tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post514791789081732095..comments2024-02-27T14:44:07.868+01:00Comments on Greedy goblin: Nullsec-altruism and a free titanGevlonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07072766785893313616noreply@blogger.comBlogger33125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-38744794247439424932012-07-27T12:56:16.637+02:002012-07-27T12:56:16.637+02:00@anon:
Zero-activity trading is income-neutral.
We...@anon:<br />Zero-activity trading is income-neutral.<br />Wealth gives an opportunity to engage in trading, but does not in any way or shape garauntee profits, especially when you're over 100b. - long-term trading is often much under the stated 10%, and short-term requires playtime.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-8576309580384020372012-07-25T09:18:24.899+02:002012-07-25T09:18:24.899+02:00Not a matter of ignoring or not liking them.
We a...Not a matter of ignoring or not liking them.<br /><br />We and they had differing goals and we differed in acceptable methods.<br /><br />Simply going our own way was the best course.Kristophrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08370888276707569365noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-59964197004939727362012-07-25T09:14:47.772+02:002012-07-25T09:14:47.772+02:00@Hivemind bounty ticks are 20 minutes.
and the is...@Hivemind bounty ticks are 20 minutes.<br /><br />and the issue is not paying for PLEX, the issue is opportunity cost (which you still don't seem to understand).<br /><br />If I invest 20b into a pilot and 25b into the ship, then I have 45b worth of assets that I could otherwise use for trading.<br />At an extremely conservative 10% interest on invest capital per month that alone is a cost of 4.5b/pilot per month not counting any ship replacements or PLEXes.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-63622032236418885502012-07-25T07:49:36.126+02:002012-07-25T07:49:36.126+02:00Did you read the rest of my post? The point is you...Did you read the rest of my post? The point is you can rat sanctums with little to no attention needed.Znybarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11945612456646410216noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-90259749795574166812012-07-25T07:33:47.896+02:002012-07-25T07:33:47.896+02:00@Zynbar: "eye on local/intel and a hand on th...@Zynbar: "eye on local/intel and a hand on the mouse" and "AFK" in the same sentence is funny.Gevlonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07072766785893313616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-54925637363711104082012-07-25T06:22:37.030+02:002012-07-25T06:22:37.030+02:00Gevlon.
Pretty much wrong about AFK in null. You ...Gevlon.<br /><br />Pretty much wrong about AFK in null. You don't seem to understand, in null, in many cases PvE activities are safer than in highsec. I've watched the whole series of game of thrones doing sanctums in null. All you need is half an eye on local/intel and a hand on the mouse to shoot ships.Znybarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11945612456646410216noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-37114794895867763452012-07-25T05:50:05.795+02:002012-07-25T05:50:05.795+02:00@Hivemind: you fall for the typical "my time ...@Hivemind: you fall for the typical "my time is free" trap. I don't question that "PvP is fun" for typical null dweller but this is still time spent and provides safety. To evaluate effectivity you must include all time.<br /><br />Otherwise I can say that the highest ISK/hour in the game is mining veldspar with a Rokh and an orca: you set the the Rokh on an asteroid, go AFK and do something fun out of game. You return 15 mins later, load the ore into the Orca. You'll spend about 4 mins/hour active and can get about 20M/hour, aka 20M/4 mins = 300M/hour. You clearly can't go AFK in null. By the way this isn't so extreme example, botting works just like that.<br /><br />@Kristopher: "non-objectivist people" and even "complete idiots" are objectively existing entities. Ignoring or "not liking" them isn't rational.Gevlonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07072766785893313616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-84599693166453662072012-07-25T05:12:49.719+02:002012-07-25T05:12:49.719+02:00@ Anonymous:
Merc costs aren't really equivale...@ Anonymous:<br />Merc costs aren't really equivalent to holding Sov yourself since with mercs you're in competition with every other contract they could be taken, and they implicitly want more ISK from you than they could get performing the role themselves (or they'd just do that).<br /><br />When you start looking at alliance-level income as well as members' own incomes (since it's usually the former that pays for super capitals) I think it's fairly easy to soak up the cost of maintaining a super fleet; I understand most titan pilots are simply alts on an account with other useful characters, as once a super pilot has trained their super-related and supporting skills to 5 there's not much point training anything else. Even if that's not the case, a 50 man super fleet would cost about 25bn/month to pay for PLEX for; a few high end moons will easily cover that.<br /><br />As for your maths, I think you're making my point for me; you said you got 22-23 mil per bounty tick, which is 15 minutes, so you're making 44-46mil per 30 mins in null or 1 hour in hisec. If null requires 50/50 PvE/PvP that still means you're breaking even with missioning in hisec. I also have to ask, how much of that PvP time was necessary for maintaining sov (in other words, home defence, be it destroying SBUs or running off neuts) and how much was PvPing for fun, be that roaming outside your space or invading other people?<br /><br />@ Gevlon: "You'll see how dumb is that"<br />While I'm very interested in seeing how this all plays out, that seems a little premature at this point since as far as I know you're still looking for advice on alliances that might suit you.Hivemindhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06023203654304122548noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-73207037528399124762012-07-25T03:03:11.176+02:002012-07-25T03:03:11.176+02:00Anonymous: try gas mining 1000 units of C-320 in a...Anonymous: try gas mining 1000 units of C-320 in a wormhole some time.<br /><br />Takes about an hour.Kristophrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08370888276707569365noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-20154350894503476602012-07-25T02:59:36.962+02:002012-07-25T02:59:36.962+02:00In order to make more money in this game, we would...In order to make more money in this game, we would have to either all become station traders, or hold sov and take over a bunch of tech moons.<br /><br />The former requires a mindset that most folks don't have.<br /><br />The later requires handling a bunch of non-objectivists.<br /><br />TTI decided the latter was not worth it ... we ended up with a bunch of infighting between non-objectivists players who wanted more sov, and objectivists who were determined to stick to their word.<br /><br />The corp got spanked out of null. The objectivists retreated to their own gulches in wh space, and have been getting themselves rich ever since.Kristophrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08370888276707569365noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-81113343568151550702012-07-25T02:53:16.765+02:002012-07-25T02:53:16.765+02:00Gevlon:
I'm in TTI.
We are making ISK hand o...Gevlon:<br /><br />I'm in TTI.<br /><br />We are making ISK hand over fist in wormhole space. We are absolutely not engaging in altruism.<br /><br />It looks like you have made a bunch of assumptions again, without getting the facts again.Kristophrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08370888276707569365noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-52554705413000293072012-07-25T02:33:22.717+02:002012-07-25T02:33:22.717+02:00@Gevlon
"I dualbox 2 Hulks and you can start...@Gevlon<br /><br />"I dualbox 2 Hulks and you can start getting gas for setting yourself fire."<br /><br />And you could be dual boxing 2 Tengus in forsaken hubs and make over twice as much v0v. His point isn't that it's *possible* to achieve that much (particularly with multiple accounts). It's that the wasted time-opportunity is huge.<br /><br />Your thoughts on "safety" in nullsec PvE are...well, just wrong. Organized and active intel channels, jump bridges and being 25 jumps away from the closest system a neutral can stage out of makes it absurdly easy not to get killed. 99% of ratting kills happen because the ratter was an idiot and doing something dumb. Period. <br /><br />And most ratting grounds are rarely in "constant danger". I can go ratting un-molested for hours upon hours usually. And, to be honest, most people don't even form fleets to chase down solo pvp'ers or small gangs roaming their space. The idea that after taking into account up-time and enemies ratting is, "veldspar mining level" is absolutely absurd. You are a good writer, and I enjoy most of your blog posts, but it's clear after reading this one that you have never experienced a null-sec life, and are not in a good, informed position to talk about it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-54352253031380989602012-07-25T01:45:27.459+02:002012-07-25T01:45:27.459+02:00Gevlon,
