tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post688837088689246587..comments2024-02-27T14:44:07.868+01:00Comments on Greedy goblin: The kills of 2015: Spacemonkey's AllianceGevlonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07072766785893313616noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-58779671663502293322016-01-14T03:18:13.296+01:002016-01-14T03:18:13.296+01:00Gevlon, there can be more to fun than winning. I c...Gevlon, there can be more to fun than winning. I can win at several games --- among other things, I am about 3 dan in the American Go Association, nothing extraordinary but better than average among people who travel for a week to the national tournament. But I can also be entertained by things other than winning, like working on an open source software project or playing Minecraft. (Admittedly having such a software project succeed can be a nice ego boost similar to winning a game, but that's not the only source of interest.)<br /><br />I don't understand the motivation for joining SMA, but I think your attempt to simplify the situation is a silly false dichotomy. You may not understand the attraction (nothing wrong with that --- I myself don't understand the attraction of spectator sports or of most gambling), but the way that Minecraft has made so much money, not all of it from idiots, should make it clear that a sizable fraction of the attraction of online games doesn't fit tidily into your "win = fun" characterization of everyone other than idiots.<br /><br />It would be strange to play Chess online except to win. But in a sandbox MMO game like Eve, there is a zero sum game but there is also toyetic stuff which is only loosely coupled to the zero sum game.<br /><br />(So far I'm more impressed by the sandbox than the conflict. I'm wistful about the conflict. The tactical conflict rules themselves look interesting. Alas the design of the strategic movement and visibility rules, and the distribution of resources and limitations in the sandbox, seem to conspire to make interesting engagements rarer and less natural than I would like. There are meaningful conflict objectives in nullsec, but the incentives for megablobs make for more organizational friction and tedium than they're worth to me. There is raiding in nullsec, but like raiding anywhere in the game, the system seems to provide only dull and annoying counterplay for anyone who is not on the raiding side. The apparent aimlessness of fighting in lowsec doesn't appeal. W-space has some meaningful objectives and some obstacles to winning by megablob, but having such overpowered stealth and so little interesting counterplay against stealth --- allowing stealthers even to go AFK with perfect safety making a mockery of Eve supposedly being a game where it's unsafe to be undocked, making such weak drawbacks to stealth that a near-100% fraction of w-space traffic naturally uses it instead of an interesting fraction closer to 50%, making baiting the only very practical way to engage stealthers, letting stealthers remain stealthed instead of at least needing to uncloak for target lock in order to get a pilot name to check on zkillboard to keep from getting baited... --- seems to make it fundamentally much less interesting than it could be. Evidently fascinatingly attractive to gankers that enjoy being on the stealth side of that level of stealth overkill, but the appeal of that kind of win is one of those things (like gambling win) that I don't understand. And more generally, it's as though the devs only play as raiders or outright gankers --- to the extent that I guess at least one influential dev must really like the wardec system, station games and all --- and are deeply unenthusiastic about interesting counterplay for anyone else. (And they have no adult supervision from anyone who has a direct incentive to improve revenue by increasing the number of subscribers.) By now I have run across hundreds of enthusiastic blog-ish pages about players being raiders or gankers, and a few tales of doing interesting things defending structures, and zero enthusiastic tales of defense against raiders. If such tales simply don't exist, especially if it is because defense against raiding is cost-ineffective and/or absurdly tedious, then the strategic side of the game design seems too broken to be explained except by something strange like the devs-just-want-to-gank hypothesis above.)<br />William Newmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14336821309402794016noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-33755080199375538552016-01-13T17:07:05.129+01:002016-01-13T17:07:05.129+01:00"Win = fun, lose = frustration": good pl..."Win = fun, lose = frustration": good player<br /><br />Depends on the Win condition you set yourself in the sandbox.<br /><br />For you it is winning if you place billions of isk into MoAs wallet and they have good KDA and kill some goonies.<br />For others this is a "idiot" condition, because they dont "loose", or affect them.<br /><br />it all depends on the direction you look into the things.<br /><br /><br />whats your win condition at all? how long would you pay moa if nothing changes like last year/months? Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-390516256123479942016-01-13T16:21:08.096+01:002016-01-13T16:21:08.096+01:00Gevlon:
"I enjoy success in game, not simply ...<br />Gevlon:<br />"I enjoy success in game, not simply "playing""<br />Do you not see though that you enjoy success on a measure that you set the metrics for. I set my own metrics, so as long as I've challenged and entertained myself when I play, that is a success for me. For some people, shooting rats and making more isk than they lose is success, for some, simply finding and engaging in fights is success regardless of outcome while finding noone is failure.<br /><br />The point is that everyone enjoys success but what they call success isn't necessarily what you call success, and that difference of opinion doesn't make them scrubs.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-1665121634364775852016-01-13T12:56:07.150+01:002016-01-13T12:56:07.150+01:00I enjoy success in game, not simply "playing&...I enjoy success in game, not simply "playing". Seeing the MoA graph growing is great. Not seeing the Marmite graph growing was not so much. Seeing that MoA titan dead was frustrating. So let me simplify it for you:<br />"Win = fun, lose = frustration": good player<br />"ima having fun exploding lol": idiotGevlonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07072766785893313616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-70440294568349795662016-01-13T12:38:38.438+01:002016-01-13T12:38:38.438+01:00""play for fun" is the politicaly c...""play for fun" is the politicaly correct term for "scrub""<br /><br />So tell me how you do not enjoy making Isk in eve, and how you have no fun from your attempts to destroy Goons.<br /><br />If you are not enjoying the game, then it is extremely strange that you are logging in to something you do not enjoy. <br /><br />Which do you think is more bizarre, someone getting enjoyment from a game shooting at rocks, or someone who does not enjoy the game, but feels obligated to log in every day and do things (as must be the case for you, because you do not derive any enjoyment from your campaign against goons).<br /><br />Some people enjoy making ISK, some people enjoy shooting NPCs, some people enjoy throwing billions at a corp to do ganking of their favourite hate target, some people enjoy throwing ships around in lowsec, some people enjoy being part of big blobs, some enjoy industry, some even enjoy PI I have heard.Zaxnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-1100546605843190492016-01-13T11:05:02.243+01:002016-01-13T11:05:02.243+01:00" I play the game for my own enjoyment and do..." I play the game for my own enjoyment and do what I want in the game and SMA gives me the community, friends and PVP content I strive for."<br /><br />Basically every nullsec corp/ally satisfies these points. If you found your friends at SMA, good for you. But you should stick with your in-game friends and not with SMA ultimately. <br />If my native language corp decides that we will join PL/TEST/BRAVE/WH-alli I wouldnt care less as long as I play with them. I would not join the Imperium though. I would bid farewell to friends and look for an adventure in an international community. Although the chance of us joining the Goons is 0. We are waiting for them to invade us in Fountain as they promised.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-55523160791175874702016-01-13T09:14:45.427+01:002016-01-13T09:14:45.427+01:00MoA will give you a valid reason very soon. MoA will give you a valid reason very soon. Gevlonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07072766785893313616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-58844406031578900802016-01-13T09:00:49.000+01:002016-01-13T09:00:49.000+01:00Facebook?!?! lol honestly?!?! that is your answer?...Facebook?!?! lol honestly?!?! that is your answer? I think you need to step out of your shell a bit more. If someone gives me an credible answer on why I shouldn't be in SMA then I'd happily change, but so far no one has. And I don't buy the Imperium is evil bullshit. I play the game for my own enjoyment and do what I want in the game and SMA gives me the community, friends and PVP content I strive for. If you can prove to me another alliance that can do to the same level of quality, then I would happily change.<br /><br />But so far your "Imperium is Evil" tag line just doesn't do it. Sure don't get me wrong I wouldn't join Goons even if you paid me too, but on the same page I wouldn't join PL, Horde, NC or Test, all for similar reasons.<br /><br />I'm happy here and here until someone gives me a valid reason is where I will stay. SMA Toonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-83660776948682955352016-01-13T08:22:24.399+01:002016-01-13T08:22:24.399+01:00Facebook.Facebook.Gevlonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07072766785893313616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-54105662641226184082016-01-13T08:06:41.293+01:002016-01-13T08:06:41.293+01:00You honestly have no idea what an alliance offers ...You honestly have no idea what an alliance offers do you, its more than just logging in and dying. being in an NPC corp does not offer the community interaction I currently get from SMA, so if you believe that I can gain a better community feel elsewhere, then please, Explain where I would get such an experience.SMA Toonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-17791105120905321082016-01-13T07:55:14.387+01:002016-01-13T07:55:14.387+01:00I'm sure you have lot of fun when MoA slaughte...I'm sure you have lot of fun when MoA slaughters you like sheep. "play for fun" is the politicaly correct term for "scrub". Also, why do you need an alliance for such "play", the NPC corp offers the same opportunities: undock and die to the first thing coming ahead.Gevlonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07072766785893313616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-24967611513112348722016-01-13T07:37:48.891+01:002016-01-13T07:37:48.891+01:00We play the game to have fun, we really couldn'...We play the game to have fun, we really couldn't care less what the Killboard looks like, but as usual you'll rubbish this comment because you believe the Killboard is the be all and end all of the game. We just don't care.SMA Toonnoreply@blogger.com