tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post860177786383107594..comments2024-02-27T14:44:07.868+01:00Comments on Greedy goblin: Highsec "carebears", rise against the Goons!Gevlonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07072766785893313616noreply@blogger.comBlogger45125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-11321180680254104122014-03-06T05:57:42.982+01:002014-03-06T05:57:42.982+01:00I don't hate the Goons. I used to read Someth...I don't hate the Goons. I used to read Something Awful all the time. While I was disturbed by their fascination with Hentai games that feature "college" girls, most of their stuff was pretty funny. But they like to push boundaries too far, they always have. It's their nature.C.F.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-43944208584060125312014-03-05T20:39:49.939+01:002014-03-05T20:39:49.939+01:00C.F.
You came up with the idea that they use the s...C.F.<br />You came up with the idea that they use the site to harvest info, that's not confirmed fact. They could just have easily seen the kill on zkb and gone after him, they may have done both the article and the scam, but that doesn't mean someone submitted it then they used that info.<br /><br />The comments are free for everyone to use, so again no confirmation that was goons. And the real life thing the "victim" himself brought up, by threatening people with his lawyer powers. The this is if test had done this, which they've done in the past, there would be no complaints. You hate goons so everything goons do you hate and you will find a reason to hate it no matter how hypocritical.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-59652609065399103282014-03-05T18:44:39.862+01:002014-03-05T18:44:39.862+01:00Anon,
It's not the scam, it's using the o...Anon,<br /><br />It's not the scam, it's using the official Goon news site to harvest information about the victim and then using the official Goon news site to crow about the success of the scam.<br /><br />And then using the comments on the official Goon news web site to post details about the real life person they just scammed. And then discuss in the comments contacting the person's real-life wife about his hobby.<br /><br />So...yes, everything that's wrong with the Goons in a nutshell. It's not just ruining someone in the game using legitimate game practices, it's making that person's life as horrible as possible inside and <b>outside</b> the game.C.F.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-40231402416502955102014-03-05T18:06:05.020+01:002014-03-05T18:06:05.020+01:00C.F.
A scam? In EVE? No freaking way! If scammi...C.F.<br />A scam? In EVE? No freaking way! If scamming a complete moron is what's wrong with goons then the same thing is wrong with most of the EVE playerbase. Even Gevlon himself talks about exploiting M&S for his own gain.<br /><br />I can't help but feel that if anyone else had done this, you'd have no issue with it at all.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-2142843548870465622014-03-05T16:09:55.604+01:002014-03-05T16:09:55.604+01:00Everything that's wrong with the Goons in a nu...Everything that's wrong with the Goons in a nutshell:<br /><br />http://themittani.com/features/alod-go-back-wow?page=0%2C1<br /><br />Even their "news" portal is full of gloating tears-harvesting...<br /><br />(Note that the "reporter" delayed his news article until after the scam had been pulled. Did the "reporter" alert the GSF Recruiter to the bonehead with too much money?)C.F.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-46931775583092958762014-03-05T06:10:53.478+01:002014-03-05T06:10:53.478+01:00@Babar: TEST had no unfair favoritism towards Dred...@Babar: TEST had no unfair favoritism towards Dreddit which is the point. NO ONE had any performance measurements. On the other hand in GSF everyone has - except Goonwaffe members.<br /><br />@Arrendis: asking for an irrelevant outside "performance" is what various favoritism does to cover favoritism. <br /><br />@LR: I do not approve the idea of no highsec corps and suggested several times to CCP to allow creation of no-dec, no-awox corps at the cost of paying the NPC tax. They ignored. Until they did, it's a bad idea, hands down.<br /><br />@TO ALL: actually this discussion is stupid. It doesn't matter why I hate Goons. It doesn't matter if the things people hate Goons for are objectively true or not.<br /><br />What matters is that most highsec players hate Goons like the leper. And because of that they join any somewhat successful anti-Goon movement.