tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post1465652740073810483..comments2024-02-27T14:44:07.868+01:00Comments on Greedy goblin: Smart Chinese, stupid GreeksGevlonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07072766785893313616noreply@blogger.comBlogger45125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-23609154910105251172012-01-02T06:34:28.658+01:002012-01-02T06:34:28.658+01:00Agree. Remove pensions and pension tax and let eve...Agree. Remove pensions and pension tax and let everyone save their own money. But how inflation will affect it? Who cares, with this system there will be no inflation! Smart people will take 10% of their increased salary and save it for pension age. Okay, I wouldn't, I don't want to travel abroad when I'm 65. I'd rather save 5% and travel now. But who cares! Or I won't save at all, and at 65 commit suicide.<br /><br />Fucking briliant.canIwriteNumbers564yesIcanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06532744364089858138noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-63205157531929585692011-11-16T16:01:14.394+01:002011-11-16T16:01:14.394+01:00While i am a very old subcsriber and i found evide...While i am a very old subcsriber and i found evidence of truth on your article, it seems that you did not search i n depth the Greek crisis. It's not just an economical crisis. It's a crisis of everything. I can't really explain you how huge is the gap of the reality and your opinion to reality(of Greece, always). If you ever visit Greece, you are welcome to contact me at galatix@gmail.com and i will easily turn your opinion around.<br /><br />The hell you name Greece is not just a typical case of inactives' dictatorship. Wish it was. You do not seem to know what violence, terror, inequality, anger, injustice, depression really means. They don't riot just for some money they wish to save. They riot about freedom mostly. They don't care if chinese are happy that they have "money" and no freedom( you cant argue on that, really). Here they want freedom and then they will find their way to money.<br /><br />Our thoughts about Greek crisis are so different it scares me. It's no point of trying to get you facts about who's right and who's wrong. Just visit Greece and you will see the difference between propaganda and reality! <br />Greetings from Greece, 16/11/11Insomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18184412747203403046noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-4022638637115432322011-10-31T08:47:12.933+01:002011-10-31T08:47:12.933+01:00Why don't you ever touch the subject of welfar...Why don't you ever touch the subject of welfare state in the scandinavian countries? Because there it actually works?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-56598496637349528962011-10-30T22:19:04.801+01:002011-10-30T22:19:04.801+01:00@PorceleinEve
Thank you, I had no idea that CDS e...@PorceleinEve<br /><br />Thank you, I had no idea that CDS even existed (I'm not a finance professional). But I've just read about them and the concept is frightening. It's financially advantageous for many that Greece does nothing and defaults on its loans.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-23280635487018462132011-10-29T05:21:15.380+02:002011-10-29T05:21:15.380+02:00Would we expect an occupying army of another natio...Would we expect an occupying army of another nation to behave differently in a nation than the nation's own army?<br /><br />I imagine we would.<br /><br />Would we expect deliberate looting and austerity designed to aid more deliberate looting to look different from the a nation's own government trying to build up that nation?<br /><br />I imagine we would.<br /><br />Do we imagine that all leaders are not identical, and do not have identical goals?<br /><br />Apparently not.<br /><br />In fact, it seems to be forbidden to mention that leaders could want anything but the absolute bestest for "their" nation. Apparently acting for their own personal gain at the expense of the public good is impossible.<br /><br />Doesn't seem like a very Goblinish attitude at all.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-3326619588130872842011-10-28T21:01:54.520+02:002011-10-28T21:01:54.520+02:00Forget right and wrong, Gevlon. Eradicate welfare...Forget right and wrong, Gevlon. Eradicate welfare, pensions, and healthcare and the disenfranchised populace will grow to critical mass and revolt.<br /><br />Then there will be a default on top of political instability, and everyone in europe will lose all their money in Greece. That's the cold facts.Stedehttp://www.stedesrevenge.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-49895339033768043622011-10-28T16:29:48.296+02:002011-10-28T16:29:48.296+02:00For the ppl wondering "why don't we just ...For the ppl wondering "why don't we just throw greece out of the eurozone". Many reasons, but here is one. In the bank markets out there, there is a thing called CDS. It's basically insurance you buy for bonds and other debt you might or might not own. So any smuck could have gone to a bank and get themselves some insurance against greek bonds defaulting. If europe were to throw greece out, greece would default, and those insurances against greek bonds should be paid. Now imagine that the insurance on a bond can be much higher than the value of the actuall bond. So if greece has 400bil euros debt, the value of the cds on that debt might be significantly bigger. So when the banks of spain, italy, ireland and portugal had to pay those insurance policies they sold, they'd probably would be out of money, and they'd colapse, taking their respective countries with them. After that, it's a domino effect and the rest of europe follows. It would have been better for the totality of europe to just print money like the uk and us do, use 'em to lighten the debt load of all overdebted countries and throw the rest inside europe to spur growth. Austerity measures tend to shrink economies, and with your economy shrinking, your debt grows in relation to your ability to pay it off...PorceleinEvenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-87893170825368386182011-10-28T01:42:56.567+02:002011-10-28T01:42:56.567+02:00I'm rather surprised that no one has suggested...I'm rather surprised that no one has suggested we cut Greece loose. Why does this have to be a problem that brings down Europe and possibly the world economy ? <br /><br />I can hear the bleeding heart liberals indignation at the mere suggestion that it isn't one for all and all for one.. Have we learned nothing from raiding with friends and wondering why we don't progress ?