tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post1784510362487977731..comments2024-02-27T14:44:07.868+01:00Comments on Greedy goblin: Witching hourGevlonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07072766785893313616noreply@blogger.comBlogger54125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-75696890205098818022012-07-16T18:17:50.085+02:002012-07-16T18:17:50.085+02:00After playing EVE, i can see players using a menu ...After playing EVE, i can see players using a menu similar to the "skill training queue" to do their daily preperations, sleeping, and eating. I've been thinking a lot about this concept, and I thought it would be neat if players did some sort of minigame (ie quicktime event, mouse/keyboard accuracy tests, and the like) to accomplish their goal and determine the yield of smelting or whatever.eph3merousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-34545450221696910752010-04-02T05:25:29.184+02:002010-04-02T05:25:29.184+02:00Different things...
- MMOs these days are defined ...Different things...<br />- MMOs these days are defined not just by how much you like them, but how much your friends like them.<br />- greatest obstacle to immersion is probably being able to zoom camera to 50m in the air, when 2D display technology with no triangulation makes everything seem tiny at that distance. As well as difficulty of making a realistic scary environment with polygon and lighting art constraints.<br />- combat is popular because it provides visceral standard of success.<br />- complaints from incompetent people trying to do something they see no benefit in, see first point. Goals the game sets are very important and how they relate.<br />- botting and effect on economy and immersion.<br /><br /><i>"A world in an MMO is large enough if you can do what you want to do..."</i>Taemojitsuhttp://daughterofankh.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-13017314361114108922010-01-15T18:37:49.594+01:002010-01-15T18:37:49.594+01:00The concept of your game sounds amazing. An in-dep...The concept of your game sounds amazing. An in-depth feeling game like this would keep me coming back.Firewieldernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-68807436284417270442010-01-15T02:32:14.129+01:002010-01-15T02:32:14.129+01:00Its funny - what you are describing is basicly all...Its funny - what you are describing is basicly all the failed mmos that came before WoW, and alot of what you are suggesting are ideas that have been tossed out and losing them is what made wow so good.<br /><br />You should read and visit some old school mmos, if they are still out there - ultima online was very close to your idea, anarchy online had alot of the same ideas, galaxies was very close...<br /><br />They all failed, horriably.Joe Nothin'noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-44695099112327035422010-01-13T18:28:57.087+01:002010-01-13T18:28:57.087+01:00I felt the best concept is something we have seen ...I felt the best concept is something we have seen in games before, and to great success. Persistance of progression even when not playing.<br /><br />Wow may be "immersive" and "persistent" but there is little to no character progression or change while a player is logged out. Even the world changes little. The closest thing I can think of were the old world events: The 4 dragons, attack of the scourge (release of NAXX), unlocking AQ, and these were all vanilla wow events.<br /><br />The idea of being able to cook/teach/mine, etc while logged out are great ideas. Think of games like Mafia Wars and Farmville, it is because their progression persists even when the user isn't playing that (ironically) keeps people playing. But also ensures that they are likely to return, to see what happened while they were away.<br /><br />I guess you could liken that to running the AH, you always come back to see what sold :)<br /><br />I however see a few things that would limit its accessibility and commerical success, but are things that only need tweeking, mostly the ideas of making players do something (eat, sleep). Overall though some good ideas in here nonetheless.Wigginnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-83879011650283261392010-01-13T10:19:45.075+01:002010-01-13T10:19:45.075+01:00this type of game allready exists - just try out E...this type of game allready exists - just try out EVE online... <br /><br />oh - no monsters there *snif*Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-81241703662581316162010-01-13T05:44:10.034+01:002010-01-13T05:44:10.034+01:00While I like the idea, it would need to be much mo...While I like the idea, it would need to be much more diverse than this to work as an MMO. With the content provided, this would only work as a WCIII map, on a scale of minutes rather than days.