If you are a fellow businessman, you may not even know the word "grind", meaning the most time ineffective way of getting money: killing random monsters for their pathetic loot.If you are a fellow businessman, you have much more money than your guildies. And, unless they are hopelessly dumb, they will find it out from your crafted gear, Band/Signet of Kirin Tor, or your expensive mount (which is a shameful waste of gold BTW).
If they found it out, they will ask for help. And you should help them for two reasons:
- if they are stronger, you will get more bosskills
- they are part of the world, and helping the world is the only way to get a better world to live in
If you followed my older posts, you are surprised by this turn of event. You might expected me to suggest to /ignore these people. Well, if they approach you as "lol dud, could u hlep me out with 1K I need epix dragon :DDD", you should ignore them.
However if they ask for loan or advice politely, you shall not send them away. Here is the goblin rules for really helping people:
1: Never ever give him loan. He either cannot repay it, and that's a loss for you (and the world) or he repays it by extensive grinding. You want to help him and not push him into deep slavery, remember? Of course if he is fellow businessmen, asking for a couple 10K for a good investment plan, that's a different issue, but if he is out of money, he's a sub-prime loaner and loan is like drug to him. It makes him feel better but push him deeper.
2: Never ever start to teach him AH businessman-ship. While the AH skills are just as obvious for us as breathing, he completely lacks these skills (otherwise he would have enough gold). He can end up with very bad decisions, losing even more. Also don't forget that even we make some bad moves, losing money. We can afford it, he cannot. Businessman-ship must come from inside, you can't teach anyone to have it.
2: Never ever start to teach him AH businessman-ship. While the AH skills are just as obvious for us as breathing, he completely lacks these skills (otherwise he would have enough gold). He can end up with very bad decisions, losing even more. Also don't forget that even we make some bad moves, losing money. We can afford it, he cannot. Businessman-ship must come from inside, you can't teach anyone to have it.
3: Tell him to download and install auctioneer addon. Don't do anything until he made his first scan.
4: Check his armory profile for tradeskills. Using tradeskills is much better income than grinding. The further advices depend on what you find there.
5: If you see 440+ crafting professions with useful epic recipes, tell him to spam trade "Crafting [leatherworking] with your mats, blue 10G epic 30G fee". If he says spamming is really not meant for him, goto 8.
6: If you see cooldowned crafting professions like tailoring (moonshroud), JC (dragon's eye), mining (titansteel), alchemy (transmutation), and skill level is high enough, tell him to craft every day and sell the product. If he does not have money for materials, buy the materials yourself, make him craft it, sell the item yourself and split the profit into half with him.
7: If you see 375+ enchanting, tell him to buy ilvl130+ armor from the AH, disenchant and sell the dust for profit. Tell him the current prices for a start, since he don't have enough auctioneer data. If he says he doesn't want to risk that he can't sell the dust, goto 8.
8: If you see low level crafting professions (not fit into categories above), tell him to drop it. If spamming trade, or buying armor for disenchant is "not for him", tell him to drop it.
If you see two crafting profession, tell him to drop one. Tell him to get gathering skill to the dropped one's slot. Make sure that he has at least one gathering profession. If he has two slots for gathering, make sure that one of them becomes skinning.
Don't proceed until he get one gathering skill. Understand that he may grinded insane amount of time to level that BS to 420 so he is reluctant to drop it. Be patient, but don't make compromise on this. When he asks "Is there another way?", I use to reply "Of course there is, and you are free to find it. However I know this way, so I can only advice this to you. If you want other advice, you have to find other advisor!". After a couple of more days of grinding, he gives in and drops it.
9: Now he has a gathering profession. Unless it's just skinning, tell him to get gatherer addon. Don't proceed until he has it.
10: If any of the gathering professions are low (if new, it's of course low), tell him to level it to the point wher he can gather anything in Northrend. Yes, if he has mining, he needs slvl 450 to be able to chop titanium ore. Suggest to get a cheap glove and enchant it with gatherer. Of course don't give him money for it, make him grind for it if there is no other way. Don't proceed until skill is high enough.