<br />Gevlonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07072766785893313616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-79613456479022078252014-03-05T05:57:32.582+01:002014-03-05T05:57:32.582+01:00You claim again and again that it is unfair that g...You claim again and again that it is unfair that goons play favorites with SA members. Despite the fact that there is proof to the contrary, and that all members of GSF and to some extent CFC are treated as well as Goonwaffe members. But lets ignore that for a second and concentrate on your "play favorites with SA members".<br /><br />You can become a goon. Pay for membership to the SA forums and become a regular poster. There are actually some pretty high brow conversations over there. And a collection of very very intelligent people that you might actually enjoy conversing with.<br /><br />So pay the membership and join them. Don't MOAN about meritocracy. Meritocracy isn't the only thing that works you know. People in the real world get things that they didn't earn all the time. This is the real world, time to grow up.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-14593500130017070292014-03-04T23:20:56.404+01:002014-03-04T23:20:56.404+01:00I don't buy your one player corp high-sec idea...I don't buy your one player corp high-sec ideal. First it denies the very nature of mmos, which is social. Second it denies the opportunities found in cooperative play and division of labor. <br /><br />Stating "any style of play but X is not valid" may not feel as crude as some of the insults the goons are slinging, but it is just as obnoxious.<br /><br />So if RvB was created, as you claimed earlier, to protect the goons from high sec wardecs (somehow), doesn't that mean we are protecting most people in highsec?Louis Robichaudhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02426040562395622140noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-22520461766557793192014-03-04T23:04:14.549+01:002014-03-04T23:04:14.549+01:00I have stayed out of this dialogue, well all of th...I have stayed out of this dialogue, well all of them, for sometime now. Trying very hard to be a good girl, it is so difficult sometimes. Your reasoning for hating Goons actually peaked my interest.<br /><br />1. Unfair favoritism of SA members, I am still unclear why this is a thing. I have an SA account, the only special treatment I think that gets me is a seat in Goonwaffe if I were to leave my real family in RvB. You have yet to prove how the pure blood are better than anyone else. Some of the biggest names coming from the CFC (Villy, Laz, Vee) aren't in Goonwaffe, they earned their honor the same way as most do in Corporations -- big and small -- by proving themselves. I honestly haven't had any silver platters with pretty things handed to me because I was favored more than anyone else (ok maybe I'm a little bad on the side, and it got distracting).<br /><br />2. Obnoxious treatment instead of helpful information towards defeated players. This is a PvP game, you are talking about pilots (I am assuming) who did something stupid and got their ass handed to them. Yes they will get trolled -- but isn't that similar to what you do with your comedy kill links on your blog? I think the fact that there are guides, programs, articles and a crapton of posts on forums, blogs and websites -- written by goons, -- shows that there is helpful information being provided. <br /><br />Honestly you cannot expect goons to curl up next to you every night and read to you about how to align when you land in the asteroid belt, or how to set standings, or how the latest scam really worked. Do your homework, play smart, have fun. And if there are any goons available to tell bedtime stories, look me up, sometimes I have difficulty going to sleepNorthern Misfitnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-15891581246669330232014-03-04T22:59:01.429+01:002014-03-04T22:59:01.429+01:00I hate Goons for exactly two things:
- unfair favo...<i>I hate Goons for exactly two things:<br />- unfair favoritism of SA members<br />- obnoxious treatment instead of helpful information towards defeated players.</i><br /><br />I don't understand why you say the first one is unfair. It is, in effect, merely the first step in the vetting process: 'Demonstrate to us that you are not going to be an unwanted presence on our Alliance forums.'<br /><br />Anyone can join SA. Yes, it takes time to accumulate a good posting history, but how is that different from the way PvP-centric groups focus on killboards? Those take time, too.<br /><br />You say it's anti-meritocracy, but they see it as one of the criteria - first, make the commitment to show you fit in with us. Meritocracy's about advancement based on achievement and contribution. What you are decrying is merely the <i>minimal</i> level of achievement they require. Just because it happens outside of the EVE UI doesn't mean it's invalid, or not available to anyone willing to actually do it.<br /><br />Why is that so abhorrent to you?<br /><br />As for the second... there are hundreds of new player guides out there, some written by goons. They've made their internal tools available to the general playerbase: EFT, EVEMon, GTS, all to help people get more out of the game and improve their gameplay. <br /><br />They're vocal on the EVE-O forums with frank, honest evaluations of game mechanics and changes. For that, they get mocked and told they're clearly only advocating things that benefit themselves - despite a track history of <i>exactly the opposite</i>. Who pushed hard for changes to the top-down, moon-goo-is-all structure that flooded the CFC's coffers w/OTEC money? Goons. Goons have been advocating bottom-up Alliance finance mechanics for years. Openly. Publicly. PVE-centric stuff. 'Farms & Fields', as we call it in the CFC.<br /><br />Drone Assist being a horribly broken mechanic that makes the game too easy and simultaneously no fun on a large scale - who was it saying 'this is stupid, it should change, and we'll go ahead and demonstrate how absolutely dumb it is by abusing it'? Goons.<br /><br />Do they hold an individual player's hand and walk them through being better at every aspect of the game? No, of course they... well...<br /><br />... actually, if you're in the CFC, and you have access to the Goons' wiki, and jabber channels like gs_isk and others, yeah, they do. Happily. Gleefully. During fleets, 'hey, that guy in the slasher has been playing Eve for two weeks. I don't need to tell you guys what to do' means 'shower that newbie with money so he never wants for anything again'.<br /><br />Do they do that for everyone? No, of course not. Do they instruct their victims? If you're new, they probably will. Most Goon gankers don't go ganking Ventures, you know. They ignore Retreivers, in favor of Mackinaws.<br /><br />Newbies are the lifeblood of EVE. Newbies should be showered in ISK and given all the help they could want. People who've been playing long enough to be in an Exhumer? They shouldn't need to have things explained - and if they do, it's because they've made no effort to understand the mechanics, or the risks.<br /><br />It's one of the reasons we've been so keen on BNI, and we're very interested in seeing what happens w/them in HERO. They're a baller little group that seems eager to learn, and eager to <i>do</i>... and hopefully, they can give TEST a kick in the pants and get them back to not being utter crap.Arrendisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-59888362249760011982014-03-04T22:22:42.280+01:002014-03-04T22:22:42.280+01:00Yet you chose to join (and fund) TEST twice, despi...Yet you chose to join (and fund) TEST twice, despite Dreddit doing the exact same thing in TEST. And you're trying to appeal to highsec players to fund a war against CFC, but you readily admit here (in the comment section, which far fewer people read I'm sure) that you don't care about highsec players at all, you just want money to keep the war going.<br /><br />This is what I mean by extreme hypocrisy. Why should anyone gather under your banner when you say one thing, but do the complete opposite?Babarnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-83059837216368462372014-03-04T22:06:05.868+01:002014-03-04T22:06:05.868+01:00@Arrendis, Babar: EVE is a PvP game. Strong lootin...@Arrendis, Babar: EVE is a PvP game. Strong looting the weak is normal. Go to a Counterstrike match and cry about being shot at!<br /><br />I don't hate Goons for evicting TEST from Fountain, despite I was there. I don't hate Goons for B-R. I don't hate them for OTEC. I don't hate them for shooting a 2B+ freighter for its loot. That's playing the game. <br /><br />If you have something and foolishly leave it undefended, you had it coming. Marmite just does what it has to do with those who simply can't understand "DON'T DO HIGHSEC PVE IN A PLAYER CORP (except 1-man corp)". <br /><br />I hate Goons for exactly two things:<br />- unfair favoritism of SA members<br />- obnoxious treatment instead of helpful information towards defeated players.