tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post6916460854087954277..comments2024-02-27T14:44:07.868+01:00Comments on Greedy goblin: CCP Falcon knocks Gevlon outGevlonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07072766785893313616noreply@blogger.comBlogger24125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-86799090590313632012015-08-12T03:53:14.576+02:002015-08-12T03:53:14.576+02:00I believe CCP Falcon overstepped his neutrality re...I believe CCP Falcon overstepped his neutrality requirements in the comments he made. Even if I do not agree with everything you say, it is not fair for a CCP employee to treat one of their content provider for their game this way. Unlike many others, you are putting your (in-game) money where your (in-game) mouth is., and going against the strongest propaganda machine in New Eden. You do not need the extra burden created by someone who above everyone else should remain absolutely neutral in these matters, and take upon himself to avoid letting personal judgement and possible established friendships affect his position's required neutrality.<br />I have a lot of respect for CCP Falcon, as he is a good community manager, but In this case, I am disappointed. <br />Keep up the (in-game) good fight...Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15273751173628043890noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-15386011890271929192015-08-11T21:50:29.585+02:002015-08-11T21:50:29.585+02:00@Gevlon
Funny thing about weapons based on sociali...@Gevlon<br />Funny thing about weapons based on sociality is that their effect diminishes with number of uses and over time. Sticks and stones consistently break bones, but words have less and less impact the more you hear them - both positive and negative. This is rooted in human neuropsysiology. Literally tied to functioning of serotonin inhibition in our brain.<br /><br />If MoA continue to kill the same amount of ISK they do now, they will keep doing the same amount of ISK damage. Invoking "CCP Falcon is on our side" will be able to somewhat compensate for this damage the first few times it is used, but - provided the reality will remain that CCP Falcon is unable to stop MoA from doing the same amount of damage over and over again, - then the "CCP Falcon is on our side" infoweapon will simply wear out. <br /><br />I have to say, though, that it is only now that you have entered the hard part of taking down the Imperium. This kind of information-war standoff can last for months or years, which is pretty short timeframe for RL-politic issues (where stuff can drag on for decades and occasionally centuries), but is a mammoth of a time for a game.<br /><br />Well, whether you'll be able to weather it will - at the very least - define what i end up thinking of your whole "asocial powa" doctrine. So far, it has failed to impress, so i won't be really surprised if you call it quits at this junction.<br /><br />P.S: All of this applies, of course, only if CCP is actually not actively helping the goons. You might want to think of a way to verify that. If they are actually helping the goons, then it may really be time to change games.maximhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12576542229498004147noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-20974025124416501022015-08-11T14:40:05.369+02:002015-08-11T14:40:05.369+02:00As I was reading the SoTA, something about it seem...As I was reading the SoTA, something about it seemed very familiar. It took me a while to remember, but finally it clicked. Mohammed Saeed al-Sahhaf lives!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-80537565674568564932015-08-11T14:17:12.860+02:002015-08-11T14:17:12.860+02:00@Raphael: they could issue a "soft boycott&qu...@Raphael: they could issue a "soft boycott" on them, meaning devs formally answer their interviews but only with corporate bullshit and never show up on their shows. They can't use that, after all devs aren't needed to contribute to third party sites.<br /><br />@Endie: Yes, they don't count, since the big war will never come. You can't sell "big war" even to your own drones anymore, after a year of no war and then abandoning regions without a fight. Who count? <br />- those who rat enough to raise indices and pay tax<br />- those who are in home defense fleets or fight MoA independently<br /><br />Jesus, you wrote this yourself or just copy-pasted some propaganda material?!Gevlonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07072766785893313616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-19445741178659937082015-08-11T13:55:35.192+02:002015-08-11T13:55:35.192+02:00You reckon having all those backwoodsmen who only ...You reckon having all those backwoodsmen who only turn up for the big fight in the big war doesn't count? Tell that to the next bunch of people we drop the better part of a thousand tengus/ishtars/domis/megas on, with a couple of fleets of caps and supers waiting in the wings and miscellaneous harpy/fyf support fleets.<br /><br />Look at the stats on eve-offline for tranquility: numbers are down to January 2007 levels. And yet people increasingly flock to the Imperium. Not a huge sign of existential crisis there!