tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post8451367484299056400..comments2024-02-27T14:44:07.868+01:00Comments on Greedy goblin: Goons laugh off losses (or not)Gevlonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07072766785893313616noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-60569072620976380722014-06-17T15:46:30.263+02:002014-06-17T15:46:30.263+02:00> SRP doesn't cover ganks, which is most of...> SRP doesn't cover ganks, which is most of the CFC losses.<br /><br />Goons also tell their members, "Don't go to highsec." Everything they need can be obtained in null, provided at good prices from the traders that stock their markets.<br /><br />The Goons that are getting ganked in high sec are the dumb ones. They're the gazelle that decided to go drink from that stream instead of the pool where the rest of the herd is drinking. That they get ganked and quit Goons and/or EVE is not a great loss to the collective. In many ways, their loss strengthens the group.<br /><br />Actual Goon commerce consists of an enormously-stocked alliance fund, and anonymous alt traders that are whitelisted so as to be able to safely jump freighter in and out. The blinged ratters that get blown up are doing so because they can, and they're not hurting because of it. The average line goon might be cash poor, but has access to a full line of doctrine fitted ships that they don't have to pay for, and reap the benefits of.<br /><br />Furthermore, "dewhoring" logistics and bubblers just proves your elementary understanding of the modern EVE combat environment. Many, many, many doctrines are constructed such that they do not operate in a vaccuum, but rather have logibro support. By separating "tank" and "DPS" onto different hulls, both can be better at their jobs given the modern combat environment; local tanks are no longer required for many doctrines. By your flawed methodology, they're not only worthless, but decrease the efficacy of modern doctrines, as well.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-47959813276058338392014-06-17T15:35:43.987+02:002014-06-17T15:35:43.987+02:00Part of the issue us that you are assuming a flat,...Part of the issue us that you are assuming a flat, static role for all. In other words, no growth or change in skill points or training plan.<br /><br />I start the year as a basic BS pilot. I have t1 large weapons and basic fitting skills. As the year progresses, I may enjoy my role and improve to T2 guns. Such a person's activity by your metrics would stay about the same. <br /><br />On the other hand, say I hate being part of the F1 blob and instead want to find a specialist role that I can enjoy. I could become a logi pilot, tackle (HIC, DIC, or intercepter), or ewar. In all cases, though I am of great value to the fleet, my dps contribution will drop considerably. <br /><br />Yet there is no path save for carrier or dread where my DPS will increase significantly to be visible in your chart. And carrier or dread contributions are limited by capital deployment doctrine, meaning even if I do train into dread, I might not fly it on every op, where as logi, tackle, and ewar, i can.<br /><br />So how do you account for this in your metrics, especially since you can count for loss of activity, but since you limit to a defined set of pilots, you don't open room for replacements when a pilot changes roles?<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-33587466632644038852014-06-17T14:22:27.732+02:002014-06-17T14:22:27.732+02:00And? They're somehow not important in the flee...And? They're somehow not important in the fleet, their presence/lack of it is irrelevant?<br /><br />You're either sampling the wrong goons, or misinterpreting your outcome. From dealing with them, those who rat in ships that are very blingy can replace them and laugh it off when they lose them.<br /><br />Others don't rat in blingy ships, just use disposable ishtars.EXE Gruntnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-23200009720658958972014-06-17T14:12:47.514+02:002014-06-17T14:12:47.514+02:00Logistics and interdictors doesn't get kills i...Logistics and interdictors doesn't get kills in the first half of the year either, so they don't even get into the dataset.<br /><br />SRP doesn't cover ganks, which is most of the CFC losses.<br /><br />Overall drops are filtered out, as correlation sees deviation from the average. Gevlonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07072766785893313616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-16501878790132319782014-06-17T14:09:07.991+02:002014-06-17T14:09:07.991+02:00You can do better than that. You are forgetting im...You can do better than that. You are forgetting important factors.<br /><br />First of all, when "de-whoring" kills you count only DPS ships. Logistics tend to not even get on killmails, neither do interdictors or heavy interdictors (even when the enemy aggresses you by trying to warp out of the bubble, you get 0 damage dealt. So de-whored, you didn't do any damage to the target.)<br /><br />Second of all, goons have good SRP. Expensive losses in battle don't generally affect them, since they get 100% reimbursement (and 200% in some cases, I believe. Yes, they're paid to get blown up.)<br /><br />The "second half of the year" drop in activity is very easy to explain: summer. Summer always brings with itself low numbers. On top of that, the winter war in 2013 was a painful sov grind that burned out a lot of people - so here's another reason numbers were low for not just GSF, but CFC whole.<br /><br />EXE Gruntnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-16321959695478885192014-06-17T11:28:30.463+02:002014-06-17T11:28:30.463+02:00Although I appreciate the work you put into all th...Although I appreciate the work you put into all the data processing, I really wonder how much impact your ranting about goons has.<br />True, you were unsatisfied with the speed of growth of your little lemmings project, understandable, but with only 30-40k people playing eve (worldwide!!!!!!!), every single RL member of your corp is as precious as can be.<br /><br />Anyway, your position is quite understandable for me as well as the tears of goon-related people trying to drown your rants with their tears and their we don't care propaganda.<br />I am almost convinced that some goon players were impacted by your campaign.<br />In fact, you are metagaming right now, against goons. <br />Expensive losses always "hurt" one way or other, even if one is trying to laugh away losses, it still is a forced laugh...<br />They have in impact on "fun"!!!<br />SO!!!!<br />What I would be interested in most is the followong information:<br />Do goons lose members? Are less goon players logging in? Will that impact future fleets, like when people who could fly titans do not log on when desperately needed?<br />You already shwoed that there is a correlation between suffering losses and playing less afterwards...<br />Is there already a trend showing?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com