<br /><br />Gevlonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07072766785893313616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-27238636348133075802014-03-04T21:47:33.488+01:002014-03-04T21:47:33.488+01:00Do you not see the extreme hypocrisy in saying &q...Do you not see the extreme hypocrisy in saying "Also, to cover up their PvE nature, Goons are extremely obnoxious towards other PvE players. While other alliances just ignore and dismiss PvE as playstyle, Goons go great length to hurt such players for little personal gain." when you fund an alliance they does orders of magnitude more damage to highsec pve players? And even if you don't, do you see why so many say this has nothing to do with highsec or pve, but rather your personal issue with GSF? I mean, you joined TEST twice, and they participated in the exact same things, they recruitment scammed, Dreddit was just as much outside the rules in TEST as you claim Goonwaffe is in GSF.<br /><br />You're trying to address all highsec pve players here, but what you really mean is "Highsec traders in neutral corps". And somehow it's ok for Marmite to wardec a small defenseless pve corp, because they wouldn't pay for them anyway. There's no logic here, other than you trying to hurt CFC and trying to create a narrative around it, which is falling apart around you.Babarnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-36219224021240591702014-03-04T21:29:51.605+01:002014-03-04T21:29:51.605+01:00I made lot of ISK in highsec and never had any tro...<i>I made lot of ISK in highsec and never had any trouble with Marmite.</i><br /><br />Didn't you make most of your money in EVE station-trading? Very different circumstances.Arrendisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-60381700503060987902014-03-04T21:15:16.756+01:002014-03-04T21:15:16.756+01:00@Babar: yes Marmite might wardec Joe Jim and Jack ...@Babar: yes Marmite might wardec Joe Jim and Jack who mine in a corp and dream of one day affording an Orca. But they are unlikely be able to donate anyway.<br /><br />I'm thinking about those who make the "EVE production graph" big in highsec. I made lot of ISK in highsec and never had any trouble with Marmite.<br /><br />@Arrendis: no. Competition and selfishness aren't obnoxious. Ruthless sometimes, as zero sum games mean one wins, other loses. But you have the option of being the winner, or simply stepping aside. A selfish one won't go out of his way to harm you. An obnoxious does. Most people aren't obnoxious. Not even in EVE. PL, Nulli, Solar aren't obnoxious. Sure, they'd take my Sov if I had any. Or loot my wreck if I'd jump into their fleet. But they don't go out of their way to gank a newbie's Venture for lols.Gevlonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07072766785893313616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-15191727949955275092014-03-04T21:00:44.156+01:002014-03-04T21:00:44.156+01:00@Tavi: I told many times that "industry corps...<i>@Tavi: I told many times that "industry corps" are not supported by the game mechanics. I'm in the NPC corp for a reason. Being in corp with another industrial player has zero benefit over just having a chat channel. The cost is wardec and awox.</i><br /><br />Right, because the ability to pool resources reliably and easily via Corporate Hangars and the Corp Wallet, that's not a benefit for a small group of miners that's working on getting an orca, for example.<br /><br />Or wanting to set up a POS for research slots because all the ones in the stations are almost permanently occupied. (Need those corp standings high enough.)<br /><br />Or any of the dozens of things industrial corps actually <i>do</i> together beyond just sitting waiting to be ganked.<br /><br />If you're playing solo, then staying in an NPC corp is fine. If you're not at all discriminating about who you associate with, staying in an NPC corp is almost necessary. If you're playing with a consistent group of friends, especially people you know from outside EVE... then no, the NPC corp is definitely <i>not</i> the way to go.<br /><br />Just don't open your corp up to people you don't know. If you want to be able to recruit, come up with a vetting process that doesn't expose the assets of your regular joe pilot to risk. Something like, I dunno, only recruit people you know outside of the game first. Maybe people you work with. Maybe people you get to know first through hobbies.