<br /><br />It is inconceivable that Goons should painfully exist on a soil too narrow for them, while amorphous masses, which contribute nothing to Eve, occupy infinite tracts of a region that is one of the richest in the game. We must create conditions for our people that favour their multiplication, and we must at the same time build a dike against the pubbie flood. Since there is no natural protection against such a flood, we must meet it with a living wall. A permanent war on the western front will help form a sound race of PvPers, and will prevent us from relapsing into the softness of an alliance thrown back upon itself. It should be possible for us to control this region to the west with twenty-five thousand goons plus a cadre of good administrators... This space in Eve must always be dominated by Goons.Endiehttp://endie.netnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-85801426333850164782015-08-11T13:19:37.314+02:002015-08-11T13:19:37.314+02:00@Gevlon: CCP can try to limit their propaganda val...@Gevlon: CCP can try to <i>limit</i> their propaganda value, yes - and they probably should. Making themselves completely <i>useless</i> for propaganda is impossible, though, at least for a sufficiently skilled propagandist. There's always <i>something</i> that can be twisted to imply whatever-it-is that needs to be implied to serve your goals.<br /><br />The ROC shares thing was actual, mechanical fraud - falsely creating in-game 'proof' of CCP support. That's easy to drop the hammer on, and doesn't create any tricky precedents.<br /><br />Calling 'TOC violation' on out-of-game statements that <i>imply</i> CCP support - without ever making an explicit statement - starts putting them in more questionable territory. Do they ban everybody who does it, or just Goons?<br /><br />The latter is blatant discrimination, and obviously untenable. Given how frequently 'you're biased for/against Goons/gankers/industrialists/hisec/lowsec/nullsec' (delete as necessary) gets thrown around, punishing <i>everyone</i> would require banning half the forums after every new set of patch notes - probably not good for their subscriber numbers. (And the problem with punishing people 'if someone submits a ticket' becomes apparent as soon as you substitute 'a Goon' for 'someone'...)<br /><br />I haven't seen the NDA that Sion signed, so I can't say whether CCP could have stopped the follow-up post based on that. They could <i>theoretically</i> have boycotted TMC for the first post - but I find it imagine a bigger stick they could hand TMC to beat them with. "CCP is trying to bully us into silence because we DARED to point out that they made a mistake" would make a wonderful way for TMC to drum up attention.<br /><br />So far as I can tell, nothing that the Goons have said is actually a lie, and nothing ever actually claims that Falcon or CCP in general have done anything unfair or unethical. (On the contrary, they've gone out of their way to indicate that CCP had good, valid reasons for everything they did.)<br /><br />The obvious conclusion - to me, at least - is that as long as you don't lie about CCP's actions, and don't accuse them of wrongdoing, you can spin the story as much as you like and it's considered 'valid metagaming'.Raphaelnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-33546756901731291812015-08-11T13:05:14.344+02:002015-08-11T13:05:14.344+02:00I'm sorry for being unclear. I file "doin...I'm sorry for being unclear. I file "doing nothing logs in to chat" as inactive. You know that 1.5% of the pilots did 50% of the kills in 2014 and like 10% did 90%. The rest, while formally not inactive can be counted as. I have no data, but pretty sure PvE looks the same.<br /><br />Remember that HERO with all their 10+K members were just farm for 1K PL.Gevlonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07072766785893313616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-58930088927945146872015-08-11T12:31:55.586+02:002015-08-11T12:31:55.586+02:00"member graphs are trivial to inflate with ra..."member graphs are trivial to inflate with randoms who don't fit, will go inactive or leave."<br /><br />true, but they get purged. it can be detected via API which everyone has to give and PAP stats.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-55622118424448572422015-08-11T12:30:11.985+02:002015-08-11T12:30:11.985+02:00Now now Endie, people promised to attack you with ...Now now Endie, people promised to attack you with whatever means at their disposal. 'Trolling' interceptors are still an attack. One with a strong morale effect, apparently.<br /><br />One might ask questions of how many people join and go inactive when they face a lack of content (or willingness to fight). We brought a Vexor fleet all the way to YA0 station last night, and I'm almost sure that if it hadn't been for a strat op, we would've SD'd our ships on the undock.<br /><br />DT 2015, bringing PvP back to Deklein. If you want more, you could send us some ISK as an incentive.<br /><br />Rumour is that SMA tried to form for us, but 30 guys in Vexors was apparently too many.