tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post8678107463962240911..comments2024-02-27T14:44:07.868+01:00Comments on Greedy goblin: A strange list of females in WoWGevlonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07072766785893313616noreply@blogger.comBlogger61125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-19666542572946217162011-02-08T21:50:55.411+01:002011-02-08T21:50:55.411+01:00@Yagamoth: Actually, it was consistent by pet, but...@Yagamoth: Actually, it was consistent by pet, but would produce both male and female results depending on the pet. It seems that somewhere Blizzard kept track of the sex of your pets, they just normally didn't show it to you. It wasn't "all female" or "all male" but randomly selected at some point (if that was when the mob spawned or when you tamed the pet, is impossible for us to know.)Winter Sealehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05624723709615780755noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-3348239706249556282011-01-27T10:55:00.040+01:002011-01-27T10:55:00.040+01:00It's more interesting to discuss the details o...It's more interesting to discuss the details of the definitions than the actual issue, isn't it? <br /><br />If elementals are asexual non-reproducers, how did Theradras give birth to the centaurs? You can't use real world logic, this is a fantasy world and apparently here even spirits can function as organisms simply because the writers decided so. Sure you can stick your fingers in your ears and sing "hearsay and gossip" until there's an official statement from Blizzard, but as far as elementals go, I think you will have to accept that they have genders.Nishnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-78794026052848110412011-01-25T14:20:00.425+01:002011-01-25T14:20:00.425+01:00Please see Keeva's blog post at TreeBarkJacket...Please see Keeva's blog post at TreeBarkJacket. She's responded better than I ever could. <br /><br />I enjoy reading your blog if for no other reason than to get a different point of view from my own. However this post is way off base, imo. <br /><br />Even just from a pure statistician's point of view, your numbers are skewed. You don't just throw out the "non-gendered" bosses from the overall total. <br /><br />That's not even taking into account the somewhat debatable stance you have on assigning "non-gendered" bosses.Satin Russellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07003103861143766070noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-72967182792744390412011-01-25T12:58:13.325+01:002011-01-25T12:58:13.325+01:00It's somewhat off topic but...
(wolves in Aze...It's somewhat off topic but...<br /><br /><i>(wolves in Azeroth are the same, you can't tell if your hunterpet is male or female)</i><br /><br />Before the Cataclysm there was a Ship in the Wetlands (The swamp Nort of Ironforge) where undead mobs cast a debuff on you, which turned you into an undead. When my pet-turtle got the debuff, it became a female undead.<br /><br />I don't know about other pets though and I'm fairly sure that everything is simply female by default.Yagamothnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-61972205202807016152011-01-25T04:50:07.990+01:002011-01-25T04:50:07.990+01:00To the Anon's:
Anthropologically speaking, pr...To the Anon's:<br /><br />Anthropologically speaking, products of culture (such as WoW) are called Secondary Institutions which reflect cultural values. In turn, these Secondary Institutions leave an effect on those who experience them, thus affecting what are called Primary Institutions (that is, child-rearing techniques) which in turn affect culture.<br /><br />So according to anthropological and sociological theory (which has very strong evidence to support this), the games that we make affect our very culture. <br /><br />It is not as though one would look at a female leader and go "wow they're right, sexism is dumb" but it's much more subconscious than that, just as we are trained by watching commercials to deviate to a specific product (this has also been proven in numerous studies).<br /><br />TL;DR Yes, the ratio affects us "IRL". This makes it important.Bithnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-70081798739383265752011-01-25T02:56:53.441+01:002011-01-25T02:56:53.441+01:00Being concerned over sexism in WoW is ludicrous. T...Being concerned over sexism in WoW is ludicrous. This is, after all, the game in which you define another player as your enemy <i>by their race</i>.Flexnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-81669243494732543082011-01-25T02:07:15.941+01:002011-01-25T02:07:15.941+01:00As has been mentioned by others, you have missed t...As has been mentioned by others, you have missed the Vanilla raids that have been redone in Wrath. Not just Naxxramas, but also Onyxia existed in Vanilla, adding a couple of extra females to the list.<br /><br />Also, of the four world dragons, two of them (Emeriss and Ysondre) are (were) female. Although not raid bosses, they share the same characteristics for the purposes of being included in your count.Squishalothttp://www.wowhead.com/user=Squishalotnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-63704621513358775652011-01-25T01:24:56.110+01:002011-01-25T01:24:56.110+01:00@Wilson: The argument is about male vs. female. Ra...@Wilson: The argument is about male vs. female. Race/species/fantasy origin/etc don't enter into the discussion at all, unless the species doesn't have a way to be classified as male or female.