tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post8821609318193797384..comments2024-02-27T14:44:07.868+01:00Comments on Greedy goblin: My pricingGevlonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07072766785893313616noreply@blogger.comBlogger91125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-14133157178725067692009-11-26T01:10:42.892+01:002009-11-26T01:10:42.892+01:00I'm fairly new at this, but it's my unders...I'm fairly new at this, but it's my understanding that keeping glyphs at, say, 7.5g or less removes the motivation for undercutters over a long enough period of time. With all of the necessitated cancel/repost time, earnings fall to that of dailies/hr or less. At least that's what the author is claiming.<br /><br />So that's why 7.5g is the fallback, and not 10g or 20g or 49g99s...it's to demoralize the AQ2 bunch. I can imagine lots of scenarios where this wouldn't work, however, and potentially you could go weeks or months with minimal to no profit. <br /><br />It seems like a large part of what Gevlon is into is controlling the price range at minimum profits with the hope that this will drive off "the pros". He is still using undercut techniques, but just 'tempered' cuts so to speak, attempting to maintain profit or at the least cost while simultaneously demoralizing the competition. <br /><br />The big issue I see cropping up is that you'll probably have a LOT of stubborn AH campers who are willing to undercut your 7.5g, or 6g, or 4/5g prices and ride you ride up to cost, and as they are the ones with a high frequency of visits to the AH, they will be the ones making more sales because 99% of the time their goods will be of lower value.Ismarishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18369708234436526616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-74126683716389274322009-11-25T22:18:14.186+01:002009-11-25T22:18:14.186+01:00This comment has been removed by the author.Ismarishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18369708234436526616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-66621838112171550452009-11-10T16:18:35.818+01:002009-11-10T16:18:35.818+01:00If the glyphs go around 6G and I find the AH empty...<i> If the glyphs go around 6G and I find the AH empty or only 49.xx.yy glyphs, I'll post for 7.5G (6*1.25).<br /><br /> So unless I miss a patch note or some wannabe monopolist buys me out, you never ever sell any glyph for 50G. </i><br /><br />I am sorry, but am I stupid? I don't get it - why not? Why post it for 7.5G when you can post it for 10G, or 20G, or 50G?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-6158828396215847442009-11-02T18:44:01.451+01:002009-11-02T18:44:01.451+01:00http://www.newyorker.com/talk/financial/2009/11/09...http://www.newyorker.com/talk/financial/2009/11/09/091109ta_talk_surowiecki<br /><br />Price wars kill firms.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-81296053146005071492009-11-02T16:51:52.763+01:002009-11-02T16:51:52.763+01:00"Just proves the point, trying to explain mar..."Just proves the point, trying to explain market basics to M&S is a waste of time. I play multiple markets and will not waste a second longer in a single market "wishing" for that next big hit. Since supply is infinite, set price where demand is the highest based on averages not on "wishes". So Mr. Sock - That is the definition of market price - more markets and less micro-management = win."<br /><br />Setting prices based on "average" value reflects a fundamental misunderstanding of the glyph market. Specifically, the average auctioneer price <b>does not reflect true customer demand</b>. For example, you have popular in-demand glpyhs where the market is flooded due to leveling scribes so the Auctioneer price is low. You also have niche glyphs that rarely sell, but the auctioneer prices is (relatively) high because of the production cost.<br /><br />So what does the auctioneer reflect? I mentioned it earlier, it stabilizes to the prices people are willing to <b>sell</b> the glpyhs for, which is why it tends to be hover right around the production cost (for non-leveling glpyhs). Basing your price on this value is essentially equivalent to selling glpyhs at cost.<br /><br />But wait, that's not entirely true, as the standard "Gevlon strategy" includes a markup over this value. His is 25%, but no one (including Gevlon) has attempted to justify or optimize this value. Why not 20%? Or 35%? Or 500%? What is the logical process by which you pick this value? The answer of course is that the price ceiling should be what people are willing to pay (say 25g to be safe). Yet many insist on posting lower, even though it is simply throwing gold away.<br /><br />So let me offer a psychological theory on this - if people get undercut at 30g to 29g99g99c, they feel like chumps because some no-life loser is swooping down and taking your profits. However, if you get undercut from 7g to 6g99s99c, then you feel pretty good because some no-life loser is putting <b>so much effort</b> into getting your table scraps, so good for him.<br /><br />The fallacy here is that a smart under-cutter doesn't care who you are, and puts very very little effort into "micro-management" as you say - they wander by their keyboard every few hours and dramatically increase their overall profits (and yes, their gold/hour goes up as well).Ben Kennedyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02993765107497016319noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-30999289485897808922009-11-02T12:28:03.751+01:002009-11-02T12:28:03.751+01:00@Anti:
Sorry to be so late responding to your pro...@Anti:<br /><br />Sorry to be so late responding to your product feature-list backlog:<br /><br />I like the features you've defined, and for me, the top ones would be <br /><br />1. a modified QA-summary craft list that shows the median price as well as the current price of glyphs (or a modified LSW glyph list that also shows what glyphs I currently have on sale at what price, and if I'm the currently lowest buyout). I think this is the feature you defined as "crafting window compares cost with both median sales price and current price".<br /><br />2. "display median sales price (dont count unsold like Auctioneer)". I assume this is simply based of MY sales, as tracked by BeanCounter.<br /><br />With these two features in your first release, I'd be happy.Dàchénghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02994982502333811797noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-50909747811662183452009-11-02T09:20:58.770+01:002009-11-02T09:20:58.770+01:00Just proves the point, trying to explain market ba...Just proves the point, trying to explain market basics to M&S is a waste of time. I play multiple markets and will not waste a second longer in a single market "wishing" for that next big hit. Since supply is infinite, set price where demand is the highest based on averages not on "wishes". So Mr. Sock - That is the definition of market price - more markets and less micro-management = win.Gothnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-56734380956763121522009-11-02T03:13:16.327+01:002009-11-02T03:13:16.327+01:00In response to Goth:
Do any of you know the actua...In response to Goth:<br /><br /><b>Do any of you know the actual market price of the glyphs you sell or are you satisfied to ride on the back of your competitions fallback?</b><br /><br />The definition of the noun 'Market Price' is "the price at which a commodity, security, or service is selling in the open market."<br /><br />Therefore to answer you question - the market price of a glyph at any point of sale, is the price that person just paid.<br /><br />This varies at every sale of every glyph for whomever is the seller of the sale of that specific glyph.<br /><br />Hope that helps.<br /><br />If not I'm happy to return to explain using sock puppets.Breevokhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13007745955089390880noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-92100997786995273762009-11-02T03:00:50.063+01:002009-11-02T03:00:50.063+01:00"For somebody who only cares to collect unsol..."For somebody who only cares to collect unsold glyphs from the mailbox once every 2 days and replenish my glyph stock on the same schedule, do you see a better move?"<br /><br />If the camping competition is as aggressive as you say, you should either undercut the competition by 1 copper, or post every glpyh at a higher flat rate (say 20g) to catch any glpyhs the campers let fall through the cracks.<br /><br />A savvy camper will camp any profit-making glyph, so posting low just artificially lowers your profits when you actually make a sale.Ben Kennedyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02993765107497016319noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-26831925657231677252009-11-02T02:56:59.020+01:002009-11-02T02:56:59.020+01:00"this happens at all hours of the day. Since ..."this happens at all hours of the day. Since I cannot camp the AH every hour of the day, the only way I'll see any money is if I follow gevlon's deep undercutting strategy."<br /><br />Your strategy has a logical flaw - a smart camper will undercut you at 45g or 7g. Your glpyh will sell only if the camper either doesn't post or sells out. When that occurs, you return to the "next in line" position, and the higher you post the most gold you will see. Alternatively, if you want to drive out competition, just post every glyph at-cost (don't go lower or you will get bought out) ad make sure you keep the stock up. <br /><br />I maintain that if you are trying to both drive out competition and make gold at the same time, you will fail at both.Ben Kennedyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02993765107497016319noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-41496431639313375612009-11-02T02:52:27.680+01:002009-11-02T02:52:27.680+01:00@Iiene of Kul Tiras