<br /><br />Perhaps we should've entosis linked your stuff to force you to fight? It doesn't seem very sporting, but Dull-sec seems to do that to people.<br /><br />Anyway, we killed a Legion and a Celestis, so we're gonna be space relevant on the null-sec war updates. You should thank us for confirming WI.'s quality hasn't improved. :P<br /><br />Rob K.<br />Rob Kaichinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17972854173258346444noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-63337301348874594922015-08-11T11:56:29.982+02:002015-08-11T11:56:29.982+02:00@Endie: I'll believe the ratting and the killb...@Endie: I'll believe the ratting and the killboard graphs, member graphs are trivial to inflate with randoms who don't fit, will go inactive or leave.Gevlonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07072766785893313616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-47180013587160199612015-08-11T11:38:32.699+02:002015-08-11T11:38:32.699+02:00Gevlon, it isn't like you to ignore the availa...Gevlon, it isn't like you to ignore the availability of evidence from graphs and tables. Look at dotlan (there is a very obvious indicator for Section 8 corps) and you'll see <br /><br />Secondly, your differentiation between renters/ratters and PvPers is fallacious. In Fozziesov active ratters are a huge defence, as we have demonstrated (we were promised attacks from all sides... fizzle). We have attracted hundreds of new PvPers in recent weeks, undaunted by the obvious doom you talk about MoA having inflicted on us: just check dotlan to see our additions like Zebra and UK Corp, who alone bring 500 new members between them. Then check the organic growth over the same period from corps like Goonwaffe. All of this in a period when Karmafleet has purged 1200 inactives! It's an incredibly strong story of growth.<br /><br />And yes, we have added many Section 8 corps, and will add more, I hope. Attackers don't like high entosis multipliers, while new members are attracted by the fact that our space is more secure than it has ever been.Endiehttp://endie.netnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-68727431889615417052015-08-11T11:25:14.507+02:002015-08-11T11:25:14.507+02:00@Nightgerbil: yes, I always seen that CCP consider...@Nightgerbil: yes, I always seen that CCP considers tear farming a more valid gameplay than other ways. However I also believe that logical, focused play is always more effective than "let's get drunk and make some shit for lolz"Gevlonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07072766785893313616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-89856284161977429852015-08-11T11:10:34.827+02:002015-08-11T11:10:34.827+02:00Without wanting to trivialize what your saying, I ...Without wanting to trivialize what your saying, I can't help but link this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfWlot6h_JM&list=PL1CbxROoA2JhEPbNB8pYkpChNelMkjVve<br />I think its a good motto for you. I don't think you can change whats happening to eve, but I think your missing a wider picture, a war going on inside CCP for hearts and minds. Look at what ripard treg was trying to achieve, consider that CCP own stats show 90% of paying players try to level up a raven before they quit.<br /><br /> Only 10% of the players who come "get" that this is a pure blood pvp game where we piss on our enemies corpses and laugh at the lamentation of their women. The rest think its a spaceship game. the 90% are wrong though and we have numerous dev posts to prove it.<br /><br /> Will you consider that you might, actually, (and I mean this all due respect) be playing the wrong game?nightgerbilhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11555431875907240808noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-44096385556037864372015-08-11T10:04:44.159+02:002015-08-11T10:04:44.159+02:00@Endie: your growth is from renters. Sure it incre...@Endie: your growth is from renters. Sure it increases your wallet (it would be stupid for me to ignore that), but their PvP contribution is "making anyone roaming here happy and come back for more".<br /><br />I also love your "when we do it right, WE did it right, when we do it wrong, some dumb individual did it wrong" philosophy.Gevlonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07072766785893313616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-26981264789159726902015-08-11T09:46:42.716+02:002015-08-11T09:46:42.716+02:00Gevlon you are logical objectivist. Sure it is wi...Gevlon you are logical objectivist. Sure it is within your comprehension that with around ten thousand humans in the alliance, the fact that Reagalan got all worked up and said some dumb stuff does not make it official policy? If you're not aware of that, then you probably know that I *do* have a bit more authority there, and I can tell you he was wrong.