tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post6440990121070594783..comments2024-02-27T14:44:07.868+01:00Comments on Greedy goblin: Defeating RvB on the fieldGevlonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07072766785893313616noreply@blogger.comBlogger37125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-52304654177772567092014-02-20T03:12:21.420+01:002014-02-20T03:12:21.420+01:00Gevlon:
No, they're not 'risk averse'...Gevlon:<br /><br />No, they're not 'risk averse', they're <i>having fun</i>. If you're having fun w/minimal investment, and you're at the point of diminishing returns, why would you degrade the return on your investment by spending more?<br /><br />You say nobody's only goal in Eve is fighting - I say you're not getting it. When they don't want to fight, when they want to do something else, they log onto other alts, and you don't see them at all. They can do all their other stuff without any interference from you. So the alts you're seeing <i>only login when they want to fight</i>.<br /><br />You're not slowing them down in their other activities at all.Arrendisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-77347589564168251312014-02-20T03:07:03.880+01:002014-02-20T03:07:03.880+01:00@ Gevlon
"There isn't a single person in...@ Gevlon<br /><br />"There isn't a single person in EVE whose goal is to fight. Not a single one. <br /><br />Those who claim so are either doing it because it's a norm, the "PvP-er" ethos, or because it's a good way to not accept being defeated. I mean you just got your ship exploded, but no, you are a winner, since you just wanted to fight."<br /><br />I'll raise my hand on this one. I generate ISK to purchase ships to go out and fight. This, and the lure of maximizing my ISK ventures are the two main reasons I play EVE. I would weigh those two factors as about equal.<br /><br />Yes, I want to win. Yes, I will stop PvPing for the day when I exceed my ship loss limit. No clue if that is "the norm", I don't care about "PVP ethos", and I can't be defeated if we are using your definition of defeat(I think you are defining defeat as no longer playing EVE or venturing out to do what you want to do?)<br /><br />Here's a simple ISK/PvP formula I use. Daily income divided by number of ship losses I can stomach in a day equals the amount of ISK I will place into a ship hull and fittings. Thus, the quality of my ships go up as I make more ISK from cumulative trading, etc, and the loss of those ships do not impede me from going out for fights. Regardless of win or loss.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-78341189015227724012014-02-20T03:06:28.843+01:002014-02-20T03:06:28.843+01:00Your math is wrong.
I'm not very active, and ...Your math is wrong.<br /><br />I'm not very active, and I've lost over 2 billions in ships in less than a year(and not it's not because I suck, my damage is over 45 billions). How come my numbers are soo much higher?<br /><br />You have *no idea* what's going on. There is no point in creating charts and graphs when your basic grasp of the situation is fundamentally wrong. <br /><br />But let's say your math is right. Maybe I'm an idiot and you are right. But what does that mean? Well let's think about it... The loss per member per month is about 30 millions, and with 17% your glorious alliance has inflicted FIVE MILLION ISK damage to the average RvB member. That's pathetic! You can't scare us with that...<br /><br />Back to the drawing board for you... <br /><br />LR<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-68848981375140398102014-02-20T02:29:35.297+01:002014-02-20T02:29:35.297+01:00Didn't the RvB leaders claim that they made th...Didn't the RvB leaders claim that they made their defense pact with goons because POCO's weren't worth losing a battleship fleet over? <br /><br />Assuming that the RvB leaders were being honest then that puts a fairly low cap on RvB's acceptable losses from defending POCOs period, let alone POCOs that aren't theirs.<br /><br />Of course it's much more likely that RvB leadership was being less than honest. And if RvB leadership aren't being honest (they're fairly obviously trolling) then there's no point in diplomacy with them.<br /><br />I think it would be amusing for Gevlon to, say, start up a POCO holding corp in Brave Newbies and if he does manage to take Goon/RvB pocos drop his own as part of Brave. Use some of the POCO proceeds to pay for SRP for Brave (helping newbies, how generous) and force RvB and Goons to wardec Brave to get them back.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-87131451805066690922014-02-20T02:28:15.945+01:002014-02-20T02:28:15.945+01:00@Arrendis: " you cannot actually win a war of...@Arrendis: " you cannot actually win a war of attrition if your enemy's goal is only to fight." is your fundamental error.