
WoW IS the Honda.
it is the cheep, consumer friendly version of an MMO. The game that is accessible to anyone. The game that runs great, looks decent, and is easy to get into and drive away... err play.
Your rant is 100% backwards.
There is no elitism in WoW. There is no elitism in a Honda.
your post failed.
adn this post takes an alternate character into account how?
People play more than one toon. I have an 80 Druid tanking in Ulduar and a 73 Warlock leveling. So when i hit 80 I am not allowed to join your group just because I have not doen Naxx? Thats crap, and you know it.
If they have the appropriate gear you should let them in. In case you forgot, H VH is an instance used to gear up for Naxx. Not the other way around.
What world do you live in? Buy an Audi , will last longer than anything you get from asia.
@Bjorn
Zanathos didn't say he dind't enjoy reading the posts, but its also very Ungoblinish for Gevlon to make several posts with the same whiny message. One post, maybe even a rebuttal post, were all that is needed to make his point.
I enjoy reading Gevlon's blog, even when I don't agree with him, such as his current illogical frustration with the recent changes to the game.
His analogies on this topic are interesting, even if most are incorrect or very gross exaggerations of what happens in actuality.
On another topic I'd be curious as to whether many of the posters, and even gevlon himself really qualify as non-M&S. I see amny commetns here, and I hear them in game about how "somebody else" in the party/raid is an idiot (M&S for use of the blog term).
I've said it, and many times it is true...other times I find after the fact that maybe I should have done something else and falsely laid 100% blame on the others.
Obviously no way to prove this as the only way is to actually group with the person and see for yourself. I can post Recount shots of Healing/DPS meters but thats a glance...and can be very skewed. Also first hand experience from non-biased people woiuld have to be discounted.
Not saying it is true, but as an example regardless of what Gevlon or his new guild might say, Gevlon might be closer to M&S than he considers himself. They may not kick him becasue hes not as bad as what could be in his spot, and his 5k per week is a price they are willing to pay. I'm sure if they were a true HC/progression guild trying to clear it as fast as possible (server/world first) they would probably not tolerate it.
I've been in similar guilds where as longa s eventually clear content before we ougear it (ie before 3.2 in this case) and as long as we are always making progress each attempt( each lockout shows improvement) than we're happy and most likely we do carry a couple, in my current guild, before Ulduar we were 21 manning Naxx for awhile, and most had the under 20 achievement (I was late tot he guild and I have it for some bosses)...we carried people evne then for free....we'd gladly put up with a M&S for 5k a week, and not say one thing to him that might hurt his self-esteema nd ego and upset the free repairs/pots/enchants his presence gave us.
We're probably not all as elite as we think we are.
You do realise that all the " cool " people buy something called a Toyota Prius so they look like they're doing their bit for the environment. The Prius comes from Japan. The rest of the world have always known American cars were shite.
You know, I kind of miss when Gevlon talked how to make money at WoW, before he shifted the focus of his blog to whining about everything he doesn't like about WoW. That was the reason I was drawn to the blog to begin with. However, it doesn't have the same appeal that drew me here to begin with.
It's your call to dismiss me as a troll and delete this post, but it's still my truthful feelings on where this blog has gone.
Stick to what made this blog popular to begin with, your last 2+ weeks of posts have gotten away from it.
You know, I kind of miss when Gevlon talked how to make money at WoW, before he shifted the focus of his blog to whining about everything he doesn't like about WoW. That was the reason I was drawn to the blog to begin with.
Couldn't agree more.
Also, last time I checked, the official order of progression in WoW was supposed to be:
Heroics->Naxx/Sarth+0->other raids
You're telling me that you're going to reject someone joining a H-VH run (one of the easier heroics, at that) if they hadn't completed Naxx, which is the next step AFTER gearing up from heroics? That's completely backwards thinking.
The entire point of this post fails. Your blog has lost focus to the point where even your rants (which has been the same recycled rant everyday for the past 2 weeks- i.e. M&S sucks, WoW caters to them, here's some real world example) run counter to how the game is designed to work.
Troll post or not, it's accurate.
Actually, I think this is a great idea.
