tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post9022240949246899525..comments2024-02-27T14:44:07.868+01:00Comments on Greedy goblin: Misogyny at the extreme: 4 fun ppl vs womenGevlonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07072766785893313616noreply@blogger.comBlogger40125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-78264459636165553072014-09-08T11:21:41.222+02:002014-09-08T11:21:41.222+02:00here relevant response/critique from the gaming go...here relevant response/critique from the gaming goose. He even so far to copy her fromat but with much more effort into research of the topic.<br /><br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvJ7KQFVoms<br /><br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpYINU6VkGA<br /><br /><br />Ontopic.<br /><br />I disable chat. and if not possible I resize chat. and if that is not possible the game has to be really good otherwise I will not play it. It's that simple. And I play over a decade with this in mind.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-22970931070592104482014-09-05T13:22:19.514+02:002014-09-05T13:22:19.514+02:00@Gevlon - most female civilians in Hitman aren'...@Gevlon - most female civilians in Hitman aren't sexualised either. <br /><br />As stated it is no more unreasonable to expect a Strip Club trope in an under world based game than it is to expect a casino in a James bond game. <br /><br />It is perfectly reasonable to expect there to be strippers in the strip club and that they are by their very nature sexualised (voluntarily, unless there is a trafficking theme). <br /><br />A seedy vibe is a perfectly reasonable trope in a gangsters strip club. <br /><br />The club only makes up a tiny portion of the game so the trope is not used excessively/gratuitously. <br /><br />The free market provides a wide range of games for all tastes. Those buying a "Hitman" game will buy the product with certain perfectly reasonable expectations of what is contained within a game of that genre. <br /><br />They would not expect a level based in an animal shelter or a hostel for ethnic minority wheelchair bound transsexuals who have violent partners. <br /><br />As an asexual I would never visit a strip club in real life and am baffled as to why men like having their levels of arrousal increased to such a level but with no release provided. Perhaps you can explain that to me? <br /><br />I would however feel entitled to the strip club trope when handing over £50 for a game about the criminal underworld and that wouldn't be because I want to be aroused (because it won't have that effect on me). I'd be extremely annoyed if instead of classic underworld locations it instead turned into a social justice fantasy world based in animal shelters and charity shops. <br /><br />Inappropriate sexualisation would be playing The Last of Us and upon reaching the Firefly labs discovering that the female scientists were all wearing sexualised "nurses outfits"(you know the ones) where as the male scientists wore regular lab coats. <br /><br />I would be absolutely furious if that happened and would be blasting Naughty Dog and Sony on every forum I use. <br /><br />Of course I'd have no complaint if someone made a game where all women (or men) were gratuitously sexualised so long as it was advertised as such from that start (that is just pornography right) . It's a free market and I just would not buy it. Woodyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12938274286927262455noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-90317642912908227632014-09-05T12:25:09.009+02:002014-09-05T12:25:09.009+02:00Hitman is targeted at the young male segment of th...Hitman is targeted at the young male segment of the gamers population, that's why it cater to tropes which most young males want and doesn't care that some of tese might annoy female gamers: they are simply not the main target demographics.<br /><br />Hitman is a very successful game so it's difficult to criticize its market placement choice. Basically the interesting question is: "would the game be more or less successful with a different target demographic, or by being more careful in not. annoying non-target demographics pkayers?".<br /><br />Basically female sexualization is a game characteristic: if you don't like it buy a different game just like if you don't like violence you don't buy violent games. But since there are players wo do like these characteristic it's perfectly fine for software companies to target their products at them.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-16505092889455023972014-09-05T11:54:43.657+02:002014-09-05T11:54:43.657+02:00@Woody: male cannon fodders weren't sexualized...@Woody: male cannon fodders weren't sexualized.Gevlonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07072766785893313616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-12801375045618472622014-09-05T11:44:53.849+02:002014-09-05T11:44:53.849+02:00Sorry I should have added that a "Hitman"...Sorry I should have added that a "Hitman" game is about the under world (no suprise). <br /><br />I don't expect an animal shelter level. <br /><br />The strip club was 4% of the game however. A tiny portion but still a perfectly reasonable trope in an under world based game. Woodyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12938274286927262455noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-764862190390034242014-09-05T11:39:40.653+02:002014-09-05T11:39:40.653+02:00Armed adult males make up the majority of M&S ...Armed adult males make up the majority of M&S characters in gaming. <br /><br />In Hitman there are as many or more male civvie fodder than females. <br /><br />Sorry I don't get your point? Woodyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12938274286927262455noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-22845111067465730272014-09-05T04:53:34.961+02:002014-09-05T04:53:34.961+02:00The women were just simulations of M&S in a si...