tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post7428309661358481374..comments2024-02-27T14:44:07.868+01:00Comments on Greedy goblin: Do we need hard modes at all?Gevlonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07072766785893313616noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-47572688078659182392011-10-22T08:23:55.664+02:002011-10-22T08:23:55.664+02:00I have an axe to grind with the belief that 'r...I have an axe to grind with the belief that 'resistance fights' are anything but a major PITA.<br /><br />For some reason, everyone seems to be glorifying those fights, but believe me, they were Stupid. With capital S.<br /><br />Why? First of all, the gear is only good for one boss. You collect dozens of crap to use on one single damned boss? If it is skippable, it will be skipped. If it's mandatory, it will breed resentment against the forced grind.<br /><br />If the boss allows you to kill it without resistance gear but with better play, the standard tactic will be of killing it without resistance gear.<br /><br />If it requires only a few players to get the gear (ie tanks), this will either make the raid lack those players (no one wants to work more for the same reward), or require the guild to come up with some kind of socialist scheme in which everyone works equally for that. (And then subsequently have the tanks skip guild with the gear once it's done).<br /><br />Simply put, a mechanic that requires players to build a dual set is backwards and not interesting. Not even for the hard-working crowd. After all, I've yet to see any hard worker enjoy digging holes in the ground just for their own purpose.Andruhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12265338942372933846noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-21692680413899790502011-10-21T21:10:19.957+02:002011-10-21T21:10:19.957+02:00How do you recruit new players into a top tier gui...How do you recruit new players into a top tier guild?Dangphathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00767725815265858008noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-24793537238603856442011-10-21T18:16:03.361+02:002011-10-21T18:16:03.361+02:00You forget what you are selling as a wow dev. Not ...You forget what you are selling as a wow dev. Not gear or content. But e-peen. <br /><br />The morons are kept subbed by giving them the feeling off beeing part of the topAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-11034802206614263952011-10-21T18:15:52.786+02:002011-10-21T18:15:52.786+02:00Hardmodes are Blizzards attempt to shut hardcore l...Hardmodes are Blizzards attempt to shut hardcore leet players who think that casuals are raising up to their levels. <br /><br />Anyways I came to tell you guys to stop hoping for any good changes in the current expansion. If Blizzard top dogs will come to their senses and realize how horrible their current design is then the correction will only come in the next expansion.<br /><br />So in the meantime leave the computer screen. Go to a warm beach and shoot crabs for funCrab Shooternoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-38517198774555482582011-10-21T15:43:09.364+02:002011-10-21T15:43:09.364+02:00I raid high end, and achievments are the last thin...I raid high end, and achievments are the last thing I do care about.<br /><br />I've you care for achievment, go collect stamps. Its the same reward, you will get more over time and can do nothing with them.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-48387477134489011052011-10-21T13:59:49.086+02:002011-10-21T13:59:49.086+02:00What you want to build is a game that pleases main...What you want to build is a game that pleases mainly the hard-working type of gamers.<br /><br />Is it interesting for Blizzard to do so ? What percent of the gamers do they represent ?<br /><br />You should build an open game that also please hard-working type. Not the other way around. <br /><br />Majority first, then you. It does not make the task easy if you want to build a good game, but it's not incompatible. So, think for everybody, instead of throwing an idea about a game that would please only you. Everybody can do that. Most of the time it's bullcrap.<br /><br /><br /><br />Stat increase must be exponential, to keep a real progression feeling (as #3 Anonymous said). This is now the ONLY purpose of equipment upgrade. Why ? Because recognition of your "hard-work", of your "progress", is handled by achievements now. Your achievements speak for themselves already.<br /><br />This feeling is paradoxal, see the Red Queen paradox pointed out by somebody in another comment (n another post). But that's what drive most people, it's a "The Sims" thing. That's what burn them out also.<br /><br /><br />And the downside of this system is<br />that it prevents people who did NOT grind old raids, for any reason (new players, players that stopped for 6 month, unskilled players, reroll, whatevs), from getting into the new ones.<br />Players do want to visit new raids asap. They don't want to visit the raid 2 years after. That's the whole point of valor stuff, since the end of BC. And Blizzard won't come back on that. You introduced the same kind of system to alleviate the downside, so you are aware of that already.<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />I suspect you are way more social than you want to seem, I suspect you just seek recognition of your "hard-work", how freaking social is that ?<br /><br />Anyway, if I'm right, why seeking recognition through stats on top of achievements ?<br />Don't you feel satisfied with a good achievement system, or a cosmectic one (unique skin) ?