I'm sitting on an invento...@Iiene of Kul Tiras<br /><br />I'm sitting on an inventory of 10 of every glyph I can craft, with enough inks of the sea to replenish this entire stock should I sell out. I've got about enough herbs in the bank to replenish half of that stock that I just haven't got around to milling yet.<br /><br />I was an AH camper at some point. Catching the fallback sales as I mercilessly undercut the competition the moment they logged off was satisfying, but I no longer wish to play the AH PvP and spend every moment I am in-game undercutting them. Just the time i'd have to spend retrieving the glyphs from the mailbox would trash my gold per hour.<br /><br />Through my accounting, I have determined that the glyphs themselves have already been paid for. Any money I make from them can cover the costs of the inks that have yet to be crafted, and any sale I make on snowfall inks will bring me into the green.<br /><br />I cannot hope to play AH camper with 3 different people who are all available to undercut at all hours of the day. With any sale being a profit (only costing me time to craft the glyph), the best move I see that I can make is to set my threshold way down, be satisfied with "only" a 50-100% profit per glyph and deeply undercut the competition.<br /><br />For somebody who only cares to collect unsold glyphs from the mailbox once every 2 days and replenish my glyph stock on the same schedule, do you see a better move? Or are you just mad that somebody is "destroying" a market?<br /><br />The only other move I can see myself making is dumping all of my stock and leaving the market, which would be more devestating. With no more threshold to be had, I would have to get rid of 2700 glyphs, 1800 inks of the sea, and about 90 stacks of herbs, with one thought in mind: get rid of it all and cut my losses.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-79859143537817185172009-11-02T02:14:15.108+01:002009-11-02T02:14:15.108+01:00Last Anonymous:
Or! You could pull your head out ...Last Anonymous:<br /><br />Or! You could pull your head out of your ass and realize that you're too stupid to compete in the new world order.<br /><br />But that won't happen, so your choice is to destroy the market.<br /><br />Congratulations! You've just demonstrated why unregulated markets can never work.<br /><br />Libertarians everywhere! School up! UNREGULATED MARKETS DO NOT WORK.Iiene of Kul Tirashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13427908681308163728noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-47392282618980417582009-11-02T01:24:57.681+01:002009-11-02T01:24:57.681+01:00"The only reason is to manipulate the market ..."The only reason is to manipulate the market price to chase people away, so it just becomes a contest of wills. But even if this is your goal, then you should just flood the market at a flat rate - again, the market average price is irrelevant. Either price to drive people away (post low and flat), or price to optimize profits (undercut up to 45g or whatever people tolerate). Just don't try to do both at the same time!"<br /><br />In my market, there are 3 AH campers using QA2 in a desperate attempt to keep glyph prices high. I can set a high fallback with a low undercut, but the moment I post my glyphs they are undercut and they are the lowest again at whatever high price the glyph is now (40g or so)<br /><br />this happens at all hours of the day. Since I cannot camp the AH every hour of the day, the only way I'll see any money is if I follow gevlon's deep undercutting strategy. Post anything I can at a low price, and the market becomes more favorable for me.<br /><br />They will either follow me to the bottom of the market (destroying their "make a wish" level profits) or attempt to monopolize the market and buy out my glyphs. I'm fairly certain I can craft faster than they can buy me out and list high again, and i'm sitting on enough inks to not have to buy any expensive herbs on account of the faire. Plus with my low prices, less people will be inclined to try and join the market. With one move, I have devastated the competition and reduced or eliminated the flow of new competitors, without destroying my gold per hour.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-29932057541973315132009-11-01T17:15:55.995+01:002009-11-01T17:15:55.995+01:00The more I read these comments, the more I'm c...The more I read these comments, the more I'm convinced that a lot of people simply cannot wrap their brain around the glyph valuation and selling paradigm.<br /><br />They think each item must be categorized, priced, and placed on a shelf like... well, like a bottle of shampoo. As if someone will go to the store and exclaim "What! 60 bucks! No way!"<br /><br />Glyphs are like a roulette table with 341 bet spots. Some of the bet spots are unusable at any one time because they're 'under threshold' for whatever reason. The rest are being 'reverse auctioned' from the most recent fallback to your threshold.<br /><br />When a buyer steps up, he spins the wheel and buys that glyph (Well, he buys the glyph he wants, the wheel is a metaphor for the single file line of buyers.) The buyer then buys the glyph at the current reverse auction price.