tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post6422450731433027096..comments2024-02-27T14:44:07.868+01:00Comments on Greedy goblin: Elite PvP: GSF vs NC. in 2013Gevlonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07072766785893313616noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-79740151694086197662014-08-19T15:16:01.927+02:002014-08-19T15:16:01.927+02:00Would you say 57% vs 52% is insignificant when the...Would you say 57% vs 52% is insignificant when the other side is constantly fighting 1:2 or 1:3 odds?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-89281267389285531222014-08-17T15:30:48.131+02:002014-08-17T15:30:48.131+02:00Would be interesing to see the average player coun...Would be interesing to see the average player count of each entity. Or the average value per ship loss. The average value of each ship killed. The average number of allies in a fight.<br /><br />Then you probably get a bit closer to what you actually wanted to point out.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-58223200868105945732014-08-17T12:16:54.912+02:002014-08-17T12:16:54.912+02:00I don't need to look at any numbers to see tha...I don't need to look at any numbers to see that NC. Is not an elite alliance. <br />I've been on the anti goon side of the game for 8 years, and I've flown with most of those members of NC. In one or another constellation (and I left when my last Corp joint that cesspool of noobs) <br /><br />Any alliance that contains Ankou, Nexe, lft or hirr can not claim to be an elite pvp alliance. Those corps have in common that they put isk farming before learning the game, and that they have relaxed recruitment which lets in the worst of players. <br /><br />The sad part is that veterans of the other corps have been giving up left and right, simply being rolled over by massive waves of stupidity. It's why many of my friends and me are not with them - we don't enjoy the levels of incompetence we saw around there. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-67079482080190419142014-08-16T11:32:00.082+02:002014-08-16T11:32:00.082+02:00"What forces the other to not downship"
..."What forces the other to not downship"<br /><br />elitepvp and/or N+1<br /><br />if you cant win by out blobing because you don't have the numbers required you need some other force magnifier. so at some point a lesser force needs to upship.<br /><br />if you _are_ able to fly higher tier ships and still break even in the ISK war then that will add to your elitepvp reputation. which may help in recruitment (perhaps)<br /><br />the problem comes when the blob masters the biggest cost effective (t1) option. ie dreads.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-5576783018249544172014-08-16T07:23:10.417+02:002014-08-16T07:23:10.417+02:00What forces the other to not downship to T1 and ch...What forces the other to not downship to T1 and choose their fights properly like MoA/Pasta/Mortuus?Gevlonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07072766785893313616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-32433913372312224762014-08-16T01:11:55.918+02:002014-08-16T01:11:55.918+02:001000 t1 vs the equivalent ISK value of t2 or t3.
...1000 t1 vs the equivalent ISK value of t2 or t3.<br /><br />who'll win? the blob?<br /><br />so if the blob has a 52% ISK efficiency they are losing the field much more often than 50% of the time.<br /><br />to put it another way; if one uses t1 and the other uses t3 and they both lose 50% of the time, the ISK ratio will heavily favour the t1 user.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-49872866249570226362014-08-15T15:41:54.811+02:002014-08-15T15:41:54.811+02:00@CFC Grunt: the de-whoring is indeed unfair to an ...@CFC Grunt: the de-whoring is indeed unfair to an individual pilot who flies mostly logi or tackle and favors the F1-monkey. But when you compare corps or alliances, you can assume that they have both kind of players. <br />Gevlonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07072766785893313616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-77130055290062230262014-08-15T15:41:17.791+02:002014-08-15T15:41:17.791+02:00"the proper measure of the skills of a large ..."the proper measure of the skills of a large alliance is their de-whored killboard ratio against their top enemies."<br /><br />WRONG.<br /><br />There's an old adage in performance management that says, "You'll get what you measure." It's very true, and works in reverse. If you want a strong, efficient firm, you measure against its purpose.<br /><br />The purpose of a sov-holding alliance is to hold sov. Therefore, the proper measure is how much and how long they hold their sov.<br /><br />What allows a sov-holding alliance to survive is avoiding the failure cascade. If KB efficiency was the best measure of that, then BoB and GNC should still rule 0.0. GHSC should rule highsec. m0o should rule lowsec. None of these do, because they all failed.