<br /><br />There isn't a single person in EVE whose goal is to fight. Not a single one. <br /><br />Those who claim so are either doing it because it's a norm, the "PvP-er" ethos, or because it's a good way to not accept being defeated. I mean you just got your ship exploded, but no, you are a winner, since you just wanted to fight.<br /><br />"I just wanted a fight" is just as true as "we didn't want that region anyway". Every. Single. PvP-er wants to win. He wants the opponent explode, he wants to come out victorious with a killmail to show off. <br /><br />No one is looking for fights, everyone is looking for kills.<br /><br />RvB is claiming that they don't care about losses, and they are there for constant PvP, yet their losses are one of the smallest in EVE. Even Goonwaffe members have more losses. 379M ISK / !!!YEAR!!! / pilot. And RvB isn't in nullsec to need ratter, miner or cyno alts. They are all real, PvP-er pilots. Hell, miners have more ships exploding than them.<br /><br />RvB is the most risk averse bunch in EVE. Some of them are genuine newbie who has no choice, the rest are just punks. <br /><br />Gevlonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07072766785893313616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-50148756573229477692014-02-20T02:03:02.752+01:002014-02-20T02:03:02.752+01:00Another fundamental error in your calculation: yo...Another fundamental error in your calculation: your 17% value is added lemmings and marmites. You seem to believe this is meaningful... but we've been at war with Marmite, several times! The "extra losses" from Marmite has not impeded us in the past in any way.<br /><br />You therefore have to look at lemmings only losses... I bet the number isn't very impressive, is it?<br /><br />LR Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-88655384559366420592014-02-19T22:52:46.680+01:002014-02-19T22:52:46.680+01:00Gevlon:
And what prevents him from fitting out an...Gevlon:<br /><br />And what prevents him from fitting out another proteus and going right back to it? You have no evidence that you've <i>stopped</i> him, only <i>killed</i> him once.<br /><br />That's the problem with trying to compare Eve with real conflict: <i>you cannot actually win a war of attrition if your enemy's goal is only to fight</i>.<br /><br />He <i>has</i> to be convinced to change his behavior, to stop opposing your goals.<br /><br />You need to have some <i>other</i> thing they want to do, that you are preventing. The only way to win a war of attrition is to demoralize the enemy, and you aren't doing that. Not even close. What you are spinning up against you is the equivalent of when the CFC starts to grind sov: we start off laughing and stupid and not giving a crap and then hit a snag...<br /><br />... and then we start logging in out of <i>spite</i>, and the most masochistic bunch of will-to-win autistic space-nerds in the game get to work.<br /><br />Really, what makes you think RvB will react any differently? You're feeding them fights, and talking shit about them. You will only make them hate you, and want to fight you more.Arrendisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-48831313440478423862014-02-19T22:41:12.569+01:002014-02-19T22:41:12.569+01:00Gevlon:
"This is what the post is about. The ...Gevlon:<br />"This is what the post is about. The RvB leaders cannot force RvB members to keep on doing work for Goons instead of RvB things."<br /><br />Blowing stuff up - regardless of what or why - <i>is</i> an RvB thing. You are not keeping them from doing what they want to do, you are <i>facilitating it</i>.<br /><br /><br />"So all we need is keeping up the war and RvB will lose enough members to scare the leaders. Or, if they can't care less about RvB and press on being Goon pets, we can fully destroy it."<br /><br />Because the line members are going to leave... why? <i>You are giving them what they are after.</i> You are <i>helping</i> RvB provide 'things blowing up' to their members. Why do you think this is a <i>dis</i>incentive?<br /><br /><br />"Also, I'm very civil with RvB."<br /><br />Except for the whole thing where in this blog you've been insulting and scornful of them. You have, in fact, openly dismissed the idea of civility. To be blunt: I call bullshit. I won't call you a liar, mind you, because I think you really are suffering from some kind of cognitive dissonance about your behavior vs how you think you're behaving.<br /><br /><br />"They attacked us with 8000 men when we were 50 and already were fighting 12000!!! "Pets" is the most charitable term for that."<br /><br />Since when does 'pets' have anything to do with the numbers in an engagement? You're asserting that they're being given marching orders by goons. There's a significant difference between someone telling you what to do, and you choosing to keep your word and live up to the commitments you chose to make.<br /><br />"If you accept what they claim "we did it for fun", then they are so horribly shitty people that makes Goons look saints!"