<br /><br />This metaphor works the same whether you're an undercutter or a fixed price player (Like Gevlon) The difference is, when you jump the shark and lowball the reverse auction, you just force the other players to play under you.Iiene of Kul Tirashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13427908681308163728noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-64609617569048010052009-11-01T13:57:00.160+01:002009-11-01T13:57:00.160+01:00"Do any of you know the actual market price o..."Do any of you know the actual market price of the glyphs you sell or are you satisfied to ride on the back of your competitions fallback?"<br /><br />You set <b>your</b> own fallback based on what you think people are willing to pay on your server - in my case around 45g. This isn't "wishing" for more gold, it's objective fact.<br /><br />"P.S. You are are not a Pro anything you are a moron that bases his pricing off of his competitions greed."<br /><br />This is the "Gevlon strategy" as well. The only difference is he underprices glyphs when he doesn't have to.Ben Kennedyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02993765107497016319noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-52198428085463423302009-11-01T09:47:01.056+01:002009-11-01T09:47:01.056+01:00@QA users
Do any of you know the actual market pr...@QA users<br /><br />Do any of you know the actual market price of the glyphs you sell or are you satisfied to ride on the back of your competitions fallback? The weird warble of the median price (quoted from a QA user) is directly related to the Addon that you are using. <br /><br />Moron make a Wish Foundation. <br />-Moron #1 wishes for 90 gold glyphs<br />-Moron #2 wishes for 80 gold glyphs<br />-Moron #3 ....<br /><br />Been like this since the mod came out. Faster is not always better.<br /><br />P.S. You are are not a Pro anything you are a moron that bases his pricing off of his competitions greed.Gothnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-53749799614208538122009-11-01T02:51:13.518+01:002009-11-01T02:51:13.518+01:00"Why go out of your way to sell them for less..."Why go out of your way to sell them for less than the market will bear?"<br /><br />The only reason is to manipulate the market price to chase people away, so it just becomes a contest of wills. But even if this is your goal, then you should just flood the market at a flat rate - again, the market average price is irrelevant. Either price to drive people away (post low and flat), or price to optimize profits (undercut up to 45g or whatever people tolerate). Just don't try to do both at the same time!Ben Kennedyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02993765107497016319noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-6252701403162137522009-11-01T02:12:51.065+01:002009-11-01T02:12:51.065+01:00"There is no such thing as a "worthless&..."There is no such thing as a "worthless" glyph."<br /><br />This is absolutely correct.<br /><br />Many times I've profited heavily from so called 'leveling glyphs' with a 'market value' of 10 silvers.<br /><br />Hell, if there was a glyph called "Glyph of Uselessness", and it's text was "No, really! It's useless" I would still stock that glyph.<br /><br />You 'set price' guys just don't get it. You're not selling bottles of shampoo here. You're selling a specific, exact item, with a very high value to a very small number of people. Those people will pay whatever you ask because, even at 60 gold, it's CHEAP.<br /><br />There are 341 of these items, and you cannot guess which one will be today's duck. 'conventional wisdom' like "The lower the price, the more you sell" just don't apply.<br /><br />Let's think about this. What are glyphs competing with? Epic gems at 150 gold a pop. Enchants at 100 to 500 gold a pop. Repairs at 40 gold a raid. Consumables.<br /><br />60 gold for the exact glyph you need out of 341 is CHEAP!<br /><br />Why go out of your way to sell them for less than the market will bear?<br /><br />Think outside the box, people!Iiene of Kul Tirashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13427908681308163728noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-70771894514804913482009-11-01T01:41:52.729+01:002009-11-01T01:41:52.729+01:00"This is a market trend Auctioneer would catc..."This is a market trend Auctioneer would catch and still consider the glyphs worthless, but QA2 would happily tell you that they sell for 50g, as all it has is a current snapshot."<br /><br />There is no such thing as a "worthless" glyph. If a glpyh is sold out, people will pay for it regardless if whether it was trained, researched, or came from a book. I've sold plenty of 10 silver leveling glpyhs at 45 gold because the AH happened to be sold out. The worst case scenario is you keep the glpyh in stock until AH stock drops again.