<br /><br />First of all, there would need to be a lot of stuff to fill the hours. Perhaps you could get away with just a complicated economy to achieve this, perhaps not. I'm thinking maybe you can have a battleground like pvp system with the same idea as the PVE system, only much faster paced. Queue for a battleground as a toolcrafter, quickly use the resources at hand to give tools to those who need them most. Work over the course of an hour to help my team to victory. When everyone's got tools, perhaps I help with fortifications or pick up a pickaxe (my own, mastercraft) and do some simple mining. Then, the top guilds could get into rated "battlegrounds"(placeholder name) and fight for supremacy with people of various skill levels. Perhaps if you win a "battleground" you can make everything you do 200% faster for the next hour, with the battlegrounds lasting an hour. During the battleground you carried on tasks as if you were offline.<br /><br />Just an idea to fill the gaps.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-77247648390485599392010-01-13T04:06:45.482+01:002010-01-13T04:06:45.482+01:00Does "persistent" mean that the world do...Does "persistent" mean that the world does not change? (e.g. the Quilboar in the Barrens are always there, pre-Cataclysm at least, neither gaining nor losing any ground)<br /><br />Or does "persistent" mean the player's actions have a lasting effect? (e.g. in Gevlon's game you build a structure that stays on the map, generating resources but also attracting enemies)<br /><br />Didn't a "persistent world" originally just mean that the world continued to exist while the player was logged out?<br /><br />When you argue about the value of "persistence," how do you know the other guy is even talking about the same thing? :)<br /><br />To avoid that word, I'll say that I really look forward to an MMO where the players can change the face of the world.<br /><br />Gevlon's idea falls short of this, but it actually does seem like a feasible project and I would love to see developed further. (Hear me, big-budget game developers? I would buy this product!)<br /><br />P.S. -- And YES, for goodness' sake, the way to obtain Axe of Giant Strength +9 should be to kill the guy wielding Axe of Giant Strength +9. MUDs had this right in the early 90's...Wyrmbreakernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-56458210940096308852010-01-13T00:48:56.277+01:002010-01-13T00:48:56.277+01:00I'd like to give some input on your boredom &q...I'd like to give some input on your boredom "problem". You said that end game guilds don't kill a boss in 100 attempts and I agree to that , but while 100 attempts and a whole day hunting can take the same number of minutes , they don't take the same number of keys pressed. In a boss fight , even if you wipe , you are doing something (mashing buttons). What can you do during hunting that can be entertaining enough to keep even a modest number of players busy ?<br /><br />I have tried playing some "hunting" games (the first Carnivores game comes to mind) , but without a scanner tool , finding anything to kill at all was almost too hard. <br /><br />Indeed , that was a single player game and the same scenario in a MMO would be more interesting (at least for me) because I would be motivated to hunt - if I didn't then some other hunter would get the kill. But this brings on another problem. <br /><br />How would you adres "kill-stealing" ? While this would make room for some innovative pvp strategies (let X track the beasts , I'll just afk follow him and the shoot the beast first when he finds) , this may cause serious greafing problems.kardynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-55760458511006041472010-01-12T22:54:43.958+01:002010-01-12T22:54:43.958+01:00I think I would really like a game like that. To b...I think I would really like a game like that. To be honest, I think it needs some tweaking to give people more long term aims and a sense of progression and perhaps some variety day by day. But I think the idea is a great one and well thought out.<br /><br />I wouldn't necessarily see it as being a WoW style interface though. I hate to say this but I could see this as being one of those facebook flash games where you log on frequently for a small amount of time serveral times a day. I think it would make a fantastic alternative to all those "Cafe World" games which actually having something in common with them! Ok so maybe that wouldn't work, it would just become a resource management game then, not in any way an MMORPG game.John Burtonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04910401851064983255noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-6105698326161910172010-01-12T21:55:43.350+01:002010-01-12T21:55:43.350+01:00Okay so my first reaction was: this is an archaic ...Okay so my first reaction was: this is an archaic version of second life. One needs extensive real-life experience to accomplish anything in it. Would even casual players have to read tutorial after tutorial and NPC suggestions over and over again just to get a mining camp functioning? Also, how does a beginner start up? does he get a laundry-list of tools and food and oxen and manpower to start up whatever he wants to do? <br />One would also have to implement some type of achievement system, because even in a game that simulates a real-esque world, players have to feel some notion of accomplishment... or they will just feel even more powerless in the world than a beginner may already feel.