<br /><br />What, blowing up space pixels makes you a horrible person? This is Eve. Don't undock it unless you're willing to lose it. You had some minor traction on the high ground when you were claiming that treating other people like crap is a behavior not to be encouraged, but you lost it - indeed, you muddied it up, mixed in some pig shit, and then rolled around in the mess when you started treating people <i>just like you claim the Goons do</i>.<br /><br />Congratulations, Gevlon, you haven't made it so there's "no goons". By your definition, you've made yourself into the very same thing.<br /><br />Which, of course, you don't believe because you're incapable of actually objectively evaluating your own actions. (Most people, to be fair, are.)Arrendisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-41699019066832009502014-02-19T22:37:57.631+01:002014-02-19T22:37:57.631+01:00@Arrendis: the problem in your logic is that you a...@Arrendis: the problem in your logic is that you assume that people can only be convinced to change their behavior. <br /><br />For example take this Doctor Per guy. He was mad at Marmite because they didn't take his corp in. He swore revenge. He wardecced Lemmings too. When I wrote him diplomatic mails, he gave the tough guy attitude and said he won't stop killing Lemmings.<br /><br />He still did https://zkillboard.com/detail/36917949/Gevlonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07072766785893313616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-76035052981782591752014-02-19T22:29:30.718+01:002014-02-19T22:29:30.718+01:00Dvorak:
One could, certainly. But look at the dif...Dvorak:<br /><br />One could, certainly. But look at the differing goals. Gevlon has an actual <i>goal</i> to modify the behavior of others. RvB has a goal of 'blow stuff up'.<br /><br />One of them is achieving their goal. The other is actively pushing people into a posture where it doesn't matter <i>what</i> he wants, they'll oppose it because it's him. This works directly <i>against</i> his goal. To the extent that he's influencing behavior, he's only encouraging people to act in exactly the way he objects - because he objects to it.Arrendisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-20727747296660804802014-02-19T22:13:05.287+01:002014-02-19T22:13:05.287+01:00@Anonymous: evewho must be lagging. http://evemaps...@Anonymous: evewho must be lagging. http://evemaps.dotlan.net/alliance/Darwins_Lemmings 365<br /><br />Gevlonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07072766785893313616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-66813692840673072262014-02-19T21:52:05.735+01:002014-02-19T21:52:05.735+01:00@Lucas:
Fact 1: RvB, if left alone fights in 14M ...@Lucas: <br />Fact 1: RvB, if left alone fights in 14M ships<br />Assumption 1: RvB prefers fighting in cheap crap<br /><br />Fact 2: RvB, when facing war enemies is fighting in 30M ships<br />Assumption 2: RvB is forced to fight non-cheap crap.<br /><br />Conclusion: RvB is forced to do something they don't prefer. Which is the definition of "not having fun".<br /><br /><br />Fact 3: They are already losing 17% of their ships to Marmites and Lemmings<br />Assumption 3: this 17% wasn't doing what they preferred, so they were harmed.<br /><br />Fact 4: Lemmings are growing fast<br />Conclusion: RvB will lose more than 17% of their ships to Marmites and Lemmings.<br /><br />Final conclusion: more and more RvB will be forced to suffer something they don't preferGevlonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07072766785893313616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-10375854904577467752014-02-19T21:52:05.308+01:002014-02-19T21:52:05.308+01:00Um... Given that RvB is an open corp, accepting al...Um... Given that RvB is an open corp, accepting all and letting people leave at any point to make isk, how can costing them isk lead to their defeat? People will come and go, they have for 4+ years. <br /><br />The only way to kill RvB would be to cost them members. The only way to do that is provide a similar service that offers low cost, fun PvP with near instant action and then out draw people away from RvB. Nothing you have suggested accomplishes this. So long as people want what RvB provides, RvB will exist. 3rd party wars will not change that now or ever.<br /><br />Faction warfare does not provide the same, nul does not, even your lemmings and marmite do not provide the same experience. So really, given that for the past 4 years, RvB line members have been self-funded, dealing with 3rd party wars, and are still killing each other, how can costing them more isk change this when the average member can drop corp or use hi sec alts to make isk then go back to RvB for their PvP fun?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-78814339214765498042014-02-19T21:49:14.044+01:002014-02-19T21:49:14.044+01:00Funny, but, http://evewho.com/alli/Darwins+Lemming...Funny, but, http://evewho.com/alli/Darwins+Lemmings as of shows your member count at 294, a -6.5% difference from your boasted number of 312.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-88705107318076688132014-02-19T21:20:27.834+01:002014-02-19T21:20:27.834+01:00@Gevlon