<i>The women were just simulations of M&S in a single player game. Therefore they had to be designed to have demonstrated the same level of stupidity as M&S. They deserved to die just as the M&S deserve to die.</i><br /><br />Good work, it looks like you've almost got it!<br /><br />Now there's only a few pieces of the puzzle left to fit into place: Why do you suppose the defenseless M&S characters are portrayed as strippers or prostitutes?<br /><br />Why are they never old people in a retirement home, or children at a day care center, or puppies at the animal shelter? Those groups are even less able to defend themselves from assault than the average stripper, so they're more obvious choices to play the M&S role. <br /><br />And, for that matter, why was the strip club chosen as the setting to begin with? That's been done in so many games already! If you need a site for criminal activity, why not use something a little different? Like maybe the crooked doctors at the retirement home (or the animal shelter) are selling prescription painkillers on the black market instead of giving them to the patients. You could go there to either arrest the evildoers or get a cut of the profits, and there could be a big shootout.<br /><br />Anyway, once you've figured out the answer to those questions, you'll have a perfect understanding of what the "misogyny" debate is all about!<br /><br />Let me know if you need hints.Chaos Engineerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02227272346806552369noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-31241732056755728872014-09-05T02:57:26.096+02:002014-09-05T02:57:26.096+02:00Hitman as a series punishes senseless violence and...Hitman as a series punishes senseless violence and rewards clean, quiet jobs. Most of the targets are men, and the women who are targets are empowered, deadly killers. It's really a terrible example when there are thousands of better examples.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-41784208624708314842014-09-04T03:01:32.201+02:002014-09-04T03:01:32.201+02:00"@Daniel: even if it's true, that money i..."@Daniel: even if it's true, that money is well earned. She puts her out into the fire of extremely obnoxious and dangerous idiouts to draw fire from those who can't fight for themselves. So it's completely normal that they pay her for it.<br /><br />If you think she's overpaid, free market says: go and do better, take that money for yourself!"<br /><br />Are you honestly suggesting that lying and hatemongering is a normal and valuable profession? If so, does your tolerance extend to people other people in the same line of work, such as Rush Limbaugh, Jerry Falwell and Joseph McCarthy? Anita is the exact equivalent of the above mentioned, only her ideology of choice and the target of her propaganda happen to differ.Daniel Plainnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-68244843494232685342014-09-03T19:44:50.941+02:002014-09-03T19:44:50.941+02:00Perhaps IO interactive put them there to simulate ...Perhaps IO interactive put them there to simulate and fulfil the role that M&S play in EVE?<br /><br />Both the EVE M&S and the fictional female strippers could have taken steps to defend themselves but didn't. The women didn't keep a gun or CS spray in the dressing room or lock the door etc.<br /><br />Therefore both provide an easy kill for a feeling of power/superiority and lols. <br /><br />The women were just simulations of M&S in a single player game. Therefore they had to be designed to have demonstrated the same level of stupidity as M&S. They deserved to die just as the M&S deserve to die.<br /><br />Most single player games have an M&S AI character class that exists for the purpose of easy pickings and filler to make the player feel powerful. <br /><br />If all the AI in Halo were the Elites and those stupid little guys that run away in fear didn't exist then the game wouldn't be much fun.<br /><br />In most games they are exclusively male (and almost exclusively in EVE). In Hitman they are equality-compliant and represent both sexes.<br /><br />I think M&S should be making Youtube videos about their representation in video games as opposed to Anita banging on with false accusations of sexism!Woodyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12938274286927262455noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-29086824825795736572014-09-03T19:04:29.628+02:002014-09-03T19:04:29.628+02:00@Woody: in EVE there are no civilians. The ones yo...@Woody: in EVE there are no civilians. The ones you gank are players who has the means to defend themselves. Those women in Hitman are NPCs, therefore need to be defended by other NPCs (or themselves). But the game fails to defend them, placing them there only as decoration and an easy victim.Gevlonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07072766785893313616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-53533480072239357522014-09-03T17:15:00.065+02:002014-09-03T17:15:00.065+02:00"However she is right that the game is very t..."However she is right that the game is very tolerant against any kind of wrongdoing which includes killing women."