I think the mining veldspar reference was...Gevlon,<br /><br />I think the mining veldspar reference was for a single character. You want to talk about making isk? If I dual-box in null sanctums I can easily make upwards of 120m/hour, with shithouse cheap BS. For PvE efficiency, I think there's no question that null makes you the most isk. Most players don't have to rat for weeks because a few days' ratting will net them enough isk to pay for ships for a long time. Also, remember that people's goal in null is rarely if ever making isk, it's having fun. No one in their right-mind is going to rat for hours on end in the first place.<br /><br />Honestly, you have some very good ideas, some very good skills, but you just don't know what you're talking about. Stop TALKING about going to null and actually go there. Use an alt, fly frigs for all I care. Just GO where all the stuff you're talking about is happening, you're coming across as incredibly naive.<br /><br />Do you even realise how null warfare works? You're just looking at the superficial layers, you're not seeing the spying on other factions, the intel received by multiple sources, the larger sov warfare and alliance maintenance pictures, the logistics pictures. You think any alliance is going to keep you in the know for why you should fly x at 1000 eve time? Short of you being part of leadership, you won't be privy to that information. <br /><br />You can't EVER fly any ship you want simply because you think it's the best. This is even if it's supported by good eftwarrioring. There are levels of Null warfare you just don't see, and until you actually experience it for yourself you'll keep looking like a fool to those of us that have been living there for months or years.Znybarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11945612456646410216noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-46159275544588379882012-07-24T21:02:44.346+02:002012-07-24T21:02:44.346+02:00@Steel: standard social crap "no person matte...@Steel: standard social crap "no person matters just the team". You'll see how dumb is that<br /><br />@Anonymous: I dualbox 2 Hulks and you can start getting gas for setting yourself fire.Gevlonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07072766785893313616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-52458663751938980302012-07-24T20:50:33.909+02:002012-07-24T20:50:33.909+02:00When you will mine in high-sec 50 mil / hour worth...When you will mine in high-sec 50 mil / hour worth of Veldspar, i will donate you all my ISK (like 400 BIL), all my ships (about 30 bil worth of ISK), delete all my characters, uninstall the game and set my self on fire.<br /><br />Is that enough, OR do you need numbers?<br /><br />Go in EFT, fit a hulk with what you want, have an orca, mining director 5, w/e you want and you can't make above 27 mil/hour.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-26663030517248547202012-07-24T20:47:27.768+02:002012-07-24T20:47:27.768+02:00"I can't care less about hotdrops", ..."I can't care less about hotdrops", "I care only about ...", "I believe an Avatar should/shouldn't", "Skill x V is not needed", "I don't want to use guns", "My pilot will only ..." etc. Here lie your major problems - you want to do everything on your terms, you already know everything before even stepping in 0.0, and you know it better then people who have been doing it for 10 years. Especially when you fly supercaps, it is expected to have fully trained skills, proficiencies, best equipment and be able to support and take part in whatever situation that may come up, NO EXCUSES. You do what you're told and what is required of you. It's one thing to not be able to fit a newbie drake because you have 4.9 mil SP, that will get you a cute pat one the back, followed by "so train Eng V you scrub!". But get to a supercap OP and your FC says "everyone do x now!" and you start saying "can't, because I fly a 100 bil killmail-waiting-to-happen but didn't bother training x / not interested in y" - that will get you laughed straight out of fleet, assuming you managed to somehow slip in in the first place. You have drama / integration problems / not a team player written all over you.<br /><br />You are too hung up on internet pixel money, internet pixel spaceships and spacepenises. These are inconsequential, they are fluff, they are byproducts, they are a dime a dozen in the grand scheme of things. The real rare commodities that matter are cultural compatibility, integration, being a team player, loyalty, social bonds, having real experience. That's what a successful alliance will care first and foremost.Steel H.https://www.blogger.com/profile/02051764931456770746noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-72603458887051236432012-07-24T20:19:25.142+02:002012-07-24T20:19:25.142+02:00@Hivemind It's not only supercap losses you...@Hivemind It's not only supercap losses you'd have to consider - you also have to take the opportunity cost of a supercapital fleet (in terms of tied up wealth & characters) into account.<br /><br />The basic question is "Would it be profitable to own 0.0 space if you hired mercenaries to do *all* the fighting for you?" - this is the closest you'll ever get to having a reasonable estimate on the opportunity cost of holding space.<br />... and the answer is (a) there are no mercenary groups capable of such a job unless you already have a sizable list of blues and (b) even if you have enough blues that permanently hiring PL for all your sov war needs (and INIT for the subcapital brawls) would be feasible these contract would be prohibitively expensive.