<br /><br />Goons have shown a remarkable resilience to failure cascade. They've been beaten, they've been disbanded (you're aware that GSF isn't the original alliance, right?), they've fought in massive wars, they've been embroiled in CCP-related controversy, and they've had long stretches of peace (which, in fact, is one of the riskiest things for an alliance in EVE). BoBzoku had all of these things happen to them, too. They are no longer a sov-holding entity.<br /><br />Does KB efficiency play into that? Maybe. The average line member isn't going to like getting curbstomped every time they log in. But they still log in, and that's why Goons have survived while so many others have failed.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-46639352014669053042014-08-15T15:12:10.169+02:002014-08-15T15:12:10.169+02:00I didn't understand mittens either: So basica...I didn't understand mittens either: So basically unless you are a soldier you have no room to talk about the military and so forth. Let me use this example: The U.S. Nuclear force has been found to be in horrible shape. Was this determined by the military or was it found by non military watch dog? Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-16733137603447257162014-08-15T14:28:08.274+02:002014-08-15T14:28:08.274+02:00Gevlon, when it comes to metrics, your idea of &qu...Gevlon, when it comes to metrics, your idea of "Dewhoring" is bad.<br /><br />Why? Well, let's look at the case of the titan kill. 100B titan, split between people cost-wise basing on how much damage they dealt.<br /><br />Sounds good? Not really - It's likely that there were ships on the field that did not do any damage (0.00%) but were vital to the operation. For instance, Heavy Interdictors holding the titan down.<br /><br />De-whoring will focus only on the DPS, where a lion's share belongs to the squad of HICs that held the ship down to begin with. Without them, there would be no kill at all - it's not like the Titan is honor-bound not to jump out or warp away.<br /><br />Likewise, in big brawls your scoring ommits logistics. Logistics often makes or breaks the battle. (And, the use of logistics and T2 ships used to be what "Elite PvP tactics" were about.)<br /><br />CFC Gruntnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-22662357820748995412014-08-15T13:54:47.781+02:002014-08-15T13:54:47.781+02:00Nonono... Kobeathris, Gevlon told us that WoT or t...Nonono... Kobeathris, Gevlon told us that WoT or the PvP battles in WoW are based on a matchmaking system that gives you ALWAYS a 50% W/L ratio.<br />Therefore no amount of skill would let you get better resulst as the better you will become the harder the ennemies that the matchmaking system throws at you will be...<br /><br />Although I agree with your opinion that with large numbers, the isk ratio always should level out at 50% and any deviance of more then 2% would be an exceptional result.<br /><br />But Gevlon wats to tell us another story. There is no elite PVP in Eve as all the "elite PVP" entities have "gruesome" statistics. <br />And any "normal" EVE PVE Player has a bad Isk ratio in PVP as one timer or the other he flew right into a gank.<br />Of course if you just make a miner gank char and undock only to fly to your scout's warpin to gank a mining barge, then you will always have an extremely high isk rato. <br />Again, this has nothing to do with elite pvp skills, but with the crappy game mechanics. A super cheap, worthless catalyst can kill ships up to 50x its worth. If that mechanic held true for other ships, then a BS should easily be able to kill a ship woth 20B... Oh wait...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-84871479678624124812014-08-15T13:53:45.446+02:002014-08-15T13:53:45.446+02:00Of course eve isn't a pvp game, it's a san...Of course eve isn't a pvp game, it's a sandbox and it's what you want to make of it. If you have fun playing a space uncle scrooge then by all means do it.<br /><br />Back on topic, you misses a very important fact: 50% is a very healthy figure. Maybe not for some people's ego but for the game. It means that sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, everyone's happy, everyone can have his share of enjoyment and keeps logging in. Elite or not, that's just words and what matters is that people keep coming playing the game and 50% efficiency is a great balance to achieve that goal.Bobnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-34516531635563063582014-08-15T13:38:41.878+02:002014-08-15T13:38:41.878+02:00Gevlon, wouldn't you agree that in a "fai...Gevlon, wouldn't you agree that in a "fair" pvp game, top players going against each other should hover around a 50% win ratio? In that case, isn't 57% vs 52% a larger difference than it initially appears?Kobeathrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00055369026091427651noreply@blogger.com