<br />My final observation is that no matter how awesome this persistent world seems to be, the ENGINE that the game utilizes, and the method in which the players play is all important. If making a masterwork mithril longsword requires the craftsman to complete some type of God-of-War-esque button-timing thing, or (to top of this absurd depth to which you must know the game world) some incredibly difficult typing sequence that must be repeated for minutes at a time, it would have a better chance to captivate HC people (while denying that ability to casuals).<br /><br />Overall, i applaud the vision and it would be so amazing if it were to be encapsulated in game form. Although, sadly, there was a game with a somewhat similar depth called True Fantasy Live Online that was supposed to release many years ago for XBOX that never made it to release. Alas, hopefully it will be possible in the future.Vernichtungnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-7783726671244092832010-01-12T20:06:23.898+01:002010-01-12T20:06:23.898+01:00I don't think people are going to like "w...I don't think people are going to like "winning" MMOs via reset. I think the problem is that two of the more enjoyable parts of them are the social part and the advancement part. It's hard to get someone interested in working and grinding and planning and building things that are designed to go away. In that context, you win the MMO and all you get for it is having to rebuild your guild on another server and having to redo all the hard work and grinding to get to where you are. Imagine if every time Blizzard patched in a new raid, you had to re-roll from level 1.ZachPruckowskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15952603904161496266noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-67131064931689503302010-01-12T19:19:25.066+01:002010-01-12T19:19:25.066+01:00I like the idea, or more precise the idea of a mmo...I like the idea, or more precise the idea of a mmo that obtaining anything is actually an effort. But like Treekat said EVE has quite the lovely market system.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-22913747866574645562010-01-12T18:49:38.148+01:002010-01-12T18:49:38.148+01:00Not a bad idea though of course the system as prop...Not a bad idea though of course the system as proposed would have aspects that would make the game unplayble to a large segment of the population.<br /><br />This system requires some pretty serious time scheduling if implemented as stated. Players would have to schedule themselves to be present for Witching Hour or lose a significant chunk of progress. That can definetely be mitigated in many ways but of course the question is whether you would want to mitigate it or you simply do not want those players in your game.<br /><br />This game would constantly try to reset the players to 'square one'. So the question is how much of my time would be required for me to waste (by repeatign non-challenging activities) if I could not meet my schedule all the time (eg. have to stay late at work, get sick and stay in bed, go on a vacation)?Nielashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08685329191772513319noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-42146856959238151232010-01-12T18:47:35.409+01:002010-01-12T18:47:35.409+01:00No offense... but this game would be boring to mos...No offense... but this game would be boring to most people.<br /><br />You have very little combat, which is what most people play these games for. You have 1 hour a day of fighting undead, that players have to specifically log in for that hour. And then you have beasts to fight, which you say a player would be lucky to find one a day.<br /><br />That, is BORING (to most gamers). People play these games to fight things...1 hour +1 beast a day is not enough to entice people to play. Specially if that hour is a set hour a day.<br /><br />You still have the problem of a persistent world, only now yours just resets everything back to zero and destroys everything you have created. You yourself said eventually the undead will overrun everything.<br /><br />Who wants to play a game where no matter what you do everything is reset to zero (yes I get that you keep your loot etc, but the world still goes back, all your mines are gone. All your work is gone...it's still a persistent world where nothing you do matters).<br /><br />Then you have the balance issues, people are sorta dumb and almost everyone would roll miners because hey mining gets you the gold from NPCs...(and yes most people are too dumb to be a supplier to the miners.. comeon you talk about M+S in wow all the time.. you know this).