tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post6468148331390920768..comments2024-02-27T14:44:07.868+01:00Comments on Greedy goblin: Quotes from TEST forumsGevlonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07072766785893313616noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-75193577720328546262013-08-14T09:30:17.309+02:002013-08-14T09:30:17.309+02:00Hi I'm Callduron.
In my defence my post was m...Hi I'm Callduron.<br /><br />In my defence my post was made mid fight and I had no idea at the time we had lost the caps fight so badly. Subcaps weren't even in the same fleet, not were we told anything except GET TACKLE GET TACKLE.<br /><br />I didn't mean to give the impression I don't care about my teammates and I'm sorry if I contributed to your leaving Test, Gevlon.Stabshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08716211705647213383noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-48564842719626433112013-08-10T21:14:14.774+02:002013-08-10T21:14:14.774+02:00@Michael LeBlanc
<< Again, if people are sa...@Michael LeBlanc<br /><br /><< Again, if people are saying 'we're winning, but it's not fun, we should do something else', that's a problem.<br /><br />Not being able to have fun while losing is a very undesirable trait, and generally leads to the person in question leaving the corp/alliance (Beffah, Ingen, Arello, Kurator, etc etc) >><br /><br />Please remember that you are operating within the context of a virtual game.<br />If a game is not fun, then you really should go do something else, even if you happen to be winning it.<br /><br />And you definitely should go do something else if you are losing and not having fun. Because this means that your are not only just losing, but also not learning anything from it.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17285916605762869349noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-20303467981795541232013-08-09T20:27:44.636+02:002013-08-09T20:27:44.636+02:00@Maxim
"Here is a thought:
at the core of c...@Maxim <br /><br />"Here is a thought:<br />at the core of competence lies ability to have fun while pursuing a useful goal."<br /><br />That does not in any way preclude having fun while failing that goal.<br /><br />Again, if people are saying 'we're winning, but it's not fun, we should do something else', that's a problem.<br /><br />Not being able to have fun while losing is a very undesirable trait, and generally leads to the person in question leaving the corp/alliance (Beffah, Ingen, Arello, Kurator, etc etc)Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09714761772780283634noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-57608332204437789592013-08-09T18:21:21.665+02:002013-08-09T18:21:21.665+02:00@Anon
<< It's very difficult to find a l...@Anon<br /><< It's very difficult to find a large group with "all competent" people, but you don't need that, you need the competent people in the key places (which is not only management). >><br />It never said all-competent is the only way. Just the best.<br /><br />So you better keep looking, even if it's very difficult to find :P<br /><br /><< Having or not having fun is a different aspect: with competence you can achieve more goals than without it, but still someone has to decide which goals are in the organization's interest and which are not, and which priority needs to be given to any of them so that you can satisfy more people without losing too much focus or ditch them because they have too incoherent goals.>><br />It seems you equate fun with lack of goals and goal-orientation with lack of fun. This is a false dichotomy, which arises from people trying to force their goals on other people without considering whether it is fun or not for those executing the goals.<br /><br />Here is a thought:<br />at the core of competence lies ability to have fun while pursuing a useful goal.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17285916605762869349noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-33802021650260287212013-08-09T17:11:11.381+02:002013-08-09T17:11:11.381+02:00I refer you to http://mabricksmumblings.blogspot.c...I refer you to http://mabricksmumblings.blogspot.com/2013/07/youre-making-us-look-bad.html. Sounds like the same crapola. Here's a possible solution for you. FCs can control who's in their fleets. Let the competents run theirs with restricted membership. Let the others do as they will. See who gets the largest fleets. Then live and let live - or DIAF as the case may be.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07326933418820669302noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-10185777880853724682013-08-09T16:14:44.614+02:002013-08-09T16:14:44.614+02:00@Von Keigai: and "make up your mind" is ...@Von Keigai: and "make up your mind" is not an idea?Gevlonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07072766785893313616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-43661276786631889862013-08-09T15:27:52.115+02:002013-08-09T15:27:52.115+02:00Gevlon Goblin discovers leadership.