<br /><br />Dragons, for instance, can be clearly one or the other, so the argument ignores the race and just looks at the sex or gender of the individual. Alexstraza is clearly a powerful female, as is Ysera, while Deathwing and Nozdormu are powerful males. Species doesn't enter into the argument at all.<br /><br />The question is: Is it realistic to expect the fantasy realm of WoW to have a perfect balance of powerful males vs. powerful females, or should it be expected to be as imbalanced as real life.<br /><br />Imposing equality on a fantasy realm is absurd on it's face, simply because it's created by a person or persons to be what they want it to be. Some fantasy worlds are created to have only powerful male figures (and belittle females), some have only powerful female figures (and ridicule males), and some have both.<br /><br />WoW has both, in a ratio that seems fairly realistic, and with a huge spectrum of character traits from the respectable to the demeaning. Every character has strengths and flaws, even the powerful ones.<br /><br />In short, the characters in WoW, regardless of sex/gender, are pretty human all-around.Braillehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17308195595532614608noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-14996717424872981022011-01-25T00:13:57.902+01:002011-01-25T00:13:57.902+01:00I'm sort of baffled every time this issue is b...I'm sort of baffled every time this issue is brought up. No, it's hard to argue that there are gender equality in WoW, but this is a fantasy game set in what appears to be a psuedo-medieval age, abusing the tropes there for all it's worth. There's grey-haired wizards, battle-hardened warriors, knights in shining armor aplenty and all that. They're being used to tell a story, and not to reinforce gender roles or anything like that. <br /><br />I don't want to step on anybody's toes, but to me this issue really appears to be nothing but some people seeing a problem where they want to see one, because if you want to open that can of worms there is what I'd call a far more pressing issue in WoW - it's brimming with all kinds of racial tension, and it's hard to not be aware of this even if you happen not to know that humans or orcs exists, but where are the complaints to Blizzard about this? Is racism somehow more OK if the races in question are imaginary? I know I'm abusing terminology here, but to me it's hard to ignore this while feeling outraged about Jaina wearing skimpy clothes.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-47117468843746755872011-01-24T22:55:48.757+01:002011-01-24T22:55:48.757+01:00@Anon - ""Since they have eggs, they don...@Anon - <i>""Since they have eggs, they don`t have teats"<br />Should be true then!"</i><br /><br />Fail. By that logic, they don't have wings either.<br /><br />Harpies are not monotremes. The example of the monotreme merely shows that the presence of one biological feature does not automatically exclude or require a second, unrelated feature.Wilsonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-32267744241059381002011-01-24T21:47:03.032+01:002011-01-24T21:47:03.032+01:00@Braille-
Since exactly 0% of the members of the ...@Braille-<br /><br />Since exactly 0% of the members of the current US Congress are dragons, two-headed ogres, or giant lava worms (now matter how much some of them may seem like it), are you arguing that such bosses should be gotten rid of in the name of being "realistic"?Wilsonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-30862344778022887402011-01-24T21:44:14.642+01:002011-01-24T21:44:14.642+01:00Monotremes have primitive mammary glands with no t...Monotremes have primitive mammary glands with no teats. They are the only mammary with eggs.<br /><br />"Since they have eggs, they don`t have teats" <br />Should be true then!<br /><br />http://classes.ansci.illinois.edu/ansc438/mamstructure/comparanat_2.htmlAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-26011760002656994062011-01-24T20:11:01.196+01:002011-01-24T20:11:01.196+01:00@Ðesolate - ah, you're right, forgot the Edge ...@Ðesolate - ah, you're right, forgot the Edge of Madness.Saithirhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02121434574777329896noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-75949882024312691172011-01-24T19:17:11.563+01:002011-01-24T19:17:11.563+01:00I noticed you didn't include the now-removed Z...I noticed you didn't include the now-removed Zul'Gurub which featured several female bosses such as Jeklik(Bat Boss) , Marli (Spider Boss) and the panther boss, which helps bring up the amount of females in Vanilla content.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-20670174755828889352011-01-24T19:06:34.415+01:002011-01-24T19:06:34.415+01:00treant was added. Mage Armor, Long Word and Vanish...treant was added. Mage Armor, Long Word and Vanish were returned.<br /><br />book of glyph mastery, 1x major research and 2x minor research was enough to get them all iirc.Antinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-45178422883610603852011-01-24T18:47:52.630+01:002011-01-24T18:47:52.630+01:00Twiliak noted:
"Making female bosses is well ...Twiliak noted:<br />"Making female bosses is well and good however it doesn't absolve Blizzard from their lack of positive and strong female leaders in the game." <br /><br />Very true. But there's also a lack of positive and strong male leaders, as well! The only one I ever warmed to was King Magni Bronzebeard. My favourite leader is certainly Jaina.<br /><br /><br />Imraith Dos Santos made the point that "If we tolerate sexism or any other isms in our gaming world, we are going to tolerate them in RL as well. "<br /><br />I certainly hope this is not true. I have murdered, maimed and mutilated my way from Northshire to Northrend and back. I hope to goodness it isn't going to make me tolerate murder in RL as well.Dàchénghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02994982502333811797noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-19745266327641862712011-01-24T18:13:39.234+01:002011-01-24T18:13:39.234+01:00@Andru
"And Faction Leaders... I am absolute...@Andru<br /><br />"And Faction Leaders... I am absolutely apalled that Fandral Staghelm was just cast out (his interaction with Tyrande was a lot more honest and was as fair as one could get) and replaced with Malfurion, who is her lover.<br /><br />Blech. Boring, flat, uninteresting. In my opinion, keeping Fandral would have been a more deserving lore move, than replacing him with Malfurion, despite they being the same gender."<br /><br />I think that if you have a chance to read "Stormrage" then you may change your opinion on Fandral. Not wanting to give anything away, I'll just say that he's not likely to be a nominee for the Mr. Mental Health Award 2010.<br /><br />Also, Malfurion has just returned to the rightful place he occupied before being trapped in the Emerald Dream.<br /><br />Maybe someone can confirm this but I think Malfurion trained Fandral. Malfurion is very much Fandral's superior as a druid.Waynenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-34081012658574343572011-01-24T17:51:29.847+01:002011-01-24T17:51:29.847+01:00What's the ratio of powerful women vs. powerfu...What's the ratio of powerful women vs. powerful men in the real world, such as in places like the US Congress or big company CEO's? Does Blizzard have a ratio that's really that far off the mark from our real world experience?<br /><br />According to http://www.thisnation.com/congress-facts.html:<br /><br />"Men and Women in the 111th Congress<br /><br />While the partisan composition of the Congress is fairly close to that of the electorate, there are larger disparities between the Congress and the general citizenry in term of sex and race. In the House, there are currently 357 men and 78 women. In the Senate, there are 18 women and 82 men."<br /><br />That's 18% ratio of women in the House and 18% in the Senate.<br /><br />Pretty much no matter how you consider which raid boss is actually male or female or neither, you still get a better than 18% ratio.<br /><br />So, is this argument being made so that the ratio of powerful males to females in WoW is "fair?" If so, why is "fair" given a higher priority than "realistic?" Isn't "fairness" a social construct, anyway?<br /><br />Of course, realism can be side-stepped for some things in a fantasy world when magic is clearly involved, such as when you're considering things like reproduction. For instance, it's perfectly reasonable for a species like the harpies to have only females and still reproduce sexually. They just reproduce by getting it on with other races. The resulting children don't follow real-world laws of genetics, since it's a fantasy race in a fantasy realm, aka magic changes the physics and chemistry of the situation to fit their needs.<br /><br />Mass Effect has an alien species that is specifically described as all-female and does reproduce by relations with other races. How they reproduced before meeting another sentient race similar to their own isn't addressed at all, it's just assumed that in this world, "alien" may as well be akin to "magic" for the purpose of understanding things that don't make sense in the context of human sciences.Braillehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17308195595532614608noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-27637377251303860492011-01-24T17:37:11.786+01:002011-01-24T17:37:11.786+01:00The gain in female representation in raid bosses i...The gain in female representation in raid bosses is nice, but it's also relevant to point out that the few strong female characters we have outside that setting (and some inside, like the Eredar Twins) have also been sexualized and objectified to pander to a heterosexual male audience (Jaina, Alexstraza, and Sylvanas all now wear bellyshirts for no apparent reason).<br /><br />Is sexual expression wrong? No, not at all. But I highly doubt that Jaina was reskinned to show how powerful and confidant she is based on how much useless crying she does in late LK.Shannon Fowlerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10951230248691746480noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-32796998753706571752011-01-24T17:12:50.589+01:002011-01-24T17:12:50.589+01:00While it is true that there are more male faction ...While it is true that there are more male faction leaders, the following are often ignored:<br />Both the Earth Mother and Elune, two of the most worshipped entities are both female (assuming here that they aren't the same thing). Of the surviving 'good' Dragon Aspects, 66% (or 100%, depending on the unknown alignment of Nozdormu) are female.<br />Of the Elemental Lords, the only Lord with a distinguishable gender (Other than voice) is Therazane, female. Also, as far as I'm aware, 50% of the guadians of Tirisfal are female. Not to mention Jaina, who is pretty much described as being perfect in every way and good at everything with no downsides, as well as morally good, kind, beautiful, etc.