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-83385720153321757172010-01-12T18:46:19.328+01:002010-01-12T18:46:19.328+01:00while it sounds good and nice, i just have a few q...while it sounds good and nice, i just have a few questions/suggestions. <br /><br />also, as far as i read ( might be mistakken ) once you builded something, you can't recycle it/party retake it. might be a nice thing to.<br /><br />how about teaming up? if 2 players build a mine, does it go faster/bigger? are the resources automaticly devided by the players who help there ( of course players can change the amount or % amount themselfes beforehand )?<br /><br />if you don't build a tower yourself, but on the mine for someone else, as who's property does it count?<br /><br />do player created city's also keep on being attacked by stronger and stronger waves?<br /><br />is the first attack of the necromancers calculated by the amount of valuabels gainabel, or just a pre-determined amount?zeonznoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-53314304269342396432010-01-12T18:34:50.645+01:002010-01-12T18:34:50.645+01:00I like the concept, but why exactly are the Necrom...I like the concept, but why exactly are the Necromancers on the islands? It seems apparent that they aren't there to mine the ores. So they're raising the undead for some other purpose, such as building an army to invade the mainland? They must have ships and bases of their own or that wouldn't be possible. Would you be able to go and attack their bases and burn down their ships?<br /><br />The concept is a very good one. Gathering resources has a downside to it which you must decide if its economically viable to carry out. I'm not going to lie though. It doesn't seem like enough for a full fledged game in its current form. Maybe it would be good if it was a part of an MMO which had other things like a traditional MMO. Or maybe if the concept was expanded to something like the kingdoms being at war with these guys and you could raise armies or go on missions against them besides simply gathering resources. Everything would be dynamic of course in that regard where if you kill some necromancers, they're dead forever.<br /><br />Might be kind of good. Might also get kind of repetitive. I've been trying to think up a way to create a game world where all the questing content was unique and had an effect on the world, but my only solution was to have 1000 or so times the content of other games, which would be nearly impossible to do in any reasonable amount of time. An idea like yours however could possibly work.Glyph, the Architecthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05770027239906401274noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-16140479663143844622010-01-12T18:29:41.364+01:002010-01-12T18:29:41.364+01:00Gevlon,
Go try EVE Online... It's basically e...Gevlon,<br /><br />Go try EVE Online... It's basically exactly what you're talking about, except in space and there are no undead.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09310643246975783379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-62955818417244277262010-01-12T18:06:16.402+01:002010-01-12T18:06:16.402+01:00You know, I like some of the ideas you have explai...You know, I like some of the ideas you have explained. But as I was reading some other comments, I began to think of a game in my head, and it kinda steals away from other games I have played. So here are a few key points / ideas:<br /><br />PVP Ground, massive land, opportunities for players, shipments, bases to get jumped. different classes thrive in different types of land scapes. Mages use power of water, fire, ice, to aid them. Rogues and hunters thrive in forest areas. Warriors thrive in open landscape.<br /><br />-The "win" part of the game is to kill the opponents king, and take over the rest of their city/land. These games take a few weeks, and when a side wins, that faction is awarded gold or badges or something. You can then join the queue again for another game. You will not always be part of the same faction, you will get a player score, and the games will be set up to try and balance the "match"<br /><br />-throughout the match, you must build defenses in your base to start. Fortifications and mines, lumber yards to advance your player army. Mines are prosperous the first few days, but gradually decrease output (never to 0 though), so you must continue scouting new sites. You need resources to continue building advancements, weapons, fortifications etc...<br /><br />-Enemy bases are heavily guarded, and are usually overtaken by taking out shipments to the base, reducing its ability to maintain, pestering players supplying it, and eventually large tactical strikes to finish it off. You can then dismantle it for resources, or take over whats left of it.<br /><br />-The idea of the game is sort of based on dota/C&C/warcraft idea, except its wow style. and much larger scale. Losing a match gets you xp, and maybe some gold. which then you can purchase badges for gear.<br /><br />-The idea of the game is to change the influence your faction has over the land. Maybe at a certain point in the game, your faction can hold a poll to surrender to the opposing faction, ending the game.