<br /><br />"Fozziesov was introduced against the will of Goons, forcing them to abandon regions." We advocated strongly for occupancy sov reform and while we think that there are further changes that are necessary, the basic concepts are sound and are an improvement on Dominion. And it has made our core sov more, not less, secure: sure when we did a sov swap in a peripheral region we lost a TCU (which I am sure you know has no actual effect on system usage: if MoA were able to use the space they would be increasing our indices on the iHub). That sort of thing will happen in a new system as we work out what to do.<br /><br />As for your idea that that borked transfer drove people away? Well, just look at the numbers. We've actually entered a period of unusually strong growth: http://evemaps.dotlan.net/alliance/Goonswarm_FederationEndiehttp://endie.netnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-59913047313643651802015-08-11T09:20:48.015+02:002015-08-11T09:20:48.015+02:00Being part of MoA, business is as usual on a daily...Being part of MoA, business is as usual on a daily basis. We encounter ratting ships often who think their ishtars can handle small gangs, they mock down corms fleets yet they get wiped out, they send in Harpies to handle Corms and use the " harpies are disposable" argument when corms are also disposable and gave a big impact on their fleets etc.<br /><br />I've thought other groups that are not CFC and those demonstrate a better "sportsmanship" than Goons.<br /><br />SoV taken from goons, they claim it was an "accident". Fool me once, shame on me, fool me twice shame on you. But hey, they blindly release propaganda and pointless reading material for the blind followers to believe Goons have the power still. Yes they might have the capital and isk power, but doesn't make them invincible.<br /><br />That's my opinion anyway.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-28526016378564700022015-08-11T09:15:07.068+02:002015-08-11T09:15:07.068+02:00@Raphael: sorry, wrong link, this is the "CCP...@Raphael: sorry, wrong link, this is the "CCP defends itself from being used by scammer:" https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5573604#post5573604Gevlonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07072766785893313616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-31006707712618236432015-08-11T08:49:30.716+02:002015-08-11T08:49:30.716+02:00Actually, I rather like Entosis sov. It needs a fe...Actually, I rather like Entosis sov. It needs a few more tweaks, but they're coming. I just wish it <i>wasn't</i> so much of an 'n+1' system. I mean, sure, MOA took like 3 guys and spent most of this past week starting off the sov transfers in western PB tonight, but we finished that off in about 3 hours by bringing a few dozen and spreading them out, while camping MOA in and dropping a supercapital fleet on top of BL's Machariels when they came up to try to make a hash of it.<br /><br />And really, I have no idea why CD has moved to monthly updates, but considering how much Massadeath and Gen Eve are complaining, the fact that Reagalan voiced the same complaint <i>every</i> FC in NullSec has really isn't all that surprising. It's not that the current state of FozzieSov isn't terribly fun for defenders... it's that it's not much fun for <i>anyone</i> short of the same kind of masochistic monsters that <i>love</i> fighting in 10% tidi and soul crushing lag.<br /><br />Which, you know, I do. Feel free to check my public statements on TMC and maybe even Reddit. I make no secret I'm a freak.Arrendisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-34449814669846895662015-08-11T07:02:49.290+02:002015-08-11T07:02:49.290+02:00@Arrendis: sure, you wanted occupancy Sov. But the...@Arrendis: sure, you wanted occupancy Sov. But the Entosis made Regalan cry like a river. https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/3f60qd/csm_share_your_experiences_with_fozziesov/ctlruxb You wanted occupancy Sov AND n+1 Sov capture. You got Occupancy Sov and small gang Sov capture. I'm sure you would prefer "the worst possible Sov + n+1 capture mechanics"<br /><br />Also, the fact that you needed to post an unscheduled emergency SotA to discredit my efforts is hardly nothing.<br /><br />@Raphael: CCP isn't an inanimate stone that is free of blame for being used. When other people tried to use them to legitimate their scam, they were quick to act: https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/3f60qd/csm_share_your_experiences_with_fozziesov/ctlruxb<br /><br />They were in full power to deny Sion from posting the "CCP, savior of vandal Goons" article or ban him if he posts without permission. They were in full power to boycott TMC for airing the first article, undoing the work of Falcon to keep the identity of the vandals hidden. Remember: if keeping the identity of the vandals is a good thing to protect 10000 innocent players, then airing the story is a bad thing, making TMC an irresponsible site. If they issue a "no CCP employee ever answers TMC", that would seriously hurt TMC.<br /><br />It's totally impossible to assume good faith for the Reddit toxic. They could still undo its damage by posting an apology. Want to bet on it ever happening?Gevlonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07072766785893313616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-3530806092832963422015-08-11T06:38:44.901+02:002015-08-11T06:38:44.901+02:00So... you're basically saying "Goons are ...So... you're basically saying "Goons are <i>really good</i> at diplomacy and spin-management, and that's going to make it hard to beat them"?