<br /><br />Maybe get to know them first on an internet forum where being stupid and useless gets called out for what it is? I know most of the core group I fly with started off that way in WoW, raiding with <a href="http://leftoversraiding.org/index.php" rel="nofollow">Leftovers</a> in Vanilla (and in some cases, running the org as we grew to a few thousand raiders in late BC/LK - not sustainable in the face of the changes Blizz made to raiding, alas).<br /><br />Of course, doing things like that <i>might</i> seem exclusionary and a denial of meritocracy, but you know... someone who's not willing to jump through minimal hoops is already showing themselves as more in it for themselves than willing to actually commit for the group. :/Arrendisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-42574468507945646712014-03-04T20:41:33.533+01:002014-03-04T20:41:33.533+01:00ENL-I, Dingo and the rest couldn't join. They ...<br /><i>ENL-I, Dingo and the rest couldn't join. They could become pets. They are constantly monitored and evaluated. Would they become useless, they'd be purged as many before them. But not the Goons themselves. They are openly useless and can stay.</i><br /><br />They most certainly did join CONDI. They are in Goonswarm, with all of the attendent perks and responsibilities. As for whether members of Waffe can be 'openly useless' and stay... you do know Waffe just conducted another of their 'we finished another war, who was fucking useless?' purges when we came back northwest, right?Arrendisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-91560240152143115162014-03-04T20:41:02.567+01:002014-03-04T20:41:02.567+01:00@Arrendis: I never objected anyone blowing anythin...<i>@Arrendis: I never objected anyone blowing anything up. I would be quite a hypocrite if I'd blame Goons for ganking. Good players pwning bad ones is common in every game. However everyone else then gives helpful advice how to stop being bad at the game, while Goons purposefully lie: "you died because we are stronger and there is nothing you can do about it". Well, I'm just doing something about it.</i><br /><br />No, that's not at <i>all</i> what Goons say when they're ganking. What they tend to say is 'you died because you were stupid', and stupid takes a lot of forms. Not doing due diligence and letting one of Boat's awoxing alts into your corp? You were stupid. 2 or more CFC members showed up in the system you're mining in, and you didn't at <i>least</i> align to station so you could try to dock up if they appeared in nearby space? (And your highsec mining corp doesn't set standings that let you see when 'the bad guys' show up?) That's stupid. You paid a ridiculous sum of ISK to join CONDI, and it was a scam? You were stupid.<br /><br />What's more, all of these things, these simple measures to protect themselves, are things the Goons openly advise people to do, be it on the EVE-O forums, TMDC, or elsewhere. Heck, the recruitment page says in bright red letters "If you gave isk to join GoonWaffe then you were scammed and you're shit out of luck." <a href="https://wiki.goonfleet.com/Joining_GoonWaffe_101" rel="nofollow">Here</a>, look for yourself. Publicly viewable, and the <i>first</i> hit on Google for 'goonswarm recruitment'.<br /><br />And you know about EFT, right? And EVEMON? Amazingly useful tools for people trying to figure out how to get better at the game? Made by Goons, and released to everyone.<br /><br />Goons only say 'there's nothing you can do about it' when they're trolling. Are they uniformly wonderful people who'd give you the shirt off their back? No. But they're not Hitler, either... well, Solo Drakhban is literally Hitler, but that's another issue completely.<br /><br /><br /><i>Also, most players don't call others "pubbie shitlords" and generally be obnoxious. Yes, they kill your pixels if their interest demand it. But killing them for no other reason then tears is griefing. It's of course a valid gameplay. But rallying people against them is valid too.</i><br /><br />Welcome to the Internet, Gevlon, where yes, <i>most</i> people are trolls. Did you never go into Barrens Chat in WoW? Just because most of the people in EVE don't have the level of visibility necessary for their personal obnoxiousness to be on display to one and all certainly doesn't mean they aren't.<br /><br />Humanity is obnoxious. Each and every one of us. <i>Often</i>. We are fundamentally selfish, brutish, oafish creatures who derive joy from seeing others experience discomfort and embarrassment.