<br /><br />The more resources you have left over at the end of a game, the greater your rewards (long matches will compensate with greater benefits for both factions).<br /><br />simple building tools are easily crafted at first. you can profit off the game in different ways. Either your guild could set itself up to mine, or to harass the other faction, killing other players or enemy npc's gets you gold. So does mining, lumbering, food gathering. The more are experienced in the above, the more you can profit. except killing another player. The amount you are awarded is based on their player / gearscore. High ranked players will not profit much off killing low ranked, but the chances are low ranked will kill a high ranked is low, thus the high profit he would get would not be likely. Like Your idea, if you die, you are teleported naked. However, you retain all your xp / level / abilities, but you must re-aquire gear. Most players will have a back up set of gear in the bank before they attempt something that would possibly get them killed. You can only teleport back to base with all of you gear if you are above a certain % of hp. teleport is on cooldown (long). <br /><br />You can aquire mounts by training, capturing and domesticating mountable creatures (horses, camels, donkeys, or more exotic beasts like rhinos, elephants etc, mostly used for battle)<br /><br />These are also just some ideas I've thought about in the last 20 minutes or so. Please also let me know what you guys think.warcraftlifehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11283715328104574194noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-56665699358094375102010-01-12T18:02:54.334+01:002010-01-12T18:02:54.334+01:00Seems like a decent concept, I just have a few iss...Seems like a decent concept, I just have a few issues with the game, though.<br /><br />You said in a comment that "You want to END it by destroying the necromancers, ending the game for everyone."<br /><br />This is true, unless the necromancers are not the only bad guy. That's one of the "changing" things about WoW. Every 2-12 months, there are new bosses to defeat. If your game doesn't allow the players to beat the current bad guys, they have no incentive to continue playing for very long, as it'll just be the same thing over and over. You'll collect resources, build base defenses, move supplies, fight the same mobs. Zombies in your game act roughly the same as those “quillboars” in WoW.<br /><br />But it gets worse: Not only can I not ever win your game, or even defeat the current big bad guy, I am guaranteed to lose from day 1.<br /><br />From your original post: "As the undead attack will be stronger every day, there will come a point when the defense becomes economically unprofitable…"<br /><br />So I know from the moment I first start your game that eventually one of three things will happen:<br /><br />1. The server is overpopulate, all the resources are consumed, and the necromancers continually increasing power beats out everyone's ability to defend their current bases. Everyone is overrun, server ends.<br /><br />2. There aren't enough players to completely destroy the naturally respawning resources such as food and lumber, but eventually they use up all the mines, running out of building material. At that point, the undead's continually increasing power eventually overruns all player bases, ending the server for everyone.<br /><br />3. There aren't enough players to use up all of the resources and they don't get a chance because they get overrun by the ever increasing power of the undead horde. As with the other scenarios, the server ends when the players are all defeated.<br /><br />Personally, I wouldn't begin playing a game where I knew I would never have a chance of winning against even the current enemy AND the ever increasing power of that enemy coupled with ever decreasing resources guarantees I will lose the game given time.<br /><br />If the mining nodes respawned, then at least your game would be sustainable for a longer period, but eventually the zombie horde would overpower every base even with infinite resources.<br /><br />The only solution I can come up with is to have infinite resources (all resources spawn on timers) and a revolving enemy system. Make it possible to defeat this bad guy, then the server gets to work enemy free for a month before a new bad guy comes into play.<br /><br />The new bad guy won't act exactly the same as the previous, so tactics use before may not work this time. That way you have to come up with a new strategy if your current one doesn't work that well. This means it's not just the land itself that changes, which to me is of moderately low value in gameplay, but the actions of the player must evolve.<br /><br />Also, the new bad guy will be slightly more powerful than the last one was when he was defeated, but not powerful enough to be server-ending.