<br /><br />That's not exactly news - at least, not to most of us.<br /><br />I agree that you're facing an uphill battle, and you're going to have a hard time recruiting 'socials' to fight Goonswarm ... but you've misidentified the causal link in the process. The key event wasn't Falcon's comment, or the handling (appropriate or not) of the vandalism case; it's what the Goonswarm diplomats <b>did</b> with those things.<br /><br />It's not that CCP Falcon 'just happened' to hand the Goon spin-masters a piece of propaganda gold that has magically given them a huge advantage and they'd have been helpless without it - he actually only gave them a relatively small opening. Even if he'd somehow done everything <i>perfectly</i> and given them absolutely <i>nothing</i> to work with (a nearly impossible feat for a normal, non-perfect human), they'd just have "perfectly weaponized" something else.<br /><br />TL;DR: When your enemy hits you in the face with a rock, don't assume it's the rock's fault.Raphaelnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-37444343814186405942015-08-11T06:06:17.654+02:002015-08-11T06:06:17.654+02:00Fozziesov was introduced against the will of Goons...<i>Fozziesov was introduced against the will of Goons, forcing them to abandon regions.</i><br /><br />You're aware that we've been asking for an occupancy sov system for years, right? That I can point you to articles on TMC spelling that out in big, bright letters, including ones from Mittens?<br /><br />That's what FozzieSov is. And yes, we had issues with it when it was proposed. We suggested tweaks. Most of those tweaks went in.<br /><br />Honestly, Gevlon, for someone who's a-social, you really seem like we've gotten into your head. Chill out, man. The more you obsess over us, the less healthy it is for you. Do you even remember what it is about us that you object to? Or is it just, 18 months in, that you haven't <i>actually</i> had any effect on us?Arrendisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-66992999402314208922015-08-11T05:22:36.758+02:002015-08-11T05:22:36.758+02:00@Anonymous: there is an alternative explanation &q...@Anonymous: there is an alternative explanation "CCP is biased towards troublemakers" and Goons just happen to be troublemakers, while we are not.<br /><br />I mean if you'd vandalize the monument, your identity was also protected and your ban was also reversed. But since you'll never vandalize anything, you'll never know.<br /><br />The war-lock with infinite allies was a bad feature and they had to cancel it. However the Jade Constantine war wasn't without consequence, that inspired my Marmite permadec in 2014 leading to 2T+ dead Goons.Gevlonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07072766785893313616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-92018814853889037092015-08-11T05:02:06.108+02:002015-08-11T05:02:06.108+02:00I am hazard a guess that if any other player sugge...I am hazard a guess that if any other player suggested that an emotionally disturbed player be pushed into suicide, there would have been a permanent ban. <br /><br />Fast-forward to Jade Constantine getting war-decced by the Goons. That's 1000 in Star Alliance to 9000 in Goonswarm. Jade opened to the war to all of eve. At least 4000 characters signed on board. The goons called this "dog-piling". (they still have a 9:5 advantage!). And CCP stepped in to annul the war.<br /><br />As for this recent steaming pile. Turns out, nobody defaced the monument after Sion white-washed it.<br /><br />But yeah, there is no favorites in Eve. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-78387678931228794612015-08-11T04:42:53.787+02:002015-08-11T04:42:53.787+02:00Speaking as an outsider, when the community of a g...Speaking as an outsider, when the community of a game is small enough, it's impossible to avoid GMs favoring one group or another. This CCP Falcon may be pro-Goon, and there's probably some other GM who's pro-some other anti-Goon alliance. For example:<br />1) As a player and administrator of MUDs, certain players will be treated better or worse depending on how well they get along with the aminds.<br />2) In the old game Realm Online, certain people would get special colored baldrics depending on if they were friends with the devs.<br />3) In Ultima Online, roleplaying communities would get special housing decorations provided by GMs which weren't available to other players.<br /><br />And in all these examples, the people receiving preferential treatment where just a small % of total player base. Seems like Goons make up a significant % of the player base. So yea, they will get special treatment compared to a 2 man corporation. Not saying they will design the game around them, but it makes sense financially for CCP to have a community manager who is friendly with the largest player groups.Valkylnoreply@blogger.com