tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post7908988891683383658..comments2024-02-27T14:44:07.868+01:00Comments on Greedy goblin: Weekend minipost: the coalition of GoodGevlonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07072766785893313616noreply@blogger.comBlogger35125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-38138613702882506832014-08-19T07:16:10.566+02:002014-08-19T07:16:10.566+02:00you really have no idea how ratting in null works....you really have no idea how ratting in null works. an afk ishtar costs about 250 mill. it will make back its cost in about 4 hours of ratting. everything after that is profit. someone that keeps eve in the background while browsing the net or even at work (like me) can easily earn 2-3 billion per month afk ratting. nobody frets the loss of an ishtar. if pirates become a big enough problem for ratters then the simple solution is to concetrate ratting in fewer systems with active standing fleets and reshipping to pvp ships whenever hostiles come near. that sounds like content and fun to me, hardly a reason to quit.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-32462805409984482632014-08-19T00:20:02.241+02:002014-08-19T00:20:02.241+02:00"They have no reason to unblue each other. Ea..."They have no reason to unblue each other. Each member has high ISK ratio, so turning on each other would naturally decrease it. Why fight another pirate when you can just farm Goonies?"<br /><br />Because, as one of the members of Battlements said, half of them hate each other's guts.<br /><br />Plus, there's a reason to fight another pirate... fights! Fights are a prized commodity. If you have a group that fields roughly the same numbers as you do and likes to fight - why blue them if you enjoy fights?<br /><br />If you try to pick on a big coalition's sov, they'll blob you. If you stay under the radar, picking off an odd ratter and have a good time brawling other residents of NPC space - you can have pretty good time.<br /><br />A lot of sov alliances (and even Goon groups, like Spaceviolence) do smaller fleets and like fights. Mind you, that would require Battlements to show up with something that's not bombers that cloak up when facing an inty gang.CFC Gruntnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-71638375811965189532014-08-18T20:01:00.060+02:002014-08-18T20:01:00.060+02:00Any plan of crushing the cfc by killing ratters is...Any plan of crushing the cfc by killing ratters is always going to fail. From what I see losing ratting ships is hardly cutting into the profit of the median goon. You don't see the same plots repeatedly losing ships very often and the number of kills compared to the number of ratters is insignificant - at best it is weeding out the less observant or able members.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-80112109830519261332014-08-18T14:44:25.877+02:002014-08-18T14:44:25.877+02:00Each member has high ISK ratio
Which isn't ent...<i>Each member has high ISK ratio</i><br />Which isn't entirely against goons. At some point someone will do or say something that someone else doesn't like and someone will shoot a blue and the coalition will crash. As much as I'd like to see a new coalition form, they simply don't have anyone that is powerful enough to lead and to guarantee the coalition continues if the groups start infighting. Goons are string enough that if one of the member groups split off due to a diplomatic issue, the others would have no incentive to split off with them. That's why you get things like the bastion forming up when the member alliances have problems.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-3648766912016212782014-08-18T14:35:14.437+02:002014-08-18T14:35:14.437+02:00They don't have forced CTAs
CTAs existed befor...<i>They don't have forced CTAs</i><br />CTAs existed before paplinks. They will definitely have CTAs if they start taking sov or moons, since you have to be able to guarantee a defense fleet.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-34669736699775215212014-08-18T11:06:08.952+02:002014-08-18T11:06:08.952+02:00They have no reason to unblue each other. Each mem...They have no reason to unblue each other. Each member has high ISK ratio, so turning on each other would naturally decrease it. Why fight another pirate when you can just farm Goonies?Gevlonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07072766785893313616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-42797865740189588332014-08-18T10:55:43.550+02:002014-08-18T10:55:43.550+02:00"So after a few coalition level whelp, the me..."So after a few coalition level whelp, the members will simply stop showing up on large fleets and just fly in small gangs as they used to."<br /><br />Yes, and then they see they cannot proceed with their main goals sov/moons and the coalition will be split up.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-73628995252784789932014-08-18T10:32:33.259+02:002014-08-18T10:32:33.259+02:00They don't have forced CTAs (and likely couldn...They don't have forced CTAs (and likely couldn't have if they wanted any, as they have no ratting space to offer to the members in turn of paplinks).<br /><br />So after a few coalition level whelp, the members will simply stop showing up on large fleets and just fly in small gangs as they used to.Gevlonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07072766785893313616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-46574278348060912382014-08-18T09:52:01.667+02:002014-08-18T09:52:01.667+02:00if you read their presentation, you will see that ...if you read their presentation, you will see that they want to go for sov and moons. they cant achieve that in small gangs.<br /><br />I highly doubt they will manage any success vs cfc, as they cant stand a chance vs the capital fleet.<br />it will generate some good content tho, let them come.<br /><br />these doctrines are lol...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-7782739025523054792014-08-18T09:20:49.405+02:002014-08-18T09:20:49.405+02:00@Gevlon