Next time I try to get a h-Utgarde Keep run together, I'm going to require anyone running it to have cleared Ulduar first (haven't decided if I'll require hard modes as well).
That way I'll be sure to not have any M&S aboard.
That should work, right?
Poll: If you spend all your time whining about M&S / Socials and not making money, are you still a goblin?
Let's hear it people!
either that or just change the name of the blog to "Greedy raider" and well be set.
Okay, someone asked for the GM problem. And, while part of the problem is "planned obsoleteness" most of it has to do with organization. When GM was founded, they bought up 6-8 different car companies and put them into a big holding company. The thing is, they never, and still haven't really merged the companies. If you run Chevrolet, you run your own car company with a big vertical chunk of the market. If you run Buick, you run another big vertical chunk. This is inefficient as hell, but they got away with it because they had 2/3 of the market for years. Then the Japanese got a big leap ahead while these guys were out golfing and GM never caught up.
On top of that, there was the problem with them being too generous with their benefits. This came from the Unions, but the end result is there are almost as many retired GM workers collecting pensions and healthcare benefits as there are people making cars at GM.
Finally, there's the quality issue, which was a huge gap in the late 80s and early 90s, but that has been closed somewhat. Now it's as much a perception of quality (Brand image) as it is reality. You can find a Chevy that's almost as good as a Toyota, and a comparable price. But Toyota will make more off of that car because their company was, and is, more efficient.
The basic idea of selecting your pug members by achievement is useless, as I have been in pugs with not only a bunch of bad players who had the naxx25 clear achievement, but even an absolutely clueless player with undying/immortal title. Before that pug run, I thought that specific title was a sure way of telling you don't pick up a moron.
Also, what about all the raiders who play a different role in a 5man than their mainspec? They might have even hard mode achievements, but if they achieved those as e.g. resto druids, their feral dps might be worse than a freshly dinged 80 with quest gear, simply because the freshly dinged guy actively practiced feral kitty mode for the last few months.
Side note about "Japanese cars" they are fancy and pretty as well. When I was in Afghanistan working with Special Forces, I watched a Toyota tacoma they had go up a mountain/hill that our HUMVEE (turbo charged) could not. Granted the HUMVEE did have a lot more weight, and in all aspects was a different beast. But that day was the day I made up my mind my vehicle would be a Tacoma. I came home and sure enough bought one, and have loved it sense. It is a truck, I can do truck stuff with it. In 10 years...only had to replace a belt. Otherwise the usual tire changes, oil and other fluids. The morale is my Tacoma is beautiful and not a econobox...
If you also want to get more into the economics of it all. Toyota has many plants here in the United States. So yeah some profit does go back to Japan, but those plants employ workers, and feed those local economies of those towns and cities. Many of the "US" companies have plants in Mexico, which helps feed down there that economy. My wife's SUV Endeavor (Mitshubishi) is made in Illinois.
"Detroit" and the economy crisis has a lot to do with older problems. Yeah the wellfare of the United Auto Workers who have priced themselves out of jobs. Who in a world 20 years ago made these deals and don't want to help the company, but want their 20 an hour facotyr line job, free benefits and 100% income if laid off. Which eats a lot of money by those companies...which the foreign companies do not have to deal with. Not to mention that Chevy has 26 different types of seats...Toyota has 4. The US car need better management, they got big and fat and have needed to get in shape to contend. The workers and management are to blame for a lot of problems witht he company and mess right now. Why sink billions of dollar into Saturn instead of Chevy (the stronger brand name)? Why sit there and not make your vehicles more gas friendly like the foreign vehicles? because they were in bed with the oil companies (last year, Exxon had record quarter 1 profits, while Gm had record losses in the same qurter).
Foreign vehicle markets have seen the trend 10 years ago and started working toward while the other have been stagnate and doing the same dumb old thing, which was okay 20-30 years ago.
"American" car companies also spend a lot more on print addvertisement in newspapers and magazines then do foreign companies.
So to say it is about wellfare and free epics, it really all comes down to how WoW is. It is a game that has been to cater to hardcore raiders, casual gamers, pvpers and then the last is crafters. So if youw ant to say the whole GM mess, then it means raiders do not have the fosight to see the horizon? To see the past and be able to make predictions? That new and better and harder raids will come? That mismanagement and the raiders (auto workers will be the downfall fo raiding?