<br /><br />As you've said, it's perfectly valid gameplay. So is trash-talk, which is all it is when the Goons call someone a 'shitlord', or N3 or PL line members refer to PvE players as 'subhumans' (And for the record, I notice you're not raging against that - personally, I find 'subhuman' to be a far more obnoxious term, and it's one the Goons never use unironically.)<br /><br />You seem to object to being called a 'pubbie'. Why? Are you a member of any uniformed government workforce? If not, do you object to being called a 'civilian'? Are you a New Yorker? If not, do object when we call you all 'tourists'?Arrendisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-90051388512224061892014-03-04T20:34:46.269+01:002014-03-04T20:34:46.269+01:00So this blogpost is only for highsec pve players t...So this blogpost is only for highsec pve players that are in neutral corps? I'm guessing most pve players are in player corporations, since this is a MMO after all. And for those players, what Goons do sound a lot more fair: They announce ahead of time exactly what they are going to do, and where, and thus makes it easy for an informed player to stay safe. Marmites on the other hand wardec small corps mercilessly, often disbanding them or making their experience miserable for weeks.<br /><br />How exactly are people helping pve players in highsec by donating to you, when you use it to fund one of the worst highsec wardec groups?Babarnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-30039324561288209882014-03-04T20:05:51.301+01:002014-03-04T20:05:51.301+01:00They are supported, but the risks often outweigh t...They are supported, but the risks often outweigh the benefits. Funny thing is, that's because of groups like Marmite who wardec them for cheap and easy kills, not because there's a null group who occasionally come to high sec to do a pre-announced gank.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-22455847613505138722014-03-04T19:56:42.770+01:002014-03-04T19:56:42.770+01:00I think you are approaching high sec industry in t...I think you are approaching high sec industry in the wrong manner. In null you have to dock up as soon as a red jumps in system. In high you have 24hrs before reds are a problem. Use this time for diplomacy. I have yet to have a dec last longer than a day.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-41152668896870396492014-03-04T19:27:23.319+01:002014-03-04T19:27:23.319+01:00@Tavi: I told many times that "industry corps...@Tavi: I told many times that "industry corps" are not supported by the game mechanics. I'm in the NPC corp for a reason. Being in corp with another industrial player has zero benefit over just having a chat channel. The cost is wardec and awox.Gevlonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07072766785893313616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-45292581071690924362014-03-04T18:11:04.078+01:002014-03-04T18:11:04.078+01:00I've been following this for a while and hones...I've been following this for a while and honestly thought it was awesome what you have been doing, but this blog has me thinking twice now. I've been in a few indy corps over the last year and the only group to really pick on helpless newbie pve guys is marmite. If you want to help the PVE players in High Sec you should be stopping them. Ever since you started funding them they have been using their isk to wardec more small industry corps even making a few good ones I know disband. If you stand up for the PVE highsecer then stop he real bully, MARMITE. Tavinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-42550986817330244492014-03-04T17:02:53.396+01:002014-03-04T17:02:53.396+01:00You know, I was skeptical about this whole thing, ...You know, I was skeptical about this whole thing, but watching the Goons massively react on your comments and the forums is really telling. If you were wrong or just ineffective, they'd laugh it off. They're calling you a crackpot, but they're not actually treating you like one.Hobnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-50606224538924006882014-03-04T16:24:05.671+01:002014-03-04T16:24:05.671+01:00I think they rather wardecced more nullsec groups ...I think they rather wardecced more nullsec groups (see that all renters are decced by Marmite).<br /><br />However I've always told that being in a PvE corp (other than 1-man corp) is a bad idea, because you gain nothing positive but open up for awoxes and wardecs.Gevlonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07072766785893313616noreply@blogger.com