<br /><br />Also, what does this have to with economics? I mean, it's your blog, so you choose what to write, boviously, it just seems like quite an out of character thing to discuss.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-16381795681940656252011-01-24T16:23:14.235+01:002011-01-24T16:23:14.235+01:00Technically, in a video game, nothing reproduces. ...Technically, in a video game, nothing reproduces. Every raid boss is marked with an IMPLIED gender. Some of those markers are titles, naming conventions, voices, LORE articles that mark their gender (on places like wowpedia). <br /><br />Remaining MC & BWL bosses are ALL MALE.<br /><br />There is NOTHING arbitrary in a lore-based game about having the AQ bugs labeled as masculine or feminine. Bugs have a gender.<br /><br />You are excluding data points arbitrarily, and that skews your data to the point where your chart may include maybe half the bosses in the game.<br /><br />Instead of randomly excluding things, you should actually take the time to look into each boss' lore (ie. the 3 bug encounter has a daddy, a mommy, and a baby bug based on how they are named, their size, & coloring).lissannahttp://www.restokin.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-60730000697404755022011-01-24T16:20:35.693+01:002011-01-24T16:20:35.693+01:00"(since they have eggs, they don't have m...<i>"(since they have eggs, they don't have mammaries)"</i><br /><br />Say hello to my friend the platypus.Wilsonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-13049315783691281652011-01-24T16:17:16.416+01:002011-01-24T16:17:16.416+01:00"Please note that the raidboss is the only po...<i>"Please note that the raidboss is the only position where a female cannot be placed with the intent to support sexist-patriarchal views, as at the end, we will fight and attempt to kill her, just like a male or sex-less boss."</i><br /><br />What planet are you living on? The flip side of the nurturing virgin/mother character is the destroying slut/witch character. This pattern goes back for millennia. What is sexist is locking your female characters into one boring, one-dimensional, uninspiring role or the other.<br /><br />How much effort does Blizzard put into developing its leading male characters, villian or hero? Entire books have been written starring Illidan and Arthas. These books examined their dreams, their aspirations, their weaknesses, their failures. They were villians, but they had depth. Major efforts were taken to make them interesting. Onyxia was an interesting character back in vanilla, but in Wrath she was turned into a simple vending machine - "insert adventurers here, loot epics there." No quests, no dialog, nothing. Sinestra has even less going for her - her goals can be summed up as "fulfill her husband's goal."<br /><br />Do I think Blizzard is nothing but a den of knuckle-dragging sexist pigs? No, I think they really would like to have balance in the game between males and females. Unfortunately, they tend to be lazy and let their female characters default to stereotypes while putting most of the development into male characters.Wilsonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-48710329026518753052011-01-24T16:07:27.208+01:002011-01-24T16:07:27.208+01:00"Xaxziminrax II said...
>(since they have ..."Xaxziminrax II said...<br />>(since they have eggs, they don't have mammaries)<br /><br />Logical deduction, I like it."<br /><br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monotremata<br /><br />Logical deduction it was, but when using logic, you have to get your facts right first. <br /><br /> "Treeston said...<br />Some countries have laws that force companies to have at least 50% females in certain committees. It mostly leads to females getting jobs just because they are female and the quota needs to be fulfilled. It's gender inequality turned upside down."<br /><br />This is true, Norway is such a country. Take a look at how this has affected their economy over time. Economically speaking, it has been noticeably beneficial. Just a point to ponder.Kennyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15011052678763696623noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-46914309606346130622011-01-24T15:57:59.824+01:002011-01-24T15:57:59.824+01:00Despite not getting the lore of every single chara...Despite not getting the lore of every single character right, (the community fixed that), point very well made.<br /><br />I think wow is simply reflecting the world right now. Women leaders are appearing everywhere now. My country Australia has the Queen of England, then the Governor General (queen's representative in Australia), is a female as of 2 years ago, and now our Prime Minister is as well.<br /><br />Brazil has a female president, Germany has Merkel (High Chancellor..?) and more.<br /><br />http://www.filibustercartoons.com/charts_rest_female-leaders.php <br /><br />That lists 18 currant female heads of state right this minute. If we assume there are 195, (exact number is debatable due to international tensions, Taiwan, Palestine ect), that means that about 1 in 10 countries has an elected or appointed, (not birthright), female head of state.<br /><br />Some people worked out long ago that the key to reducing poverty is women's liberation. I think this trend in wow will only serve to help Blizzard as a business as well.Kennyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15011052678763696623noreply@blogger.com