<br /><br />I fully agree with Gevlon that holding sov space only appears profitable because most players (who enjoy pvp and holding space for its own sake) contribute massive amounts of time, tied-up capital and characters/skill-training without demanding any serious economic compensation.<br /><br />Even if I completely disregard the ~4b in pvp ships in my hangar and the ~100m SP I have invested into characters that I never use for PvE or other forms of income generation and just bill every hour I spend in pvp fleets at 45m ISK/h the cost of living in 0.0 would outweigh the purely economic benefits for me by far (rough estimate - doing high-sec missions I average around 45m ISK/h, doing Sanctums in Serpentis space I got 22-23m ticks, so for every hour of PvE I would have to spend less than 30 minutes in PvP fleets, when in reality the PvE:PvP ratio is probably much closer to 1:1).<br /><br />And while some players can freeload on the backs of players (like me) who enjoy pvp for its own sake the number of j4gs an alliance can bear is naturally very limited.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-29300042807888636532012-07-24T19:10:48.577+02:002012-07-24T19:10:48.577+02:00This is interesting and I look forward to reading ...This is interesting and I look forward to reading about it. I am 100% certain it will be a good read.<br /><br />The outcome is less certain.<br /><br />My guess is that you will end up forming your own group. The odds are against that succeeding for the same reason that you did not see yourself as a good fit for CSM. You do not want to abandon rationality for the world of personality, flattery & cajoling.<br /><br />My opinion is that despite your talents the odds are really against you. Since the overwhelming number of pilots are M&S or php-gf sheeple and don't share your goals/values, one must have those people to have a large empire.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-17127338896549714202012-07-24T17:46:33.998+02:002012-07-24T17:46:33.998+02:00@Gevlon "As soon as defense costs come to the...@Gevlon "As soon as defense costs come to the picture, alliances that care a bit for the ISK efficiency instantly fold."<br /><br />Examples, please? I've heard of alliances collapsing in the face of sustained hostility, with oppressors wiping out fleets, conquering systems etc etc. I've never heard of one that immediately collapsed as soon as its income was threatened. On the other hand I have heard of alliances that were threatened, drove off the attackers and resumed normal operation afterwards. The fact that Alliances can collapse under sufficient threat doesn't mean that in the time leading up to that war they weren't raking ISK in. Once again, <b>open, active and hot warfare is not the normal state of life for nullsec</b>. Most of the time there are occasional roaming gangs of neuts that show up maybe once a day or less, and if run off will be a lot less frequent.<br /><br />You don't need "hundreds" of supercaps to take and keep sov space. Several dozen maybe, anything else is overkill 90% of the time. Given the income that can be made in nullsec by active players and from null-only resources like moongoo, yes supercap losses can be paid for. It's also very unusual to see significant losses among a supercap fleet; a titan going down or more than a couple of supercarrier kills are relatively rare, so the investment in a super fleet is fairly stable. In point of fact one of the obstacles preventing newer alliances from claiming space in Null under their own flag rather than as pets/renters is the difficulty of assembling a supercap wing <b>without</b> income from Null.Hivemindhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06023203654304122548noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-31736639821116704572012-07-24T17:22:12.060+02:002012-07-24T17:22:12.060+02:00@Hivemind: "external pressure" is exactl...@Hivemind: "external pressure" is exactly the reason why null doesn't worth it ISK-wise. No one doubts that if everyone would be nice and friendly people would rather run sanctums or WH capital escalations than mining veldspar.<br /><br />As soon as defense costs come to the picture, alliances that care a bit for the ISK efficiency instantly fold. Just think about supercaps. 1 titan costs 100B, one mothership 30B and you need hundreds to keep your sov. Consider a supercap fleet among the "sov-holding costs". Do you still think it worth it?Gevlonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07072766785893313616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-56341510761844433292012-07-24T17:11:29.803+02:002012-07-24T17:11:29.803+02:00@ Gevlon: Have a look at any of the 15-20 Sins of ...