Oh Gevlon, do...Gevlon Goblin discovers leadership.<br /><br />Oh Gevlon, do you recall not a few months back where you were saying that there is no such thing as human quality? "It's always the method, the idea which is superior, and never the person..." I hope you are discovering now that people matter. <br /><br />There is no formula for leadership, but nonetheless it exists and it matters; in the EVE metagame it matters more than anything else.Von Keigaihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14469707993470718130noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-14019230738622396852013-08-09T15:15:08.002+02:002013-08-09T15:15:08.002+02:00Both people like Baki and people like Callduron ar...Both people like Baki and people like Callduron are necessary. Callduron's attitude is not 'losing is fun', it's 'TEST is fun, winning or losing'. It's not like there was a successful OP and he went and said 'we won, that's no fun, let's lose'. You need people like that to come out and fill fleet spots.<br /><br />Obviously, for a sov holding alliance, you also need people who are objective focused like Baki as well, or you aren't going to meet many objectives and aren't going to defend much sov/moons/etc.<br /><br />I do agree that TEST has major leadership issues, and I think you accurately diagnosed the problem as 'they aren't making any decisions'Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09714761772780283634noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-1266647801658183572013-08-09T12:57:12.454+02:002013-08-09T12:57:12.454+02:00'Donations went to complete halt after reachin...'Donations went to complete halt after reaching 350B in two weeks.'<br /><br />Test is one big money pit if you give them money then they seem to lose it within a few hours. Just who is/was responsible for allocating the use of the isk. It reminds me of 'Brewster's Millions' except Brewster just lands up broke at the end.<br /><br />If people show no remorse like Callduron at needlessly losing isk why would anyone 'donate' anything to Test. The quote from Baki Yuku at least shows the your isk mattered and someone should be and is upset at its loss.Bobbinsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-7237625577990370252013-08-09T09:51:34.897+02:002013-08-09T09:51:34.897+02:00@Maxim: It's very difficult to find a large gr...@Maxim: It's very difficult to find a large group with "all competent" people, but you don't need that, you need the competent people in the key places (which is not only management). With the key players in the right places even not-so-good teamplayers can shine, since they find the direction and support they need.<br /><br />I call this the critical mass. In an organization you need a critical mass of competent, influential people with the same core values. It doesn't need to be the majority of members, it can also be a small percentage as long as it's influential at all levels of the organization.<br /><br />Having or not having fun is a different aspect: with competence you can achieve more goals than without it, but still someone has to decide which goals are in the organization's interest and which are not, and which priority needs to be given to any of them so that you can satisfy more people without losing too much focus or ditch them because they have too incoherent goals.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-9070979520749163292013-08-09T08:59:17.695+02:002013-08-09T08:59:17.695+02:00@Maxim: I'm fully aware of that, the proper ut...@Maxim: I'm fully aware of that, the proper utilization will be the topic of Monday's post.Gevlonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07072766785893313616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-8510765008176731922013-08-09T08:32:02.151+02:002013-08-09T08:32:02.151+02:00Actually, from my experience, 100% of all vitrual ...Actually, from my experience, 100% of all vitrual organizations that have failed to set a clear focus and group 'paradigm' eventually fade into obscurity.<br /><br />I'm not talking just about EVE here, but about all online games. The leadership should in all cases be able to step up, make a decision and then stick to it, while building on it. Obviously this is a lot of work, so it's no surprise most people can't be arsed to do it.Tithianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17567723372347346654noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-1571052763877967352013-08-09T08:23:42.261+02:002013-08-09T08:23:42.261+02:00This is a good blog post, I enjoyed reading it. It...This is a good blog post, I enjoyed reading it. It's level headed, gives insight into Test, and you make some excellent points. It's much more enjoyable to read a blog post where you predict something, by using facts and logic, rather than when you just state something like "This will be Mittani's last mistake!". You'll probably get less responses, but I'm guessing a much higher percentage will actually be discussion about the points, rather than just people trolling.<br /><br />To contribute: The whole "proud to be bad" thing is basically copied from the CFC. Whenever there's a welp for a CFC fleet, it's shrugged off, we just say we're incompetent and that's how it is. This way, we "never really lose", but when we win, it demoralizes our enemies even more because we flaunt how incompetent we are. And sure, there are lots and lots of really bad people in the CFC. But at the same time, there's a very strong core of some of the best people in EVE. We have a very charismatic and well-spoken leader, we have some of the best bloc FC's around, we have probably the best finance team and logistic teams. All this enables our line members to be basically as incompetent as they want, and we still end up usually winning in the end.<br /><br />Test lacks this core, as they've never really had any reasons to have it. As you say, the most competent people leave for greener pastures rather than building up the alliance. And those that do stay seem to make matters wors, like Baki Yuku de-nationalizing moons when he was head of finance, and buy them himself.<br /><br />Test needs to find itself, make some changes, and come out stronger. They are simply not competent enough to take care of themselves. The next few weeks will be interesting for sure.Babarnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-37834034026629537512013-08-09T08:17:59.081+02:002013-08-09T08:17:59.081+02:00TEST's entire problems are leadership, or lack...TEST's entire problems are leadership, or lack thereof. There are obviously two diametrically opposed groups being led (or rather, not led) by someone who's out of touch. Best thing that could happen is for TEST to disband. All the talent is already looking for the exits.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-393002830604559812013-08-09T08:00:03.258+02:002013-08-09T08:00:03.258+02:00Didn't mean to doublepost, but this thought ha...Didn't mean to doublepost, but this thought happened after i hit the "publish" button and there is no way to edit after the fact :(<br /><br />ALL CAPS is generally a good indication of a person that you don't want in your alliance. Even if that person is saying sensible things (or is alliance leader).<br /><br />This is actually one of the basics, on the level of "no lols in guildchat".Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17285916605762869349noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-27316824835162180892013-08-09T07:57:32.312+02:002013-08-09T07:57:32.312+02:00100% of all virtual organisations that have made a...100% of all virtual organisations that have made a clear choice for one or another have failed.<br /><br />In my mind, there is a clear casual link between choosing firmly one side of this debate and ending up unable to function.<br /><br />It is obvious you need competent people. But competency itself is not the source of energy that drives the organisation. You need people able to have fun for that. Competency without fun results in burnout. Fun without competency results in lack of progress and - eventually - boredom as all the fun available at given low level of competency is exhausted.<br /><br />The best situation is, of course, when everybody is competent and everybody is having fun. There is no clear method to reach that state, though.<br /><br />However, you don't get there by saying that all "for fun" people should go their separate ways.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17285916605762869349noreply@blogger.com