"I really hope that this coalition re...@Gevlon<br />"I really hope that this coalition remains a bunch of independent pirates flying small gang, just being blue so not killing each other."<br />Have you read their SOTA?<br />They already have a leadership chain in place, they are going over sov and moons, they are prioritising coalition fleets over independent fleets and want to work on coalition level income. They clearly aren't just being blue.Lucas Kellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03969897349629783605noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-9761386599635413952014-08-18T06:47:41.416+02:002014-08-18T06:47:41.416+02:00There's this magic thing called a forum, where...There's this magic thing called a forum, where the 10% share their secrets to being a well set up ratter with others.<br /><br />True, there are members more rich than others - but you aren't looking at the ability to buy one PLEX per month. You're looking at the ability to get a personal titan.<br /><br />CFC Gruntnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-19986818822723491032014-08-18T05:58:16.773+02:002014-08-18T05:58:16.773+02:00@CFC grunt: does the "pull of community"...@CFC grunt: does the "pull of community" pays for his PLEX too or pays his subscription?<br /><br />Also, the keyword is a "well set up ratter". Which is the top 5-10%. We can't touch that. But the rest will be massacred.<br /><br />@Bob: I do <b>not</b> suggest large fleet ops to this coalition. I do the very opposite: http://greedygoblin.blogspot.hu/2014/08/full-july-cfc-killboard-analysis.html check the bottom paragraph and http://greedygoblin.blogspot.hu/2014/07/battle-size-analysis-properly-done.html whole post.<br /><br />I really hope that this coalition remains a bunch of independent pirates flying small gang, just being blue so not killing each other.Gevlonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07072766785893313616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-13256018713785077012014-08-18T02:15:50.857+02:002014-08-18T02:15:50.857+02:00Meh. I'm a member of one of the alliances of t...Meh. I'm a member of one of the alliances of this coalition, and I have to say I'm not really enjoying joining your holy crusade because the goon didn't welcome you in their main corp with a red carpet, vivas, rivers of milk and honey. While I do like blowing up goon ships I have litteraly nothing against them.<br /><br />And now you've pushed for something I despis: huge and meaningless battles for crap moons and useless sovereignty structures, endless blue crosses all over the place. I was in an alliance doing extremely well in small gangs. Now this is about to be over because some random guy on the internet think he's a space pope and calls for a holy crusade for a grudge. I'm going to be a random guy no one knows in yet another blue donut. Awesome.Bobnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-40298769147035294662014-08-17T23:56:35.057+02:002014-08-17T23:56:35.057+02:00He won't be gone. The pull of the community is...He won't be gone. The pull of the community is too strong to make "My ratting boat got ganked" an actual reason to leave.<br /><br />As an addition, income of a well set up ratter surpasses most losses. Main reason why they can be so carefree.<br /><br />And, of course, you're forgetting members of the CFC who don't rat. Industrialists that do moons/manufacturing, research, scammers - the list is long.CFC Gruntnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-2889037723578722722014-08-17T21:58:40.778+02:002014-08-17T21:58:40.778+02:00He rats for PLEX or some dream ship (likely capita...He rats for PLEX or some dream ship (likely capital). <br /><br />Take his means to play or his dream and he is gone.<br /><br />Gevlonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07072766785893313616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-35876529269755409572014-08-17T21:41:50.256+02:002014-08-17T21:41:50.256+02:00"The line Mega of the "little Goon"..."The line Mega of the "little Goon" gets replaced, but his ratting boat won't, and it ruins him. So he'll simply quit CFC silently."<br /><br />It will be replaced at 150% value. Meaning, by just being in a fleet - he'll earn money. Few losses will replace his ratting ship if he still needs it.<br /><br />Plus, he rats because he needs another ship - not because he wants. If he doesn't need to, because his ship is replaced then he won't even rat.CFC Gruntnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-15949243063427806442014-08-17T19:16:17.673+02:002014-08-17T19:16:17.673+02:00@Anonymous: no, because other coalitions will lear...@Anonymous: no, because other coalitions will learn from the mistakes of CFC and fix themselves before someone else fixes them.<br /><br />@Lucas: no, because coalition ops will mostly fail. Battlement cannot escalate like CFC. If they trumpet 300 guys into fleet, CFC gets 1000. So most of their ops have to remain small-gang.<br /><br />The line Mega of the "little Goon" gets replaced, but his ratting boat won't, and it ruins him. So he'll simply quit CFC silently.Gevlonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07072766785893313616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-90656963577500842252014-08-17T17:58:44.785+02:002014-08-17T17:58:44.785+02:00@Gevlon