<br /><br />Lastly, it would be really neat if there was a way to develop new sciences during the course of the server's existence. Maybe not nuclear or electric power (though electricity is not hard to do), but there's no reason why steam powered machines at the very least can't exist. All the "science" it really takes to make steam power is the abilities to create fire, collect water, and make a pressure cooker with a pipe system leading out. Some basic understanding of pressure systems, which the player's characters can learn with experience dealing with the tech, would be necessary to increase the power of the steam engines.<br /><br />With new technologies being added to the game world, innovation is possible, and innovation is probably a much more interesting "change" for a game world than simply the ability to strip a forest of it's lumber and food game.Braillehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17308195595532614608noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-15669746218822817602010-01-12T18:01:58.711+01:002010-01-12T18:01:58.711+01:00I agree that gevlon's idea is pretty good. Com...I agree that gevlon's idea is pretty good. Coming from a game development background, I think there are many interesting concepts to the game. Will it be interesting? The answer is yes. But then again, games are mostly created with an audience in mind. If everyone wants to play fighting classes, then the miner and gatherer numbers will go down and affect the viability of the economy and other classes.<br /><br />On the other hand I have played fully text based mmos called MUDs which are very very fun and immersive. That MUD I play doesn't change that greatly based on player action but has other interesting elements. A notable one is their dragon kill system. <br /><br />Dragons has set up lair all over the world and I think there are up to 20 dragons at any one time. The dragons have different colours and after killing them you can skin them so everyone in raid gets the hide. The hide is of course pretty rare and can be crafted into decent gear.<br /><br />One thing to note is that the lair's location is hidden. And every new lair's location is random. There are 2 ways to find a lair's entrance. 1, via a map which will drop off certain world mobs. 2, You happen to stumble upon signs of dragon tracks, droppings etc and after searching the huge area, you find the entrance and note down its coordinates.<br /><br />Another thing is, you have to form a huge party to slay the dragon. The dungeon is randomly created and on the last level, you reach the dragon. Fight it til a certain % and it will fly off and attack one of the nearby towns. Everyone will then get to the town and finish off the dragon. If the dragon fail to die after sometime, it will simply fly off and make a new lair. And get stronger. I remember there was this dragon which got so strong it became unkillable in game. That was so memorable.Vyrnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-17653215366346324032010-01-12T18:00:56.845+01:002010-01-12T18:00:56.845+01:00"Oh, almost forgot. The undead and the beasts..."Oh, almost forgot. The undead and the beasts doesn't give loot that they don't have. You can gain meat from a boar, but no money or weapons. Boars usually don't run around with rare recipes you know!"<br /><br />I lol'd. This is something I've always been amused with in WoW, that you can get the most random and unrelated drops when you kill something... <br /><br />I like your idea. A lot. I'd play it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-53449428636890357582010-01-12T17:15:49.685+01:002010-01-12T17:15:49.685+01:00There was something similar in the CONCEPT of what...There was something similar in the CONCEPT of what you are talking about back in the day before WoW. It was called Planetside. Now, you didn't have the gatherers but you did have cloaked characters that could spy out the competition. You had drivers that could drive people in planes or carriers and you had people that could attack via vehicles or using suits. The object of the game was to take over the whole world. This had been done a handful of times but you were part of three armies. What killed it was the inclusion of very powerful mechs that threw the balance off. This is not like your game but the goals were definitely there.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12517890009464215866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-29768073837459175582010-01-12T16:30:38.754+01:002010-01-12T16:30:38.754+01:00I like that idea.I like that idea.Moxterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11864067368929195182noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-9209598562523952502010-01-12T16:19:38.647+01:002010-01-12T16:19:38.647+01:00I agree with others that Eve is probably the close...I agree with others that Eve is probably the closest thing you'll find. The players do change the world. Goon space is only goon space because goons continuously work to keep possession of their systems.Micahnoreply@blogger.com