@ Gevlon: Have a look at any of the 15-20 Sins of a Solar Empire columns where Mittens rails against the concept of pets and renters for some very good reasons why the idea of a strong alliance acting as landlord and defender for a lot of carebear renter corps doesn’t work out well in the long run. That approach didn’t work out well for BoB even before they were disbanded, or for the former Northern Coalition or Legion of xXDeathXx. http://www.tentonhammer.com/node/67275 is possibly the first example, but it’s referenced in a lot of his other columns too. I also pointed out specifically why roles such as alliance logistics aren’t things you can turn over to renters and expect to work.<br /><br />If you were right about Null ISK not being worth the hassle I think we would see more signs of it than just the lack of a galaxy-spanning empire; there would be alliances cascading on their own simply because the ISK is bad with no serious outside pressure, which I’ve never heard of. There would be alliances that took sov space, didn’t collapse but did spend some time there, decided it wasn’t worth it and went back to other areas. There’s the glaring point that if null ISK wasn’t worth it, there would be a much much shorter lifespan for Null entities that aren’t formed around a shared out-of-game cause or goal. BoB didn’t have an external culture and it’s actually still around in one incarnation or another. –A- doesn’t have an external culture, PL doesn’t have an external culture… it’s easier to list those alliances that do, which are mostly ethnic enclaves like the Russian alliances, Goonswarm and TEST. Despite this they fold due to external pressure applied by opposing alliances/blocs. During an actual war they may not be able to make ISK in their space due to opposing forces roaming their space and that is one of the factors that lead to failcascade, but that is NOT the normal state of affairs; it’s like saying that clearly shipping goods between Europe and America is a bad idea because during wartime they will be targeted and sunk.<br /><br />I would also like to point out there’s a difference between “Nobody” and “Practically nobody” and there’s a very large difference between “Practically nobody” and “Upwards of 10% of the total population”, especially considering that much of that 10% will have one or more alts living in hisec for convenience; moving goods out of Jita when you have the likes of Pinky Feldman deccing your alliance, for example.Hivemindhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06023203654304122548noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-1061231052694311532012-07-24T16:48:14.327+02:002012-07-24T16:48:14.327+02:00Renters don't work. Despite what the blocks wh...Renters don't work. Despite what the blocks which hold onto the rental model think. This has been proven time and time again. "Space Communism", with no rented space and blues if blues fleet up and fight seems to be (at least in recent memory) to be the model of choice.<br /><br />"more renters" = "more problems". The problem with the renters is, as TheMittani put it in a TTH article, that they are "paying for the privilage of fighting for their landlords". There is no real loyalty. The Landlords are more concerned with protecting their valuable core systems and the Renters can just go and rent elsewhere.<br /><br />An alliance which has a lot of renters has a lot of targets - targets which when killed suck the life out of an important income stream for the defending alliance.<br /><br />Whilst there may be some "pets" in the CFC, their model is totally different. You fight, you get blues. You get friends. You get tech moons to support your alliance. You are part of something larger. It acts as a rallying point for all the entities which make up the CFC, and this is at least in part I think, the key to their success.<br /><br />The space feudalism model simply doesn't work when faced with the nurturing embrace of a collective.<br /><br />So no, it can't be cured by more renters. Moreover you neglect the fact that there is a limited supply of renter alliances. If there were more renters there would be more people renting.<br /><br />Your reasoning as to why things do or do not happen are at odds with the reality of how nulsec actually works (although this is not entirely surprising given most of your posts are at odds with reality)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-82890597055138400262012-07-24T16:17:10.055+02:002012-07-24T16:17:10.055+02:00@Hivemind: all your problems with sov expansion co...@Hivemind: all your problems with sov expansion could easily be countered by just more renters. A PvP alliance rule it all but the space with all the logistics crap is done by renters who provide passive income.<br /><br />Many alliances tried this and failed simply because renters refused to pay enough to make it viable, because the space simply did not worth so much.