<br /><br />The only difference I can see between EVE and Hitman in that respect is that the spaceships aren't wearing bikinis. <br /><br />I mean both allow you to kill civilians who were just going about their business for the pure lols and are similarly tolerant of it. <br /><br />EVE of course involves destroying the assets of real people and encouraging depressed people to commit suicide. <br /><br />Granted you can kill women in bikinis in Hitman although only a small minority of female NPC's are dressed that way. <br /><br />Given the low female participation and other issues I'm surprised that she hasn't touched EVE yet. Woodyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12938274286927262455noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-48462654345625970272014-09-03T16:02:19.038+02:002014-09-03T16:02:19.038+02:00@Lyxi: I finally had time to watch the videos. I h...@Lyxi: I finally had time to watch the videos. I have no doubt that Hitman doesn't encourage killing women and Sarkeesian is wrong to suggest that.<br /><br />However she is right that the game is very tolerant against <b>any kind of wrongdoing</b> which includes killing women. <br /><br />I have an old post about this topic: http://greedygoblin.blogspot.hu/2013/06/damsel-in-distress.htmlGevlonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07072766785893313616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-7355555506935328722014-09-03T08:37:27.311+02:002014-09-03T08:37:27.311+02:00Yup jstk and it's no surprise that WoW is more...Yup jstk and it's no surprise that WoW is more popular than EVE with female players. <br /><br />I've always wondered why Blizzard seem to spend so much time on niche features for the small competitive hardcore of predominantly males as opposed to armour customisation options or a cosmetic armour shop. <br /><br />Seems to me that they are ignoring a large part of the market and leaving money on the table. <br /><br />They don't produce features that could earn them a lot of money from a sizeable female audience yet have the cheek to sign that smear campaign petition against gamers calling for less misogyny and more inclusion! Woodyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12938274286927262455noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-57595073066744345732014-09-02T21:57:24.856+02:002014-09-02T21:57:24.856+02:00This is a really good topic but I have to disagree...This is a really good topic but I have to disagree with a few things. <br /><br />>only 5% of the players are women, due to its extremely misogynist community.<br /><br />I know where you're getting to here. There is a lot of obnoxious fleet chat in large alliances, porn links here and there toguether with the typical 4chan sexist remarks but from personal experience most of the community isn't like that. Eve may have its fair share of detestable basement dwellers but for the most part people are mature.<br /><br />The main reason you don't see girls in Eve is mostly related to the type of game and the kind of experience it provides. Basic game design makes a clear distinction in which games are more likely to appeal to men and women. Men almost always universally prefer a competitive environment, violence, action and mastery of complex subjects. On another hand, women tend to prefer building, casual experiences, roleplaying, dressing up and socialization. Guess which side Eve heavily favours. jstkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13189193221678685401noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-80223179494907930452014-09-02T19:53:23.962+02:002014-09-02T19:53:23.962+02:00@Daniel: even if it's true, that money is well...@Daniel: even if it's true, that money is well earned. She puts her out into the fire of extremely obnoxious and dangerous idiouts to draw fire from those who can't fight for themselves. So it's completely normal that they pay her for it.<br /><br />If you think she's overpaid, free market says: go and do better, take that money for yourself!<br /><br />@Michelle: from the a-social viewpoint, you are completely right, they just say words that can't hurt you and you can just tell them to shut up. But most people are not only social but afraid of conflict and can't do what is obvious to you, tell them to shut up. If we want these people to subscribe games and give them a chance to improve their attitude, developers have to get rid of obnoxious people.<br /><br />I've never said that male players are basement dwellers. I've said that the obnoxious minority are.Gevlonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07072766785893313616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-61947239450669596722014-09-02T19:06:32.314+02:002014-09-02T19:06:32.314+02:00As a woman in game, I can tell you that the issues...As a woman in game, I can tell you that the issues you bring forward are just not as out of control as you might feel they are. Some corps are unwelcoming to women, but most are pretty easy going about it, although shocked the first time they hear you on TS.