11: Now he has proper gathering skill, tell them to sell on the AH what he has gathered. This "advice" seems so obvious as advising not to forget breathing. However most gatherers don't put ores or skins or herbs to the AH. They just gather for their own crafting skill, or maybe for the guildbank, but don't sell it. I was shocked when a "could you help me out with 50G for this raid repairs" guy turned out to have 40 stacks of Northrend herbs (about 1500G) and 2 bankalts full of Outland herbs. He was also shocked when I told him that his Outland herb collection worth more than 10K half year ago and still worth more than 1K.
Poor people has the "packrat" mentality, trying to save for even more rainy days. Make them sell not only their gathered stuff, but also their junk. Old gems still worth something, old gear can be disenchanted if they are enchanters, or at least sold to a vendor for a couple of golds.
12: Check their mount! If he has anything but basic faction mount (or instance-drop mount), inform them that he wasted this money (or the time grinding rep for it), and suggest him not to do it in the future. This way you can prevent the money coming in from selling stockpiled junk to go directly into a mammoth (or bear, or dragon, or non combat pet).
Show good example on this too, giving this advice from the back of a netherdrake or mammoth is stupid. I have only 1 ground mount and no flying mount at all (druid flight form).
13: If he is skinner, don't forget to mention that he can skin beasts killed by others. Tell him the spots where quests demands killing extensive amount of skinnables. Tell him to only grind skinnables. If he is miner, he should farm around giants, who are minable. Grizzly hills have lot of quests killing giants, he can mine giants killed by others. If he is herbalist, it's obvious to farm around bog-lord like beings.
14: When selecting instance runs, tell him to choose based on gathering skill. The nerubians of Ahn'Kahet can be skinned. The denizens of Halls of Lightning can not (some can be mined though). Tailors should go for humanoid-infested dungeons. Tell him to check the armory profile of the groupmembers before grouping and prefer those who don't have the same gathering skill.
15: Check buff food prices! If your server has serious raiding, buff foods and their mats sell high. Some of these food made of meat, it's huntable, and mostly skinnable. Other foods are made of fish. The cooking daily quest is the only source of Northern Spices, reagent of buff foods. If the prices are high, fishing and cooking have good profit. Tell him that he can fish, hunt and cook for money.
This way, slowly we push back the endless waves of dumbness. Don't forget, there are people behind the characters, if you teach that blood elf to handle gold, you may saved a human family from losing its home five years from now!
7: If you see 375+ enchanting, tell him to buy ilvl130+ armor from the AH, disenchant and sell the dust for profit. Tell him the current prices for a start, since he don't have enough auctioneer data. If he says he doesn't want to risk that he can't sell the dust, goto 8.
8: If you see low level crafting professions (not fit into categories above), tell him to drop it. If spamming trade, or buying armor for disenchant is "not for him", tell him to drop it.
If you see two crafting profession, tell him to drop one. Tell him to get gathering skill to the dropped one's slot. Make sure that he has at least one gathering profession. If he has two slots for gathering, make sure that one of them becomes skinning.
Don't proceed until he get one gathering skill. Understand that he may grinded insane amount of time to level that BS to 420 so he is reluctant to drop it. Be patient, but don't make compromise on this. When he asks "Is there another way?", I use to reply "Of course there is, and you are free to find it. However I know this way, so I can only advice this to you. If you want other advice, you have to find other advisor!". After a couple of more days of grinding, he gives in and drops it.
9: Now he has a gathering profession. Unless it's just skinning, tell him to get gatherer addon. Don't proceed until he has it.
10: If any of the gathering professions are low (if new, it's of course low), tell him to level it to the point wher he can gather anything in Northrend. Yes, if he has mining, he needs slvl 450 to be able to chop titanium ore. Suggest to get a cheap glove and enchant it with gatherer. Of course don't give him money for it, make him grind for it if there is no other way. Don't proceed until skill is high enough.
11: Now he has proper gathering skill, tell them to sell on the AH what he has gathered. This "advice" seems so obvious as advising not to forget breathing. However most gatherers don't put ores or skins or herbs to the AH. They just gather for their own crafting skill, or maybe for the guildbank, but don't sell it. I was shocked when a "could you help me out with 50G for this raid repairs" guy turned out to have 40 stacks of Northrend herbs (about 1500G) and 2 bankalts full of Outland herbs. He was also shocked when I told him that his Outland herb collection worth more than 10K half year ago and still worth more than 1K.
