tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post7999947561721708285..comments2024-02-27T14:44:07.868+01:00Comments on Greedy goblin: PVE games, PvP games, griefers and highsec killsGevlonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07072766785893313616noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-11332953823859977372012-09-13T06:30:58.559+02:002012-09-13T06:30:58.559+02:00Your distinction between PvP (hurting others to ge...Your distinction between PvP (hurting others to get an in-game benefit) and griefing (hurting others for the lolz) is one that makes sense to me.<br /><br />However, while in some games you can't really PvP in all games you can grief. Just because in PvP games griefing makes you lose doesn't distinguish that from griefing in PvE games. If you act out of spite in Diplomacy you'll lose (no advance in the ranking ladder) and if you sit on the mail box with your mammoth you lose (no content completed). Same difference.Boshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06908715118408289864noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-43158045641096936202012-09-12T18:10:05.215+02:002012-09-12T18:10:05.215+02:00@Barnet: these are all examples to grief teammates...@Barnet: these are all examples to grief teammates. It can be avoided by bringing your own team. In random teams griefers are the smaller problems. M&S are.<br /><br />@Debra: you can't beat a master player unless you are one. One thing of PvP is better wins.<br /><br />@Gnome: but at least the griefer loses too and he is viewed as "loser idiot". He can't get away with "lol I play for fun" as at the end he is defeated by one of the players, get a "you have lost" sign.Gevlonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07072766785893313616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-3978514884688725072012-09-12T16:04:22.439+02:002012-09-12T16:04:22.439+02:00the point about PvP games involving griefing when ...the point about PvP games involving griefing when more than 1v1 is accurate though.<br /><br />Playing any kind of team or multiplayer game, it is quite possible for individuals to bring desires to the game which have nothing to do with winning, and which can involve griefing other players.<br /><br />Think of any multiplayer board game, like civilization, diplomacy, risk, monopoly, etc. I have seen players who will give away the game just to mess with someone else, and not necessarily as punishment of a defector, but just because they don't like the person, or it amuses them. For instance in diplomacy, issuing an all out attack against one other player right in the beginning of the game. it effectively guaranteed a loss for the player performing the action, but did the same for the player being attacked randomly, and there was nothing the attacked player could do about it.<br /><br />It's exactly the same as griefing in a PvE game, even though every single player in the game is a real opponent, playing against the others, and under the same rules/restrictions.gnome of zurichnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-16167654466369078172012-09-12T14:36:37.265+02:002012-09-12T14:36:37.265+02:00Gevlon said: "In PvP games, the goal is to de...Gevlon said: "In PvP games, the goal is to defeat the other player, to destroy his ingame assets..."<br /><br />Not true. My son used to play some FPS (CS?) purely for the griefing. <br /><br />Some of his tactics:<br /><br />* with friendly fire on, shoot a team mate in the foot until they retaliated, killed him and the team mate were kicked off the server;<br /><br />* deliberately lose battles to annoy his team;<br /><br />* when playing with his friend, the two of them would block narrow passages from the spawn to the battlefield to stop his team from the playing the game.<br /><br /><br />He "won" if his targets left the game or if he was kicked from the server. He was proud of the number of servers on which he had been banned.Barnetnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-62640924890884765732012-09-12T13:49:14.064+02:002012-09-12T13:49:14.064+02:00Have you ever play chess on internet ? Well there ...Have you ever play chess on internet ? Well there are players that either chain lose to score easy and 'fun' win or players that just use Fritz to play the game... How is that not griefing ? Same in starcraft where people are abusing the rating system to play against lesser opponents. Not to mention players that will refuse to quit the game in Starcraft.<br /><br />Sure you can win in both cases but it' not a realistic approach of the problem. To be even against a chess program you have to dedicate your life to it, to beat a master player in starcraft you have to spend hundreds of hours playing it. It's not an easy thing to do, it's not 'oh i guess i will just make two runs with my freighter then'.Debra Taonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-9305989410044224462012-09-12T12:21:17.313+02:002012-09-12T12:21:17.313+02:00Yes, I know about "campers" in CS, howev...Yes, I know about "campers" in CS, however it's a legitimate playstyle and above all, can lead to win. If you lose temper and rush the positioned sniper, he wins, you lose. While you ASSUME that he camps to annoy you, he might do it clearly to win. Same thing for playing chess defensively.<br /><br />But the main point is that by playing better, you can finally defeat him, you won, and he lost so at the end, he was griefed. You can't do it in a PvE game. There is absolutely nothing you can do with arthasdklol standing on the postbox.Gevlonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07072766785893313616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-3776488569259710362012-09-12T11:12:16.369+02:002012-09-12T11:12:16.369+02:00Your argument only makes sense in 1v1 PvP games. A...Your argument only makes sense in 1v1 PvP games. And even then it doesn't pass.<br /><br />In team-based games, you absolutely can have personal rivalries that you pursue to the detriment of both teams. In the Counter-Strike, you can have someone who exclusively tries to hunt down that one sniper who pissed him off every match. Trash talking on the Football field leads to questionable plays and penalties.<br /><br />More to the point, you are attempting to define "play to win" as being a part of the fundamental rules. It's not, and never has been. The rules tell you <i>how</i> one can play, but not <i>why</i>. <br /><br />A Griefer, almost by definition, is someone playing for a different <i>reason</i> (or by different rules) than you. A Chess griefer can be someone who plays "legitimately" but does so in a way to maximize the annoyance he/she causes. Playing extremely slowly, for example. Or toying with you, or dragging the game out, or whatever else. Not to mention what can happen when you aren't playing Chess in tournaments with timers and judges and ELO scores.<br /><br />I mean... no griefing in PvP games? Have you ever played Monopoly? Christ, I have <i>lost friends</i> over that board game.Azurielhttp://inanage.comnoreply@blogger.com