I posted my comment on the wellfare epics...and the badge system in the previous thread and it deals with a lot of it is a fix for something that have planned. There will be more dungeon, more gear and content that will move Ulduar to "entry level" mode...it happened before, over and over in the history of WoW.
"PS Something great in 3.2: extended raid lockouts. So if you are a casual (play little), you can still beat anything, in your own pace. So there goes "I have a healthy real life, that's why I can't have [The Fall of Naxxramas]"."
Some strange reason I see this more for the hardcore and middle to hard core...think you called them the middle to high middle class....not really for the poor and dirt poor classes.
I see this as a bigger benefit for "server" and "world" first guilds, just my opinion. Not to mention..well everyone and not just for casual people. My guild runs Ulduar and does pretty damn close to the "top" dogs on our server. I just see this as another tool, which if you want to have the "morale" and "right" way of doing raids, shouldn't it reset everyday? Or everytime you go into it be a fresh raid?
Honda and Toyota had huge losses because of this crisis. The reason American car companies had problems is because of the legacy costs they have incurred for the last 30 years that Japanese car companies don't have. Also Japanese car companies make a majority of the cars they sell in the US, in the US. GM and Ford and Chrysler were crushed by bad management it really had little to do with their cars. also, Japan subsidizes their auto industry heavily (even though they say they don't). And are very protectionist you can't sell a new american car in japan although you can sell restored mustangs.
Your economic comparisons don't correlate and makes your positions on the patch look weaker not stronger.
I mean can we get a gold making post brah? please?
LFM HC Violet hold, must be able to do "Torch Catching", without fail, on a daily basis!
Why just today, I watched an Ulduar geared raider, fail Torch Catching on a repeated basis.
Makes about as much sense as the Naxx requirement, but there are "no carries" or "no slot buying" on that quest ... you simply have to perform the task at hand.
On our server, Achievement/Gear means little towards a person's competence as a player.
Gevlon really needs to do some research before spouting off nonsense.
Guess who had the most sales last month? A: GM (because they are huge and have many models).
Guess who was #2. A: Ford (thanks to the fusion hybrid).
Guess #3: Toyota. But the sales of their mainstay cars continues to weaken
Who is more reliable, japanese or american? They are both very reliable vehicles nowadays. In the 70s, American cars were not. That was 3 decades ago.
Who has the most fuel-efficient models? Sorry america, japanese do: Honda Civic, Toyota Prius. Give it a few years and the american companies may finally get a car with better mpg than the civic.
(you can find all this data through CNN money or Consumer reports)
One more: Who actually makes vehicles in america? Both jap/amer. mfrs make some parts in america, but both also make them in asia, and in mexico. This distinction is getting more and more blury, no car is made exclusively in japan or america any more.
The whole notion that jap cars last for 10 years so they only want you to buy a car every 10 years is very ungoblinesque. And do you think the jap car makers are stupid? Nope, they are as smart as american car makers or moreso. No, they want you to lease a vehicle, pay more than its worth in lease fees, then return it to lease again. That's their dream, both jap and american.
Honestly, go back to writing something you know anything about, or just do some research.
It's Gevlon's blog. He can talk about whatever he wants. He has no obligation to provide what you want.
The general point of the post isn't bad - but the suggested method isn't too effective. My experience is that PVP > 5 man > 10 man > 25 man raiding. I've never pugged a bad run with people running in arena gear - but I've pugged some real idiot tanks and dps in raid gear.
Sadly enough, asking for PVP achievements usually doesn't fly well on heroic runs.
High end PVP == plays better than most of their opponents
5 man == tank don't suck, healer don't suck, dps...might suck a bit
10 man == doesn't die most of the time
25 man == good gear
Interestingly, you now sound like a "top raider". You desire the status and uniqueness of being a "top raider". Blizzard wants to make money, so they have created a game where people have fun with their friends.
I agree that all of your posts now seem to support the "I am now a top raider and want Blizzard to design the game to keep me special and unique"
M&S crap if you ask me.