<br />Coming into a game that is mostly men you have to be willing to let some things slide, and to only recoil at things that really bother you. Some hard language should never be tolerated, but to go with a fleet that says they are "raping" another, it is usually enough to politely let them know it bothers you. You don't have to get all nasty, just let the people know you are flying with. Usually it will never come up again and if it does, one of the men will usually put a stop to it. I admit, I'm an unusual woman in space, my life experiences allow me to not be offended by men and most comments in general, but even to most conservative of women, not hitting the links in the fleet,letting the other pilots know you're there, or just letting them know politely your boundaries will lead to a pleasant gaming experience. Even while in fleets killing our enemy, CFC, where they have known I'm a women in one of their most hated alliances, Mordus Angels, I have never seen bad comments in local and once they know I'm there, the language will usually calm down even between the men.(Thank you CFC) In General most women don't play this kind of game. Not sure why, but they just don't. Now as for your last paragraph. I don't believe the men in game are basement dwelling, antisocial, virgins. They are just guys, who like to play video games. End of story.Michelle Brixius-Kasichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12418084478258276587noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-49955866323981762072014-09-02T18:38:52.012+02:002014-09-02T18:38:52.012+02:00Anita Sarkeesian is a professional victim. She has...Anita Sarkeesian is a professional victim. She has deliberately and repeatedly misrepresented facts to ignite antagonism among the less mature parts of the gaming community, so she could later turn around and point a finger at them and pretend to be persecuted. You, GG, as a somewhat notorious public personality should best understand how easy it is to provoke hateful idiots which are part of any community. The difference between you and Anita is that she is doing it on purpose and making serious amounts of money off of it. The only reason she gets away with it is her self-proclaimed status as feminist 'ambassador' to the gaming community. Political correctness prevents many people from speaking out against bullshit, if it is presented to them under the guise of feminism (which is ironically similar to what goes on in most religious circles).Daniel Plainnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-82513564484658924012014-09-02T10:24:08.754+02:002014-09-02T10:24:08.754+02:00@Gevlon
I feel that bringing single-player games i...@Gevlon<br />I feel that bringing single-player games in this is an invalid correlation.<br /><br />Single-player games obviously have their own exellent ways in which they work, but the problem of "4 fun ppl vs women" doesn't exist in single player games because there are no two players that can be toxic to each other.<br /><br />Toxicity only applies to multiplayer games. Saying "let's make games singleplayer and remove toxicity that way" defeats the entire purpose of having a multiplayer game to begin with.<br /><br />---------<br /><br />I don't see how you can impose strict restrictions on chat in MMORPG and keep it a MMORPG.<br /><br />Games that are MMOs but without a significant RP part can get away with having very limited chat. Heartstone is a good example of that. However, RP part cannot really thrive if you restrict all the saucy stuff out of it.<br /><br />Now, there is a sentiment that RP parts bring nothing to the game experience. This sentiment is false and is largely based on a very limited understanding on what RP aesthetics are and how they work.<br /><br />II can see how someone playing a pure ISK game would be interested in a more Hearthstone-like gameplay experience in Eve, in which you only really interact with ISK-making mechanics, picking and matching them like one would a deck of cards.<br />However, in such a game, there would be no Goons that you can call evil and have tons of fun crusading against - providing yourself with purpose and drive to farm even more ISK. In a Hearthstone-like game this experience would be reduced to something on the level of hating on murloc decks :/<br /><br />Eve is not that kind of game, though. Or rather, it can be that kind of game if you choose to limit yourself that way while playing it. But it can also be a very different kind of game, too.maximhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12576542229498004147noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-20685757037449590252014-09-02T06:28:26.577+02:002014-09-02T06:28:26.577+02:00We are very interested in sci-fi an several differ...We are very interested in sci-fi an several different forms, from drama to action. We do get involved in the CONs just like the guys do and love our shows/movies as much as they do. I personally live for Firefly, Dr Who and Torchwood for strong character development and story lines. While Star Wars and Star Trek are good, I tend to watch B-rated shows for pure action.<br /><br />Unfortunatly, it is the community in Eve that pushes females into very small, closed groups. I belong to a channel where 13 of the 14 channel mods are female. The rules of the channel are real simple, don't be a jerk, respect each other by keeping your sexist/racist/anti-alternate lifestlye/political/religious comments to yourself. If you can't, we quickly remove you from the channel.<br /><br />We have kept the channel up on and off for 6 years now and have a very large following because we actually HELP people learn to play the game, all without hand holding and creating more anti-social players.<br /><br />Whats interesting about this blog is that I use to spend a lot of time slamming Greedy Goblin, but kept coming back; sometimes I am glad I did, other times he returns to that toxic community member and I regret it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-47367102304184122722014-09-01T23:16:54.023+02:002014-09-01T23:16:54.023+02:00Okay, just ordered GW2 ^^