"If everything goes as it goes now, R...@Gevlon<br />"If everything goes as it goes now, RvB WILL BE defeated."<br />How?<br />How will they be defeated. You keep stating that their members will leave or they will stop the war. There is ZERO evidence of this. You have made up an impact that there is no sign of. You are basing this on if you yourself were an RvB members flying in frigates, which you hate, losing a lot of them, which you hate, you would quit. They are not you. You can't show a shred of evidence that supports your claims that they will be defeated, you can only repeat the claim over and over. That will never make it fact.<br /><br />And as for rapid growth, of course, you are new. A new business can easy double or more it's revenue in the first few months. That will not last forever.<br /><br />Honestly, I think you're pretty insane if you actually think that you can get enough random alts together to stand even a remote chance against RvB. Badly drawn conclusions aside, its an unrealistic goal.Lucas Kellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03969897349629783605noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-64461760259788269972014-02-19T21:18:41.236+01:002014-02-19T21:18:41.236+01:00It still comes down to whether economic impact is ...It still comes down to whether economic impact is enough to drive a group player (Goons/RvB) out.<br /><br />Which still remains to be seen if that works.<br /><br />ISK flows fairly easily in this game, making this more of a "I don't want to play this game any more because its not fun" decision.<br /><br />NOT because "My ships keep blowing up and I have no more ISK to spend, therefore I will quit".Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-24849172759128163522014-02-19T21:03:41.386+01:002014-02-19T21:03:41.386+01:00@Lucas: have you read the end of the post?
"...@Lucas: have you read the end of the post? <br /><br />"Why are they not broken yet? Simple: in this February only 17% of their ISK losses came from Lemmings and Marmites. Most of their members are unaffected. They are 8000, we are 600. We can't defeat them yet. But let me remind you to our growth graph: [rapid growth]"<br /><br />Of course we haven't won the war yet. I've said we are clearly winning. If everything goes as it goes now, RvB WILL BE defeated. Gevlonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07072766785893313616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-39420615826260710012014-02-19T20:43:13.541+01:002014-02-19T20:43:13.541+01:00@Gevlon
"are you trolling or are you in denia...@Gevlon<br />"are you trolling or are you in denial"<br />Uh, neither. It's called having a scrap of common sense. RvB lose a lot of ships. They get into them fully aware they are going to explode, since that's what they do. How do you leap from "We killed some RvB" to "RvB are going DOWN!". It's makes absolutely no sense. Their membership numbers are up, their losses are down from last Jan, and their efficiency up. Go ahead, check. I'll wait. Got it? Good. There is not a single piece of information that supports your claim that they are in any way being damaged. It's your wishful thinking, and this is exactly what we've been trying to explain to you from the moment you started this campaign. It's not good enough to simply say "we're killing you, yay". You actually need to have an impact.<br /><br />You guys are so eager to claim victory that you don;t take the time to actually achieve it. As with all of your projects, you want a quick turn around to success and you want to put in zero effort. That's just not realistic.Lucas Kellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03969897349629783605noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-38912298941088615002014-02-19T20:32:46.251+01:002014-02-19T20:32:46.251+01:00@Lucas: are you trolling or are you in denial? RvB...@Lucas: are you trolling or are you in denial? RvB is clearly about PvP-ing cheap, the numbers are clear about that. They lose much smaller ships than Goons or Razor or absolutely everyone else.<br /><br />They are also clearly losing the Lemmings war.<br /><br />Of course they won't comment: "damn, you caught us, we are going down", the keep commenting "oh, we are having fun" and "didn't want that 1B pod anyway."<br /><br />On the other hand I don't doubt that many RvB member claims the above honestly. Because "friglolling scrub" is a shitty identity and "we take every fight as a content" is much better. But it doesn't make it true. If they COULD take larger losses, they would. Gevlonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07072766785893313616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-22019215316042379962014-02-19T20:18:37.435+01:002014-02-19T20:18:37.435+01:00@Gevlon