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-8004451702718496012011-10-28T01:20:04.194+02:002011-10-28T01:20:04.194+02:00A lot of what you say makes sense but there is one...A lot of what you say makes sense but there is one thing I take issue with.<br /><br />"Inactives" aren't always inactive by choice.<br /><br />With modern technology it takes a lot less humans to perform certain tasks. A farm that once employed 15 people may now only employ 2-3. A factory that employed 500 may now only need 20.<br /><br />Messages are delivered electronically instead of through a postal system that once sorted and delivered by hand. When you go to the supermarket, increasingly you speak to a machine to process your payment instead of person, same with your banking or when you want a train ticket. What happened to all the people who once held those jobs, are they all IT proffesionals now?<br /><br />Of course the system is creaking and groaning, because it is breaking.<br /><br />Eventually it will boil down to who owns machines and who does not own machines, with less and less oppurtunities for non-machine owners to support themselves financially. (With some exceptions of course).<br /><br />So where does society go from here... shall we just give a death sentence to all non-machine owners and get it over and done with? That is how Gevlon's post came across. Is there a better alternative?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-38665082975504103382011-10-27T21:35:56.340+02:002011-10-27T21:35:56.340+02:00As people have mentioned, the comparison is comple...As people have mentioned, the comparison is completely ridiculous. It's not even apples and oranges anymore, it's apples and roller-skates.<br /><br />It may very well be that austerity measures are required to get Greece past this, but let us not pretend that does anything other than shift costs onto individuals. The demand for goods is still low, and austerity does nothing to help the 20%+ unemployment rate. Nevermind whatever other systemic problems are going on (low tax participation rates as others have mentioned, corruption, etc).Azurielhttp://inanage.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-78783189817868868502011-10-27T21:20:30.727+02:002011-10-27T21:20:30.727+02:00Most actives would agree that some public assistan...Most actives would agree that some public assistance is warranted and would be willing to pay increased taxes to support it if the government would a) cut spending where needed and b) reduce abuse of the system. If someone is receiving welfare due to illness or age is one thing, but to be multi-generational recipients due to lack of self-accountability and pure laziness is unacceptable.Troutrouternoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-13781093863068771922011-10-27T20:53:30.515+02:002011-10-27T20:53:30.515+02:00What about an article "Smart Scandinavians, s...What about an article "Smart Scandinavians, stupid Greeks"?<br /><br />Even if you exclude Norway (rich due to oil) the other three scandinavian countires seem to be in pretty good condition, even in the current crisis. They might not have 10% growth rates like China, but considering there already very high distributed (!) wealth that would be pretty insane anyway.<br /><br />I'd also bet you'd rather live in Sweden than in China if you had to chose.<br /><br />In case you didn't get my point: in my opinion you are cherry-picking the countries to compare so they fit your thesis "welfare = bad". You could pick other countries to compare (Greece and Sweden for example) and have a much harder time to apply your theory. Even if we agree that Greece went way too far with their amount of public welfare, then you still have a hard time to argue that public welfare, even on a high level (scandinavian countries!) is bad per se looking at said Scandinavian countries.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-14667375648358403762011-10-27T20:42:37.844+02:002011-10-27T20:42:37.844+02:00@ Dillion
You said "another side effect fro...@ Dillion <br /><br />You said "another side effect from the great depression was that pregnancy rates went up greatly. This created what was referred to as the baby boomers. Large families of 6 or more children per house hold. "<br /><br />Boy are misinformed. The baby boom happened AFTER WW2. Please get your facts right before posting silly things like this.Goodmongohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10116895654322387056noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-85870256498299868962011-10-27T20:25:51.531+02:002011-10-27T20:25:51.531+02:00The issue lies with placing benefits at the feet o...The issue lies with placing benefits at the feet of those to follow. For instance, in American we have Social Security which was designed to aid the elderly during the great depression. It was designed based on the assumption that the population would continue to grow and that more hands would contribute to it.