<br /><br /><br />Many players, if not all, have fun from the progress feeling. It is a self-related fun. So, everybody should be able to get a significant stat upgrade at the same time. That's what you see currently : HM players go from T10HM to T11HM, NM players go from T10NM to T11NM, players who don't raid go from a mix from heroic dungeon and T10NM to a mix of zandalari + T11NM.<br /><br />Stat upgrade is "automatic", and I don't personally feel most "deserve" it. It's just the new equipment, the new stats, Blizzard throws at you.<br />That is your point, I think, that's what makes you boil, but you shouldn't : it is unavoidable without making the game a painful grind (economically bad), and you should not seek recognition through stats.<br /><br />The hard-working scheme you have, is a game where equipment is just a key. The key you need just to be allowed to attempt raids.<br /><br /><br />Think about what represents for you equipment ugrades, and why you are so forceful on it.Ninahagennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-82500140588634328512011-10-21T12:36:13.001+02:002011-10-21T12:36:13.001+02:00@Samus: the more the better for several reasons be...@Samus: the more the better for several reasons besides the "epic feeling":<br />* less randomness: while 1 guy can get a lucky streak with crits, with the number of players increase the chance of the raid DPS significantly affected by luck is decreased<br /><br />* more people to decide votekick. I keep LFR model as target. A bad player can be protected by friends, forcing others to carry him. In a 40-man raid, you must have 20+ "friends" to avoid being kicked for slacking/sucking<br /><br />* less effect of DC/AFK. Besides the top tier raid, the rest is overgeared by most players, therefore it should be a kill with 1 DC. <br /><br />* more people of the same class giving easier comparison (silence the "i just damage little cuz ima warlock and blizz h8 my class")<br /><br />* more rollers for loot: less loot sharded<br /><br />Please note that in a performance based system you don't need to know the players you play with. There isn't much to organize, if you bring an applicant to a lower tier raid and he does well, he can be accepted, you don't have to worry that he might fail on Rhyolith driving.Gevlonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07072766785893313616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-36253389783681949502011-10-21T11:29:48.563+02:002011-10-21T11:29:48.563+02:00I do not understand why you would want to go back ...I do not understand why you would want to go back to 40 man raids. In all your previous analysis, I do not recall you giving any reason why 40 is better than 25 or 10. It just happens to have been the size in vanilla.<br /><br />I would argue smaller is better. It is much less hassle to organize and run, and much easier to find enough people. Especially if you are going to continue to have players spread across all tiers of raids. I think it would be a nightmare later in the week trying to find 40 people who are on the same boss in the same tier.Samushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02310391280860277082noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-62776341021296442952011-10-21T11:11:51.211+02:002011-10-21T11:11:51.211+02:00Does everyone really need to defeat the endgame bo...Does everyone really need to defeat the endgame boss? By allowing/wanting this doesn't it devalue the achievement. So not only do we not need hard modes do we actually need everyone and my granny to beat the end boss?Bobbinsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-77653082600058742922011-10-21T10:56:26.430+02:002011-10-21T10:56:26.430+02:00People don’t want to kill the T6 bosses when T8 is...People don’t want to kill the T6 bosses when T8 is current. It is the same reason why most games (let’s say Gears of War 3) might cost £40 for the first month but 5 months later they are going for £20.<br /><br />It is irrational but that is how consumers behave. They want to be playing “the latest big thing” whilst it is still current and there is a buzz. <br /><br />Yes to the solo gamer GoW3 will offer the same game play experience/value to the guy buying it five months after launch as it does to the launch day player. Yet somehow the guy buying it 5 months post launch doesn’t believe it offers as much value for money even though it has not been superseded by a sequel as it is still the latest in the series.<br /><br />With raids you are expecting players to pay the same flat rate for not only old content but superseded content. You are asking people to buy GoW2 when GoW3 is already in the stores and as we know, that goes for £7.99 in bargain basement bins. <br /><br />If raiding was still my chosen end game then if you expected me to run old content I’d expect the same discount as the GoW buyer. Charge the bleeding edge raiders £15 a month by all means as they are getting extra value from the “buzz” of playing the latest hot content. I however want a discount on the “bargain basement bin” content.<br /><br />It is a separate argument for another day’s blog but perhaps the single tariff pricing structure needs to be altered. A blue poster admitted that raids are expensive to develop and can't be justified if only 2% use them. If LFR fails to have the desired effect or if your system was implemented then I think multi-tier tariffs for subscriptions would be the way forward:<br /><br />F2P offers you the levelling game, daily quests and AH. <br /><br />£5 a month gives you the above plus the back catalogue of 5 man end game heroics e.g. HOO, Tol Vir.<br /><br />£10 a month gives all of the above plus access to the back catalogue of raids and the latest 5 man heroics e.g. ZA/ZG.<br /><br />£15 gives you access to the current raid tier. <br /><br /><br />That keeps everyone happy.