Poor people has the "packrat" mentality, trying to save for even more rainy days. Make them sell not only their gathered stuff, but also their junk. Old gems still worth something, old gear can be disenchanted if they are enchanters, or at least sold to a vendor for a couple of golds.
12: Check their mount! If he has anything but basic faction mount (or instance-drop mount), inform them that he wasted this money (or the time grinding rep for it), and suggest him not to do it in the future. This way you can prevent the money coming in from selling stockpiled junk to go directly into a mammoth (or bear, or dragon, or non combat pet).
Show good example on this too, giving this advice from the back of a netherdrake or mammoth is stupid. I have only 1 ground mount and no flying mount at all (druid flight form).
13: If he is skinner, don't forget to mention that he can skin beasts killed by others. Tell him the spots where quests demands killing extensive amount of skinnables. Tell him to only grind skinnables. If he is miner, he should farm around giants, who are minable. Grizzly hills have lot of quests killing giants, he can mine giants killed by others. If he is herbalist, it's obvious to farm around bog-lord like beings.
14: When selecting instance runs, tell him to choose based on gathering skill. The nerubians of Ahn'Kahet can be skinned. The denizens of Halls of Lightning can not (some can be mined though). Tailors should go for humanoid-infested dungeons. Tell him to check the armory profile of the groupmembers before grouping and prefer those who don't have the same gathering skill.
15: Check buff food prices! If your server has serious raiding, buff foods and their mats sell high. Some of these food made of meat, it's huntable, and mostly skinnable. Other foods are made of fish. The cooking daily quest is the only source of Northern Spices, reagent of buff foods. If the prices are high, fishing and cooking have good profit. Tell him that he can fish, hunt and cook for money.
This way, slowly we push back the endless waves of dumbness. Don't forget, there are people behind the characters, if you teach that blood elf to handle gold, you may saved a human family from losing its home five years from now!
22 comments:
How old is your server... The players on my server seem to be aware of every money making trick in the book. I believe this is because it is a well established server with players who have been around the block a few times.
Good post as usual. I think you only need enchanting up to 325 to do Northrend greens. I know for sure you don't need 375 because I am at 361 and I can disenchant everything but Northrend epics.
@Glen: my server is pretty old, though not really progressed raid-wise. So lot of dumb people.
@Cuthbert: 325 needed for greens, 375 for epics.
Kudos to you for trying to teach the man to fish. But somehow the whole concept of opportunity cost is very foreign to most people. They still have the mentality that if they farmed it, it is free...
Wow! Very different from what I would normally expect to see here. I like it! I like to help people. This gives me a good way to do it while making sure they don't become a burden to.... civilization in general. Good thoughts man!
My server varies from Low to Med.
I have made nearly 2k gold in about 4 weeks so im getting better at it my problem is if i do have gold i would easily lend guildies so i must take note.
You're going for a charm offensive to show that you're not quite as heartless as the rumours say. That's good. I always knew you were a nice guy deep inside, either you admit it or not.
Great advice. I wish I'd listen to it myself or give more priority to those things I knew I should do.
However gaming time is limited and it always end up in hard decisions. I really need that darn rep with the viking giants for the shoulder enchants. I really want more cooking recipies. If I spend an hour making business = no time for dailies = no rep. It's always about balancing. Which isn't exactly easy.
Easy gold making tip. Do the cooking daily every day. Dont buy recipes with the awards. Buy Northern Spices. I have been selling stacks of 2 spices for about 20 gold each. So, besides the gold you get from the cooking daily itelf, you potentially have another 250-300 gold or more. Not bad for what usually amounts to 5 minutes of work.
I usually do my daily quest first for the rep and then log on my alt to collect gold from the mail and sellling.
Lately I only got the time to do dailies. I decided to send enchanting mats, leather, and ores to my wife's toon. Oddly enough a days later she made over 2k gold =) just from scraps.
Now if I just let those mats sit on my bank then it would have just been a waste of space.