"you might noticed no coalition SRP, ...@Gevlon<br />"you might noticed no coalition SRP, no coalition leader and only a handful of FCs. It's rather independent pirates bluing each other than a monolith like the real coalitions are"<br />That's how it starts. Right now they are blue and will help each other out, starting some coalition ops. As they grow, that will become common, until most of their ops are coalition level. Then they'll start to make income, but then... how does that get distributed? So the largest corps will form a council of directors to decide where that goes. Wealth distribution will lead out with replacing everyone's losses (so everyone stays on a fair level) then splitting out the spoils. The next thing you know, your watching a coalition of alliances like any other.<br /><br />"but worth gold when they push F1 in pinnacle battles "the 1000 Megas". They are dumb even by Goon standards. Driving them away won't be hard, and while peace is on, they aren't missed either, the "elite" guys will handle everything."<br />Of course it will. When they lose their battleships, they get more isk than it costs for a new one. Your idea to ruin the median goon actually makes them richer by distributing the wealth from the richest.Lucas Kellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03969897349629783605noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-80781710548758544532014-08-17T17:28:04.724+02:002014-08-17T17:28:04.724+02:00So, if your plan succeeds, and goons end up runnin...So, if your plan succeeds, and goons end up running missions in Drakes, you will have to purge the next axis of evil with another coalition of the willing.<br /><br />Pretending that other alliances function differently than GSF is to be exceedingly naive.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-28791890325669418522014-08-17T16:23:33.769+02:002014-08-17T16:23:33.769+02:00Last night, an irrelevant CFC Pet by the name of E...Last night, an irrelevant CFC Pet by the name of Executive Outcomes clashed with the Coalition of Good in 6-4.<br /><br />Coalition of Good fielded 40.<br />EXE fielded 15.<br /><br />Coalition of Good was left to limp back to Okagaiken, their staging system. Their POS was taken down. While they were being driven away, members of their fleet shouted things about green killboards.<br /><br />Few days before that, Mordus Angels and supporting members failed to take down a POS in fade - despite equal numbers.CFC Gruntnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-27843803948078165612014-08-17T15:43:59.426+02:002014-08-17T15:43:59.426+02:00@Anonymous: the Goons follow the same performance ...@Anonymous: the Goons follow the same performance distribution as everyone else. 10% does 90% of the PvP: http://greedygoblin.blogspot.hu/2014/04/morlocks-and-eloi-not-so-bad-after-all.html So it's not a big leap to say 10% earn 90% of the ISK. The big thing about GSF is that they can keep the 90% busy who aren't much useful normally, but worth gold when they push F1 in pinnacle battles "the 1000 Megas". They are dumb even by Goon standards. Driving them away won't be hard, and while peace is on, they aren't missed either, the "elite" guys will handle everything. But when war comes with N3 or PL or HERO and rageping go out, there will be 300 caps/supers and no one in Celestises or Megas or Moas because we drove them out long ago.<br /><br />@Lucas: you might noticed no coalition SRP, no coalition leader and only a handful of FCs. It's rather independent pirates bluing each other than a monolith like the real coalitions are.<br /><br />@Anonymous: if they can't use CFC space, why would they bother defending it in bombless bombers. They might stay in CFC and join for fun ops, but they will no longer be loyal and donate their time to grinding.Gevlonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07072766785893313616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-32926286744699242302014-08-17T14:02:24.146+02:002014-08-17T14:02:24.146+02:00And what if they just have an alt in hisec, doing ...And what if they just have an alt in hisec, doing whatever makes ISK? How will your plan work out then?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-75851823972467027882014-08-17T13:23:28.322+02:002014-08-17T13:23:28.322+02:00So to clarify, MoA and co have realised that we we...So to clarify, MoA and co have realised that we were right and the only way to fight is to form a coalition? Good to know.<br /><br />And i think your be surprised how rich the median goon is. If you did somehow manage to make them broke, the richer guys would fill it in. I guarantee though, you'll go broke before the median goon does.Lucas Kellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03969897349629783605noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-6257706494718779552014-08-17T11:34:24.232+02:002014-08-17T11:34:24.232+02:00- we don't have to break the income of GSF.
...<i><br />- we don't have to break the income of GSF.<br /></i><br /><br />As long as the GSF (well, more so the CFC) have immense isk reserves and are running large isk prints, you cannot hope to put a dent in their war machine.<br /><br /><i><br />- we don't have to break the income of the average Goon.<br /></i><br />The average goon represents the largest segment of the goons - not targeting them means the already farcical contention that targeting pilots makes a difference even more farcical because suddenly you are impacting an even smaller portion of the membership.<br /><i><br />- we just have to break the income of the median Goon.<br /></i><br /><br />Aaaaand it still wont work. Individual goons do not care for isk. They care for fights. They care for fun. They care for silly randian nerd rage that makes them laugh. You are giving them content. You are making them more likely to log in.<br /><br />But even if they did want personal isk because somehow the alliance coffers are not enough to keep them in ships and fun - they'll just earn it on alts. And your attacks will make not a lick of difference...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-53029543295258317152014-08-17T10:22:18.342+02:002014-08-17T10:22:18.342+02:00@Maxim:
- we don't have to break the income o...@Maxim: <br />- we <b>don't</b> have to break the income of GSF.<br />- we <b>don't</b> have to break the income of the average Goon.<br />- we just have to break the income of the <i>median</i> Goon. <br /><br />If the little guys, the ones who want SRP for a T1 cruiser and who rat in a single Isthar or Naga are beaten out, the CFC can no longer field its signature 1000 Megas and the enemy sov-holders will be able to beat them on the field.Gevlonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07072766785893313616noreply@blogger.com