<br /><br />The casuals can no longer complain that a disproportionate amount of the dev budget is spent on the freeloading hardcore players.<br /><br />The hardcore players don’t have to listen to casuals saying “I paid for the content and have a right to see it” because no one is forcing them pay for it anymore.Coralinanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-68065840190484656222011-10-21T10:08:09.215+02:002011-10-21T10:08:09.215+02:00As long as you dont play with bots. You cant calcu...As long as you dont play with bots. You cant calculate the outcome of a fight only by gear...<br /><br />Even at Woltk Naxx Patch times. You saw that equally geared player performed differently. I had 3 Mages:<br /><br />same class!<br />same spec!<br />equal equip!<br />equal pc!<br />equal internet!<br /><br />At the end of the fight. The first mage dealt 5k, second 4,2k and third 3,5k. <br /><br />Surly the 1. Mage only had proc luck. Every fight for 12 weeks in a row.<br /><br />For your plan, you have to make Gear such strong, that rotation, reaction, awerness, gimicks are pointless. <br />Or change specs: Rogue's deal 90% dmg with their autoattack (and you will still see huge differences in movement fights, add fights).<br />Arcan mages only have 1 Skill to press. And so on.<br /><br />Even in patchwork fights playerskill is important. <br />For 10m you have to control buffs ...<br /><br />Sorry, that i have to say. The things arnt that easy, as you imagine.<br /><br />I can see your point with good preperation = boss kill. But i wouldnt play your game. It would be like every asian grinder. (look at their raidboss design ;))Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-9245216853440078992011-10-21T09:54:00.640+02:002011-10-21T09:54:00.640+02:00I think you're also missing out on just inhere...I think you're also missing out on just inherent variability in output. You're making it so that a 10% better than T0 is sufficient to accomplish the next tier (using your example, 5% better than Tn-1).<br /><br />RNG is a pretty major factor. If your crit chance is 30%, and you cast 100 times, your expected damage would be 70+30*2 = 130.<br /><br />However, the probability that you get <= 25 crits is 16%. So there is a 16% chance that your damage is only 125 (4% loss).<br /><br />If you approximate the binomial distribution with a normal distribution (and n=100,p=0.3 is generally sufficient), the average is obviously 30, but the variance (o^2) is 100*.3*.7 = 21, or stddev of 4.6, or 4.6/130 = 3.5% stddev.<br /><br />So with a single spell, and modest crit chance (not talking procs, or any other variables). You have a 68% chance that your results are within 1 std dev.<br /><br />So you have a 16% chance that you'll do >103.5% your base damage (same for a 16% chance you'll do less than 96.5%).<br /><br />If you are a progression raider, then you can just run the same boss over and over again until the stars align and you get your magic damage boost. (Running 10 times, the chance you've done more than 1stdev is 85%.)<br /><br />Anyway, my point is that 5% increase of throughput due to gear is not sufficient to drown out the ~10% variance just due to RNG. <br /><br />You can bias the fights, so that you are on the upper end (so you *have* to get more than the mathematical average dps of the group). Though then it means that once a fight is 'known' you still cannot one-shot it.jamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17344213294371886790noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-44609518688123843992011-10-21T08:44:06.462+02:002011-10-21T08:44:06.462+02:00I believe there is a game which functions exactly ...I believe there is a game which functions exactly as you describe. It is called Progress Quest (http://progressquest.com).Eaten by a Gruehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01741777795065029482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-38021333746807623632011-10-21T08:12:03.384+02:002011-10-21T08:12:03.384+02:00The scheme is complicated, thus probably has bugs....The scheme is complicated, thus probably has bugs. I've read it twice and still am not following exactly what your plan is (too many different tiers around.)<br /><br />Some possible bugs: character level also affects power, as well as gear.<br /><br />Linear gear strength increase (i.e., gear power at Tn = T0 * (1 + n/10)) means that, after a while, gear becomes boring. That's why gear strength is exponential (Tn = T0 * (1.05 or some such)^n) -- every tier makes you proportionately more powerful.<br /><br />How about summarizing your idea in a few sentences?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-84576006980527241212011-10-21T08:03:48.953+02:002011-10-21T08:03:48.953+02:00@Neil: with my scheme still EVERYONE who raids cou...@Neil: with my scheme still EVERYONE who raids could kill all bosses, just not in the same time. I mean a casual one might has his T6 endboss when T8 is current. However it wouldn't mean trivial like going to Illidan now, it would be the same as killing Yogg+0 in ICC gear.Gevlonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07072766785893313616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-82814618941602109302011-10-21T07:46:47.245+02:002011-10-21T07:46:47.245+02:00Hard modes aren't about gear. They're abou...Hard modes aren't about gear. They're about increasing the number of people who can say "I beat Lich King / Ragnaros / Deathwing!" while still keeping challenging encounters in the game. Imagine if post-3.0 Black Temple were how it had always been, and pre-3.0 Black Temple was available as a hard mode. Many more people would have killed Illidan, the "last boss," but there would still be something very difficult for the hardcore raiders to aspire to.Neilnoreply@blogger.com