<br /><br />Put differently, if you manage your inventory and posting values properly, <b>every single type of glpyh</b> in the game has potential to generate profit - that's why I find the "market" value from auctioneer to be dubiously useful. Because a sold out glyph type means that you don't have one in your inventory or on the AH, then you should be crafting one.Ben Kennedyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02993765107497016319noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-56575233123773071012009-11-01T01:10:25.551+01:002009-11-01T01:10:25.551+01:00"With QA2, you can quickly get a summary of a..."With QA2, you can quickly get a summary of all current glyph prices, and single-click to add them to a queue. Bad glyphs and glpyhs that are flooded because they are used for leveling will always have low prices, so you will never bother to make them. QA2's summary tool is easily the best way to select glyphs for crafting - takes about two minutes to get a list of all glyphs that are currently sold out or have a minimum price under a certain value (and how many you personally have posted as well, and if you are being undercut)"<br /><br />This isn't necessarily true on my server. Strong competition that's willing to work for zero profits have significantly reduced the number of people willing to level inscription (and thus, sell leveling glyphs). They haven't all gone away of course (some are ignorant to the market and it's condition), but it leaves wide enough gaps to the point where every other day or so it is possible to unload your leveling glyphs. <br /><br />This is a market trend Auctioneer would catch and still consider the glyphs worthless, but QA2 would happily tell you that they sell for 50g, as all it has is a current snapshot.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-45144347860994529902009-11-01T01:03:52.463+01:002009-11-01T01:03:52.463+01:00"However, to use QA2 effectively, your only o..."However, to use QA2 effectively, your only option is to post every glyph you can craft and hope for the best. For somebody who is just entering the market and still has to drop a few thousand gold on all of the glyph books, this is very, very expensive."<br /><br />With QA2, you can quickly get a summary of all current glyph prices, and single-click to add them to a queue. Bad glyphs and glpyhs that are flooded because they are used for leveling will always have low prices, so you will never bother to make them. QA2's summary tool is easily the best way to select glyphs for crafting - takes about two minutes to get a list of all glyphs that are currently sold out or have a minimum price under a certain value (and how many you personally have posted as well, and if you are being undercut)Ben Kennedyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02993765107497016319noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-60901553787884772952009-11-01T00:30:01.067+01:002009-11-01T00:30:01.067+01:00One key factor in Auctioneer vs QA2 is startup cos...One key factor in Auctioneer vs QA2 is startup costs.<br /><br />Auctioneer keeps an average value figure for every glyph on the market, and the method of crafting/restocking that Gevlon uses insures that he is only crafting glyphs that are likely to sell (ie: no money is wasted on poorly selling double ink glyphs, or single ink glyphs that are always going to be listed below cost by ppl leveling inscription)<br /><br />However, to use QA2 effectively, your only option is to post every glyph you can craft and hope for the best. For somebody who is just entering the market and still has to drop a few thousand gold on all of the glyph books, this is very, very expensive. The amount of profit you can make from a single sale is huge, but it doesn't mean anything until you have the cash flow to afford to keep up with constantly buying glyph books and stacks of herbs to restock your sold glyphs.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-89257392257117856282009-11-01T00:09:34.624+01:002009-11-01T00:09:34.624+01:00"I see that now too - though I'm torn as ..."I see that now too - though I'm torn as to whether I'd like to see if post at the threshold or the fallback"<br /><br />It would be awesome if there was a seperate value for that function. I feel that my fallback is a little high and my threshold is a little low for posting glyphs that I can't undercut.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-75476554344625170312009-10-31T21:15:48.709+01:002009-10-31T21:15:48.709+01:00"@last anon. Update QA2. Latest release has t..."@last anon. Update QA2. Latest release has the option to fallback if current low price is below your threshold."<br /><br />I see that now too - though I'm torn as to whether I'd like to see if post at the threshold or the fallbackBen Kennedyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02993765107497016319noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-11713930280831794612009-10-31T18:07:39.335+01:002009-10-31T18:07:39.335+01:00IS there a way to set up a maximum number of aucti...IS there a way to set up a maximum number of auctions in Auctioneer like in QA2?Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05206898757360923068noreply@blogger.com