<br /><br />Now this is somewhat right, but another side effect from the great depression was that pregnancy rates went up greatly. I mean, come on. You're having a hard time, can't get a job and life sucks. All you want to do is have a little comfort sex, for a decade.<br /><br />This created what was referred to as the baby boomers. Large families of 6 or more children per house hold. They helped social security as they went into the work force, contributing their taxes but they were paying for their forefathers and not for their own future. Because their were so many of them gov't adjusted social security benefits higher than it should have for the previous generation versus saving and investing. At this stage they might have created a regenerating fund had it have been managed properly.<br /><br />So nowadays, as the baby-boomers are hitting retirement the coffers are drying up because of the failure to plan. Perhaps its due to the assumption that families would continue to be bigger. Most of my friends are only children or have one sibling and the lack of contributory incomes is only just slowing the failing.<br /><br />This is the pension system. Assuming that tomorrow's workers can support today's.<br /><br />For all, I'd say that there needs to be some reform. Is it gonna be easy? Not likely. But we're going to continue to fall in the mud as a world if we don't do something.Dillionnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-61023711312723851152011-10-27T20:01:25.125+02:002011-10-27T20:01:25.125+02:00http://www.tradingeconomics.com/greece/indicators ...http://www.tradingeconomics.com/greece/indicators - in case anyone wanted some hard data. @Anonymous who implied that military spending was overly high in Greece - military spending was under 8% of total government expenditures last year. Now, military spending could still be at fault, but it's a very small piece of the puzzle at under 8%.Wodinnnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-36844715498946472312011-10-27T18:56:04.536+02:002011-10-27T18:56:04.536+02:00Gevlon I will not comment on the fact that, conven...Gevlon I will not comment on the fact that, conveniently, you do not provide any real data to support your "analysis". <br /><br />It is however strange that you think China is the example to follow. According to you we should aspire our countries to become like China because they have 10% growth. <br />Not like Australia or Sweden or Canada or other lame countries like that. Those noobs have social support structures and high levels of democracy - sorry I meant idiot votes.<br /><br />Obviously, in Greece, welfare is the root of the evil. The huge corruption and bureaucracy that sucks the life out of all healthy business has nothing to do with it. And I'm pretty sure that Island's crisis that started in 2008 was because of their welfare system too...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-20874590216094472792011-10-27T18:28:12.185+02:002011-10-27T18:28:12.185+02:00People need to understand that work effert != prod...People need to understand that work effert != productive work.<br /><br />I can work 20 hour days shoveling a pile of dirt from spot A to spot B and then back again. I worked really hard.<br /><br />But that means NOTHING. I didn't accomplish anything. I was unproductive. Get off the crazy thought process that working hard means you should get something. You need to be productive to be rewarded.Goodmongohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10116895654322387056noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-51470903093791814402011-10-27T16:52:14.748+02:002011-10-27T16:52:14.748+02:00" the USA wants to introduce some toll agains..." the USA wants to introduce some toll against them claiming that the Chinese money is artificially undervalued."<br /><br />I'm not sure why you are calling it a claim. It is a fact that China controls the value of its officially interantionally available currency by controlling the exchange rate to the locally usable currency forcing an artificially contrived value with respect to other currencies.<br /><br />There is one other flaw in your arguement that the noisyrogue pointed out. Taxes. Greece has them but nobody pays really. In fact there is no official agency in charge of enforcing tax collection, right now they are trying to collect tax through utility bills(electricity) and most people are in an uproar. <br /><br />However, to many of the complainers a very large portion of Greece's debt crisis is their social benefits, which are very good, and while its not the sole reason it is a substantial one.Joshuahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11864632156683028648noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-87893136980426537332011-10-27T16:40:42.157+02:002011-10-27T16:40:42.157+02:00@Urlik
You make a typical liberal mistake. You as...@Urlik<br />You make a typical liberal mistake. You assume that a government worker is actually producing something. They are not.<br /><br />All dollars paid to government workers come from private workers. Yes the government worker does things with those dollars but nothing that the private worker wouldn't have done.