You were special and unique when you discovered a way to reliably make 8-12k gold every week and rode it to gold cap in record time. Now you are just another Raider whining about Blizzard taking away your special status.
So what have you discovered lately to make real money in game? Anything that I can leverage to increase my income on my hyper-competitive server? When I started making glyphs and following your method I was making 2k a week, now I have quadrupled what I am selling and still only have 20% of the market and still only netting 2500 a week. It is a combination of lower sales prices and higher materials costs. Then more people in the market perhaps because more are willing to put in the work now. What did you do to catch up on your new server? Your early business reports had you loosing money (in an absolute sense you were still making money by selling things from your old server) How did you turn it around? Or are you not posting business results because you are not making money now?
How would you handle that?
Gevlon, have you stopped to think for a moment about the possibility that if Blizz would make raids once again as difficult as you seem to wish and not provide any possibility for people to gear up, the guild you are in might have to drop you for a better player out of sheer necessity to be able to progress further and since gold or lower content wouldn't allow you to close the gear gap, every day you are trying to find another raiding guild that would take you along on their progression raids would lower your chances to ever again get into another raiding guild? If Blizz would implement all you wish for, you would be stuck with the M&S crowd for life.
Gevlon,
why are you even playing WoW?
What is it? Obviously you do not play this because of other people.
Making money off AH is ridiculously easy, and while you somewhat excel at reaching the gold cap with minimum effort - really everyone can do it.
I wonder why you dont try stuff like EvE where its actualy a challenge to make cash - all i've read on the blog was a short comment how it was pointless because you can get ISK for real-world money....
So hmm, this leaves the raiding theme-park content - is this what is keeping you playing?
Elnia's article was really insightful. I have no clue what your response is about!
That article was about the concept of planned obsolescence.
Oh, and I loved my Honda Accord and I actually cried when it got totaled after 10 years of use. I replaced it with a Civic. I love my reliable, non-ostentatious cars, and I don't personally know anyone who has anything good to say about Detroit cars. My grandma drives a Buick, but that's about it, and I don't think she's really a good indicator of American popular feeling, being 87 years old and all. The whole muscle car thing is way way way over.
If I had the money to replace my car, I'd buy a Prius...I think what people really want is reliability and sustainability. It's an aesthetic in and of itself.
Given the premises you accept, your logic is flawless, Gevlon. Assuming a perfectly self-interested world, the boosters are the stupid ones. However, there's room for altruism in the world, and even for perverse pleasure. It's not clear to me that either of these are atavistic subroutines, since they do not advance one's survival. They're products of the frivolous intelligent brain.
I organise my guild's raids, and try to include friends of guildmates who are not in the guild. I do all right with playing the AH, (nowhere near goblin standards, of course, but all right) so I even geared up one or two of them in starter BoE epics and blues almost from my own pocket. I usually take either a healing or a tanking position.
I am not a perfect player, myself, of course. But I do my best to perform well. I run gear spreadsheets, keep up on the latest min-max theory, watch encounter videos, try to analyse post-fight stats. Most of my guildmates don't. They come expecting stuff to be explained, and strats to be reviewed for them. You would be stunned by some of the gem and spec choices on many.
This may paint a halo over my head in the eyes of some, and I'm sure a big red SUCKER sign in the eyes of a goblin. But it's enjoyable, and I don't think it's even just me being a 'social'. I don't do it to be adored by the crew. It just gives me a terrific amount of pleasure to see people who wouldn't normally even get to raid to think of themselves as raiders, and to have some deep Ulduar gear to prove it. There's nothing more entertaining (pre-3.2, of course) than seeing 'real' raiders eyeball someone with T8 who does sub-3k dps, and wondering how the hell they got it. The pleasure is comparable to successfully building a house of cards.
The point of my comment, then - why is whimsical entertainment an illegitimate reward for my time/money/energy, given that WoW is part of the entertainment sphere of my life anyway?
That's just screwed. I'm a casual player, trying to become more HC; but the problem is that everyone does the same thing as you; "No, you only got iLevel 200, for this ordinary daily HC we want atleast 219 in iLVL. How am I supposed to get higher gear when everyone's rejecting my standard iLevel 200 gear, even if it's epic?
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