No seriously, I can thi...Okay, just ordered GW2 ^^<br /><br />No seriously, I can think of no worse Chatchannels as EVE help Channel. In the corps I have been in so far, everybody knew how to behave on TS when girls were present. It is just a matter of letting sexism happen. If the CEO, the directors and even the corpmates intervene directly the sexist dumbass is shamed and does not feel like in a circle of equals but like the lowest cum and loser.<br />Such things only escalate when tolerated.<br />But how exactly or what exactly has sexism and being a socially unskilled jerk have especially anything to do with EVE?<br />I would like to read more about interesting topics, S&M surround me in RL aplenty...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-44196364860868702182014-09-01T23:00:47.347+02:002014-09-01T23:00:47.347+02:00I dislike censorship. Direct harassment of an indi...I dislike censorship. Direct harassment of an individual is one thing, and ought to be sanctioned ruthlessly (here's looking at you, Mittens) but sterilising chat to that extent would bother me in principle. I'd rather have the occasional kid act like an idiot in chat than have to suffer the chilling effect of corporate Big Brother watching at all times.<br /><br />Apart from your usual asocial perspective (which is several deviations from the norm, itself) and unsavoury right-wing divagations ('some people are useless trash') this time you bring to the table a culturally parochial focus on sex talk. Certainly, 'lets rape those cunts' is undesirable in any language, but the boundaries of what is socially acceptable vary considerably between Southern and Eastern Europe, to say nothing of the puritannical anglos.Estebannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-34219376468057139962014-09-01T22:23:39.935+02:002014-09-01T22:23:39.935+02:00The most feminist thing you can say is "women...The most feminist thing you can say is "women are oppressed and kept unequal to men by a system of hegemonic masculinity, and kept in that place by role distribution, sexual violence and the existence of the patriarchal dividends." <br /><br />The core of feminist is the believe that in a fair society women would be seen as no different to (or for some fanatics even better than) men. <br /><br />If you say a woman has not the power to do as she says, you deny that women are to be taken seriously. <br /><br />And you also display Sexism against men as you marginalize 40% of domestic violence cases - the once by women against men. <br /><br />http://www.theguardian.com/society/2010/sep/05/men-victims-domestic-violence<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-37456920378803495552014-09-01T22:22:30.579+02:002014-09-01T22:22:30.579+02:00I have to say, one thing that's always annoyed...I have to say, one thing that's always annoyed me about Sarkeesian, is that she read too far into everything, then presents it as if the only reason for whatever feature she is attacking was only designed to be used against women. Such as the ability in sleeping dogs to knock someone unconscious and throw them in the trunk. The thing is, this isn't something targeted at women, and to be honest, I don't think it ever needs to be done to women, but does need to be done to men to progress the story. So her issue is what? That games don't give unnatural and divine protection to female characters?<br /><br />The other main issue is that she doesn't suggest a single solution. Basically if a game doesn't have a strong female lead and no female NPCs that can be in any way negatively interacted with or seen as decorative, then the game shouldn't exist.<br /><br />Even other feminists have criticised her heavily.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-8206054077387901952014-09-01T21:05:42.401+02:002014-09-01T21:05:42.401+02:00The reason there are so few girls in EVE is firstl...The reason there are so few girls in EVE is firstly because, girls first and for most(not all but most) are more attacted to casual games. This is why so many girls play, and Guildwar/Guildwars2. Like 40% of the people that play Guildwars2 currently are female, and this is because it's perhaps the most casual MMO ever made. WoW is another super casual MMO(like GW2) probably has/had a similar demographics of 30-40% female. Phanasystar Online is another hugly casual MMO that had large female demo.<br /><br />Now look at MMO's like Lineage2, or Aion, both of which sported a 5-10% female demographic. Difference is..... both these games don't pander to the casual gamer. There are of course hardcore female gamers, there are just far fewer then males, and even fewer that also just happen to be into MMO specifically, and fewer again that just happen to be into the sci-fi genre.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com