<br /><br />Some government is necessary but once government of all kinds exceed 30% of GDP there are problems sustaining it. After all why produce if we can simply write a check to ourselves?Goodmongohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10116895654322387056noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-7531513592560522082011-10-27T15:53:24.745+02:002011-10-27T15:53:24.745+02:00Bread & circus certainly contributed to the ec...Bread & circus certainly contributed to the economic death-spiral that eventually destroyed the Roman Empire. As they wrecked their economy, they couldn't afford the military might that kept the barbarians at the gate. <br /><br />While late Rome certainly wasn't a democracy, the government had to satisfy the mob to retain power. Unfortunately, modern democracy is subject to the tyranny of the mob as well. We'll just have to see how much power the whole Occupy Wall Street movement gains within Western governments... it's hard to tell exactly what they want, but it sure looks a lot like bread & circus to me.Klurgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-1125308122663676982011-10-27T15:28:25.412+02:002011-10-27T15:28:25.412+02:00The irony of your argument is that the richest peo...The irony of your argument is that the richest people in China are the inactive bureaucrats and the relatives of government officials. The most productive members of the Chinese society are those living in the countrysides and working the land, or those working in the factories, both of whom could be categorised as the least rewarded / closest to poverty.<br /><br />There is near zero correlation between work effort and reward. That doesn't sound very goblinish to me.Squishalothttp://www.wowhead.com/user=Squishalotnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-90855571392806015422011-10-27T15:18:56.845+02:002011-10-27T15:18:56.845+02:00I think having a bit more knowledge about the stru...I think having a bit more knowledge about the structure of debt would help.<br /><br />When 90% of debt over the last thirty years is made of interests, and only 10% of real spending, thinking that a fraction of these 10% is the problem seems a bit illogical.<br /><br />And even if it was, we need the poor to keep receiving this money because they spend it all, and we don't need their workforce.<br /><br />What's the interest of economizing so little money that is almost completely used to sustain a most needed consumption?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-30746369170713195182011-10-27T15:17:49.353+02:002011-10-27T15:17:49.353+02:00Oh, by the way. Saying that social transfers go no...Oh, by the way. Saying that social transfers go nowhere is retarded.<br /><br />Business has two ends, creating and consuming. If everybody creates, what do you get?<br />Yeah. '29.<br />In a shard of the whole economy, it can work. You can export.<br />In the whole economy, no. Production has to be equal to consuming.<br />Social Transfered money will highen consumes, at investments' damage.<br />And that's not necessarily bad.<br />Now, if you want to get out of the current system, produce as much as you can and gift it, sure... but the human race, as a whole, is too greedy/stupid to make such a thing work.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-53880154590062876612011-10-27T15:13:27.548+02:002011-10-27T15:13:27.548+02:00@Andru
Do you know anything about basic economics?...@Andru<br />Do you know anything about basic economics?<br />Bank has 100$<br />Bank loans 90$ to X (10% is the net required atm)<br />X deposits them at Bank<br />Bank has 90$<br />Bank loans Y 81$<br />And so it goes.<br />Meanwhile, Bank gets the interest on _ALL_ loans: In a few years, the money can be more-than-doubled. Now, it's not the exact case that happens, but it's possible.<br />Arguably, any money made off interest is "made from nothing". No work has been done for it.<br />Loaning capital is not a work, it doesn't create wares - at best, it enables SOMEONE ELSE to create wares.<br /><br />Now.<br />The current crysis is surely a dependant on the concept of interest itself, but Greece's problems are far from being determined from that.<br />The problem is that countries all around the world kept their debts too high for too long, even highening them - And that modus operandi then diffused in every business.<br />I'm pretty sure Blizzard itself has money in loans, on which it's paying interest - And meanwhile, they build statues at their HQs and keep filing dividends.<br />It's simply failure at basic economic principles - Keeping capital that is not needed.<br />A debt-financed economy surely has advantages, but the concept of interest, whilist being applicable easily on small particles, creates problem on a bigger scale, when the money created out of interest outscales the wares created due to the loans being given.<br />The economy itself is based on the assumption that capital generates more capital, without work involved.<br />If you don't think this is wrong, i don't know how to help you - but again, it's NOT the cause of greece's problems.<br /><br />China is a bubble, and won't last more than 10 or 15 years. Then will come india.<br />Japan, v2.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-81668090053807538652011-10-27T13:35:23.199+02:002011-10-27T13:35:23.199+02:00I think the main difference between Greece and Chi...I think the main difference between Greece and China is that China's economy is growing and they have more money.<br /><br />The Chinese economy is very inefficient. I have been there and seen many examples of how they are wasting money. Inefficient manufacturing practices, hundreds of empty buildings and they are still building. They are still growing because labor is cheap, and other countries are trying to get into the Chinese market.<br /><br />If eventually China's economy was to slow down, and they did not have huge amounts of cash laying around, they would be in trouble.<br /><br />This is what happened in Greece. Greece made some bad choices, but got away with it because of an influx of cash when they joined the EU. Now that the economy has slowed down those choices are catching up to them.scotthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12355139676022243690noreply@blogger.com