"The RvB leaders cannot force RvB mem...@Gevlon<br />"The RvB leaders cannot force RvB members to keep on doing work for Goons instead of RvB things. So all we need is keeping up the war and RvB will lose enough members to scare the leaders"<br />Did you even read the post you were responding to? That's like the whole point. they AREN'T losing members. Not even remotely.<br /><br />"do you know the difference between numbers and Anonymous commenters? <br /><br />One of them doesn't lie."<br />While numbers in the strictest sense don't lie, you can (and do) misrepresent numbers very easily. Even just from this post and the comments. You are taking global RvB losses and making an assumption that it automatically means RvB line members are hating it, regardless of what those line members themselves are saying. Statistics are also showing RvB numbers increasing gradually as normal. So the numbers are saying you are wrong.<br /><br />@Anon<br />"Face it RvB is being used like a douche by Goons I can assure you mittens is laughing his ass off at every RvB loss."<br />What you are basically saying here is that you think RvB is incapable of making their own decisions with all of the information presented to them, while you, with only outsider information provided know better? RvB know what they are doing. They are fully capable of making their own decisions about what works for them. I really don't think they give a shit if some random poster on a blog with a stick up his ass about goons thinks they are being used.Lucas Kellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03969897349629783605noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-90991108559343873022014-02-19T19:28:22.406+01:002014-02-19T19:28:22.406+01:00I still get a kick out RvB a mutual defense pact? ...I still get a kick out RvB a mutual defense pact? where do I see goons rushing to aid RvB? NO do I see Goons rushing to defend their own stuff? a bit but not nearly as much as RvB. <br /><br />Face it RvB is being used like a douche by Goons I can assure you mittens is laughing his ass off at every RvB loss. <br /><br />Just so you know Goons will never show up consistantly to meet their obligations its not that important to them. <br /><br />Bottom line RvB got nothing while giving away the farm.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-17908574240949336742014-02-19T19:08:34.693+01:002014-02-19T19:08:34.693+01:00@Anonymous: do you know the difference between num...@Anonymous: do you know the difference between numbers and Anonymous commenters? <br /><br />One of them doesn't lie.Gevlonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07072766785893313616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-72169735998749864792014-02-19T19:02:18.572+01:002014-02-19T19:02:18.572+01:00@ Gevlon:
I think that what you might be overlook...@ Gevlon:<br /><br />I think that what you might be overlooking, is that any PVP brought on by any war-dec from you or others is welcomed by RvB. Speaking for myself as an "average RvB line member" I care about blowing up ships, not the politics that set up the conflict that allowed the fight to happen. It doesn't matter do me if it is another RvB member or a war target. If helping Goons gives me more targets, that's great! More explosions, more content, it is all good for us.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-18494975689051215382014-02-19T18:45:52.232+01:002014-02-19T18:45:52.232+01:00@Arendis
http://purple.rvbeve.com/
Fun fact: the...@Arendis<br /><br />http://purple.rvbeve.com/<br /><br />Fun fact: the campaigns against Lemmings are titled "Gevlon Goblin is a twat". So much for tact. One could think, rvb is run by 12 year olds.<br />Dvoraknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-6392919335969928192014-02-19T18:04:50.252+01:002014-02-19T18:04:50.252+01:00@Arrendis: fully agree. This is what the post is a...@Arrendis: fully agree. This is what the post is about. The RvB leaders cannot force RvB members to keep on doing work for Goons instead of RvB things. So all we need is keeping up the war and RvB will lose enough members to scare the leaders. Or, if they can't care less about RvB and press on being Goon pets, we can fully destroy it.<br /><br />Also, I'm very civil with RvB. They attacked us with 8000 men when we were 50 and already were fighting 12000!!! "Pets" is the most charitable term for that. Assuming that it's only business. If you accept what they claim "we did it for fun", then they are so horribly shitty people that makes Goons look saints!<br /><br />I mean, after this, do you seriously expect me to be civil and nice when we not only survived their gank attempt, but beating them left and right?<br /><br />Shall I say "oh, your 20000 vs 50 attack didn't work, but hey, good fight, see ya buddies"?<br /><br /><br />PS: I'm not like Progodlegend. I'll win.Gevlonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07072766785893313616noreply@blogger.com