I'm holding on to the northrend enchanting mats till S5 comes in.
That's an awesome post. Great stuff in it. :) I have so much to learn.
Teaching a guildie how to make gold is a great investment from a guild perspective. In my experience teaching people that you can make gold without extensive farming makes heal/tank specs really attractive, people that otherwise would keep on with a DPS spec start considering tanking and healing because they can spec for what they find funnest, not what kills fastest...
@Glen - Any established server will have areas of the economy where large amounts of gold can be made regardless of progression. It's more about thinking as a businessman than knowing a few tricks. Economies change all the time, tricks that used to work yesterday won't today, but the real business minded people out there will never be short of ways to make gold.
But apart from buying whatever you want (cool mounts) why would you want to accumulate lots of gold (unless you are a gold seller)?
I currently have 60 mounts and I believe that you can get another achievement at 100 so I will buy more of them!
@taco
You're buying those extra mounts for achievement and mount reward I take it? If so, then you've answered your own question.
Savvy business-minded players often make the AH into a mini-game in wow, similar to how you make the "achievements" yours. I put the word in parentheses because what you're trying to do doesn't actually accomplish anything.
The players who save their money are trying to "accomplish" either a target amount of gold or a long-term gold making strategy, that's all.
There is always stuff to use your gold on. I am trying lately to keep as little gold as possible on hand. Instead, I want to have it work for me.
Otherwise it is like the old people that bury their jars of money in their yard because they don't trust banks.
Okay, thanks for the advice everyone. I'm currently leveling up enchanting. I'm pretty sure there is money to be made there. It's a slow profession to level if you're trying to avoid over-paying for mats.
I like the idea of helping someone help themselves.
I'm certainly not as switched on about making money as you are, but I get by, and Auctioneer has certainly has made a difference, in at least pricing something to sell - I don't use the scanning option but its still a good add.
@Larísa: after today's post, you still think I'm nice? :-)
@taco: you are dumb!
@erc2: the most important thing about the lot of gold is the BoE gear and consumables you can buy for yourself
@pugnaciouspriest: if you don't scan, the auctioneer won't have data to give you good information. Do scan!
Hm... not as nice as I had hoped. It started fine but then ended in a "I hate stupid players" rant.
Well I guess I was expecting a bit too much. Or rather I have to accept that we ARE a bit different. But still we can respect the point of view of each other.
Gev I have a question for you. I am interested in turning my main and alts into my own "factory". The problem is that I don't have any 80s and my main is 76 and doesn't have close to the amount of money for cold weather flying. My main is Eng/BS, I have a rogue at 70 with mining/skinning, and a lvl 60 DK with heralism/inscription. My question is this; should I first focus on levelling up my main and my rogue to at least 76 for cold weather flying, or should I just go to town as is with collection, crafting, and AH trading?
Thanks,
Moojahideen
you mentioned make sure one profession is skinning when they have two.
i was skinning mining and dropped skinning for herbs is this purely to do with tracking on mini map?
I track herbs and use gatherer HUDs to fly over the ore nodes as i can see them fairly clearly
To me i seem to make more money from herbs and my friendly alchemist keeps me away from AH buying raiding consumeables
hey there. I love this post. Its always cool to help people get better at things they dont understand.
I was confused while reading this post however, by the massive massive amount of sentence structure errors and words that seem to be missing. Im not sure what happened here, but some of those paragraphs are extremely difficult to read. such sentences as...
"Understand that he may grinded insane amount of time to level that BS to 420"
should be
" Understand that he may have spent an insane amount of time grinding that BS level to 420"
In no way am I trying to be an ass or rude to you. I simply think that this post is very informative but I myself struggled MASSIVELY considering the above sentence is one of so so so many in that post that are like that.
Just trying to help out with a great post! thanks for all the tips on your site!
Mike
You know on second thought. After reading more and more posts on this site, I cant seem to figure out if whoever is writing these posts can help writing with so many errors like that. If that is the case, then I have stepped over the line and I sincerely apologize.
If you can help it though, edit your work. Its genius but extremely hard to read and make sense of because not only am I trying to understand your points, but also trying figure out what you are trying to actually say.
again, I apologize if I was rude.
Mike
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