<br /><br />And yes, the point is exactly that if null wasn't ISK efficient, nobody would live there and practically nobody does. Most of the population lives in high. If null was so good, most people at least attempted to live there. <br /><br />They don't because the costs are higher than the revenues. Only those live there who has a reason to suck the low ISK up, like "l33t" status or being with friends.Gevlonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07072766785893313616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-62441341702416908922012-07-24T16:04:41.350+02:002012-07-24T16:04:41.350+02:00Well Gev, I think you will have to start your own ...Well Gev, I think you will have to start your own alliance since I feel no entity currently in the game conforms to your ideals. And that might not actually be a bad idea. It would put your theories to the test, the whole idea of The One Empire that is all inclusive and so on.Glaunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-35755411773993033122012-07-24T15:59:09.064+02:002012-07-24T15:59:09.064+02:00@Gevlon: Sov being efficient ISK wise can easily b...@Gevlon: Sov being efficient ISK wise can easily be proven: if it wasn't, nobody would live there.<br /><br />Trite aphorisms aside, there are several reasons why none of the past or present powerblocks have formed your One Empire, none of which are that it's more efficient to make ISK out of sov null (incidentally, suggesting that making ISK in sov null is inefficient therefore people should go to NPC null is still laughable). Here are a few of them:<br />> Not wanting to dilute shared alliance or bloc identity in order to add members to hold more space<br />> Preference to just hold the most valuable space and reap the rewards, rather than expand both in space and in members and reduce average income<br />> Increasing logistical challenge – there are only so many players who have the experience and the desire to do the various logistical tasks needed to run a null alliance such as fuelling towers, fuelling jump bridges, moving/reacting moongoo, collecting fees, etc. You can fill up space with new renters from hisec but they won’t have experience doing any of that or necessarily be people you can trust with those roles.<br />> Increasing tactical challenge – The more space you hold, the more borders there are and the fewer targets there are for those not in your empire to attack for their PvP enjoyment. As such it becomes harder to defend as you get more attacks across a wider area.<br />> Lack of desire to expand – Expansions are led by PvP players, not PvE ones, and mostly take place for PvP reasons (“I’m bored” counts here) rather than economic ones. PvPers usually want enough space to guarantee them a good passive income to fund ship replacements and so on, whether it’s from renters or moons or both, and have little desire to expand beyond that as long as they can still get PvP. You might note that the Delve campaign started out as HB looking for goodfights, not more space.<br />> Desire to preserve enemies – You only get sov-level enemies from enemy sov entities, plus to a lesser extent recently displaced sov entities (There is a limit to how long an alliance capable of holding sov can last outside of sov before fracturing into corps that join existing sov holders). Sov null FCs and leaders – the people who decide when invasions happen – enjoy sov-level fights and so want to keep at least some enemies around to guarantee fights in the future.<br /><br />Your claim that Sov Null ISK/PvE_Hours is equal to mining Veld in hisec is based on… what experience, exactly? For that matter, where did you get the idea that you “MUST have PvP fleets roaming in own and enemy space and camps”? It’s entirely possible to go without those on a permanent basis, so long as when neuts do show up a response is formed to them; your PvE players dock their PvE ships up so that they don’t provide the neuts with cheap kills which will encourage them, they re-ship for PvP, form up a home defence force in a single location (Remember, you have a jumpbridge network to get around your space, your enemies do not) and go run the neuts out. Preferably you kill them, but if they’re met at every incursion with overwhelming force and run off then they’ll quickly get the message and look for easier targets, you can return to ISK making and over time spend more and more time making ISK and less having to defend space.<br /><br />I thought I understood your concept of “nullsec altruism” but based on your comment about TTI I’m no longer sure I do. I don’t have any first-hand experience of them, so that might be it, but I was under the impression the closest they came to altruism was joining forces to increase mutual profit via things like capital escalations in their WH. I could understand your differences coming from their isolationism (wanting to set up an enclave of their own objectivist/rational self-interest beliefs) vs your expansionism (wanting to spread them across EVE), hence why I suggested they may at least be able to point you towards other rational/objectivist organisations, but I’ve never heard them described as altruistic before.Hivemindhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06023203654304122548noreply@blogger.com