tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post562386063415532815..comments2024-02-27T14:44:07.868+01:00Comments on Greedy goblin: Money talksGevlonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07072766785893313616noreply@blogger.comBlogger77125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-64947776800299960212014-05-01T16:50:05.350+02:002014-05-01T16:50:05.350+02:00IO is right. This is ultimately a conflict of int...IO is right. This is ultimately a conflict of interest issue, which is illegal pretty much anyplace that has contract law. There is an affirmative duty to inform all sides (meaning, they have to go out and make sure everyone knows, not wait for them to ask) when a conflict of interest arises.<br /><br />Noir has screwed the pooch. They had a conflict of interest, and instead of disclosing it, they self-dealt based on it. In pretty much any country in the world, that is fraud. Straight up.<br /><br />This is why mercenaries in Eve need some sort of brokering firm. Escrow, bonding, and if a merc breaks the rules and won't make it right, take the money the broker has been making and use it to hire other mercs to burn them to the ground.Phelpshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06270536870200063563noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-56069714331820153882014-05-01T10:32:57.476+02:002014-05-01T10:32:57.476+02:00I am in M&A business in RL. Our contracts neve...I am in M&A business in RL. Our contracts never specify that if I represent one client, I can't at the same time represent the other side. However if we even once would represent both sides on the same deal, the business would be over the next minute. The client expects full loyalty and best efforts if he is paying me. Same goes for lawyers, auditors, etc.<br /><br />It's impossible to write down every clause in contract. Some things are simply obvious. In this case the mercenaries should have either selected one side, or should have disclosed their conflict of interest and got approval from both sides.<br /><br />Arrendis and other space-nerds, don't talk shit if you don't know how trust business works.IOnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-75623767640163837712014-05-01T06:53:27.802+02:002014-05-01T06:53:27.802+02:00I still don't understand how disclosing contra...I still don't understand how disclosing contract doesn't indicate a conflict of interest. If there was no conflict then why disclose it? Why ask the other party if you can accept the second contract if there is no conflict? <br /><br />Clearly aleske saw a conflict and resolved it by disclosing a contract to a third party (in fact the party the contract was intended to harm).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-78557720633568497642014-05-01T03:34:13.069+02:002014-05-01T03:34:13.069+02:00"When NMG is hired to do a job, whatever that..."When NMG is hired to do a job, whatever that job may be, there are parameters. Those parameters differ with every contract. ... At the end of the contract, the true test of a mercenary's worth is how pleased the employer is. "<br /><br />Taken from: http://noirmercs.com/entry.php?64-What-is-the-True-Measure-of-a-Mercenary-s-Worth<br /><br />As we can clearly see, from Noir's own mouth, their true worth is zero. At least they are honest.Rammsteinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-81404215690978500272014-05-01T00:33:46.788+02:002014-05-01T00:33:46.788+02:00Apparently Alek now claims that the other employer...Apparently Alek now claims that the other employer was paying them to kill both goons and the people killing goons so it seems Noir wanted paying twice to kill goons.<br /><br />https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4533629#post4533629Josephnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-4965966485032284672014-05-01T00:10:55.293+02:002014-05-01T00:10:55.293+02:00Wait, so RvB doesn't form up in numbers for a ...Wait, so RvB doesn't form up in numbers for a <i>voluntary</i> event Burn Jita, and you take that as evidence that both alliances are in shambles?<br /><br />What exactly where they fighting you over? A Mutual Defense pact w/CONDI over POCOs? The same pocos you're not attacking any longer, so they don't need to defend them?<br /><br />Has RvB continued to do RvB's normal activities? You know, shooting each other? If not, then you <i>might</i> have a case. But if they have, then you're just deluding yourself.Arrendisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-32470007657845092502014-04-30T22:56:03.410+02:002014-04-30T22:56:03.410+02:00I'm confused. You claim that Lemmings are &quo...I'm confused. You claim that Lemmings are "your people," yet a few months ago you quit being a part of the organization (you didn't want that alliance anyway).<br /><br />So which is it? Are you a social, playing with and as a part of an alliance? Or are you not a moron and slacker, playing solo in an NPC corp with no social connection to increase opportunity costs?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-88346418746899186942014-04-30T20:45:03.945+02:002014-04-30T20:45:03.945+02:00@Arrendis: there is one and only one thing that ca...@Arrendis: there is one and only one thing that can prevent repetition of such scam: hit the scammer hard.<br /><br />Please note that "massive body of evidence" and practically every commenter told that I should settle with RvB. Instead I went all out on them, both in-game sending my mercs on them and on the blog tarnish their name at the point that hurt them most: their newbie friendly ethos. <br /><br />Look who was right: they are broken, they couldn't send an able bodied fleet against Lemmings, Goons have to hire Noir.<br /><br />I will do the same here: I will tarnish the reputation of Noir as scammers and hit them in game too. Give me 2 or 3 months and they will be in no better shape than RvB.<br /><br />Historical precedents mean "Tom, Dick and Harriett did X and got Y". You say "you won't fare any better, surrender to the customs". I say "I will succeed where Tom, Dick and Harriett failed". <br /><br />Here, everyone else suggests "accept that you weren't careful enough with contracting and they were smart to screw you over". What I will do is crushing these disciples of Erotica 1.Gevlonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07072766785893313616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-74135580183701000482014-04-30T20:35:41.540+02:002014-04-30T20:35:41.540+02:00Anon:
and the point goes unaddressed
Alesk knew i...Anon:<br /><i>and the point goes unaddressed<br /><br />Alesk knew it was a conflict because he told one side about the others contract.<br /><br />Had there been no conflict he had no reason to tell goons he was going to shoot them.<br /><br />Of course I could only imagin what would have happened then lol </i><br /><br />Actually, that's not something you can say at this point, for a very simple reason:<br /><br />You don't have the full details of the other contract. For all you know, the original contract <i>required</i> Noir to inform their client if they were offered other contracts during the same time period. I know I'd require that - it gives me the chance to outbid the competition.<br /><br />Nobody's saying Gevlon shouldn't be pissed - he obviously feels like he got taken for a ride here, so sure, be pissed. But at the same time, he should recognize the behaviors that led to it, and more - recognize the behaviors that <i>prevent</i> repetition, and recognize the potential for unintended blowback that exists in his planned response.<br /><br />Gevlon evaluates every situation he finds himself in as if nobody has ever been there before. He has <i>never</i> been in a situation where there is not historical precedent and a massive body of evidence to say 'if you do X, Y will result'.<br /><br />Then he gets mad when doing X results in Y. This is not successful behavior.Arrendisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-34853347393817094442014-04-30T19:57:58.452+02:002014-04-30T19:57:58.452+02:00and the point goes unaddressed
Alesk knew it was ...and the point goes unaddressed<br /><br />Alesk knew it was a conflict because he told one side about the others contract.<br /><br />Had there been no conflict he had no reason to tell goons he was going to shoot them. <br /><br />Of course I could only imagin what would have happened then lol Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-21807986053464219002014-04-30T19:43:28.021+02:002014-04-30T19:43:28.021+02:00Jita local is full of people publicizing ISK doubl...<i>Jita local is full of people publicizing ISK doublers and they are still in business</i><br /><br />And that's a different business model than mercenaries. I know you like to equate anyone you feel is doing ill to you to Jita scammers, but they're not the same.<br /><br />Stop trying to apply one label - and one response - to everything. Stop trying to turn a rusted nut with a hammer. Learn to use a damned wrench. Appropriate tool for the job.Arrendisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-83516817829021955822014-04-30T19:30:17.151+02:002014-04-30T19:30:17.151+02:00@Arrendis: Jita local is full of people publicizin...@Arrendis: Jita local is full of people publicizing ISK doublers and they are still in business (maybe under a new name). They will stop scamming if they stop getting money.<br /><br />@Lisbeth: I found a way out, see tomorrows postGevlonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07072766785893313616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-52641246814944679932014-04-30T19:24:09.662+02:002014-04-30T19:24:09.662+02:00I do NOT want the reputation that if you find a lo...<i>I do NOT want the reputation that if you find a loophole in the contract I still pay you.</i><br /><br />So you publicize the incident. (You've done that.) You do your level best to make sure everyone knows that you feel you were screwed over by the contractor. Hell, get every little scrap of revenge you can. But you make sure to <i>honor <b>your</b> commitments</i>.<br /><br />That's how you develop a reputation for being someone who holds up his end of the deal, but shouldn't be fucked with.Arrendisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-37960177458314141282014-04-30T19:20:28.254+02:002014-04-30T19:20:28.254+02:00Sorry but RvB likes the hurting .. we are an masoc...Sorry but RvB likes the hurting .. we are an masochistic bunch .. Would not give Noir anything but you are in an catch 22 situation .. you don't pay goons win .. if you pay you are screwed ... <br />Sorry I actually like most of your posts and love you for all the content you provide for RvB but this is an messed up situation ...<br /><br />Lisbeth M Farnsworth RvBLisbethhttp://www.rvbeve.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-91111935308301062062014-04-30T19:11:48.946+02:002014-04-30T19:11:48.946+02:00@Arrendis: I do NOT want the reputation that if yo...@Arrendis: I do NOT want the reputation that if you find a loophole in the contract I still pay you.<br /><br />I want the reputation of "if you act in good faith, I act in good faith, if you screw me over, you get..." wait for tomorrows post, I cooked up something nice for this scammer filth!<br /><br />@Phelps: good point. Probably Goons doesn't want to go public with their long term contract (exactly because of the bolded text in the post) and want Noir to act in "revenge".<br /><br />However I learned something during the RvB war: enemies are easier to defeat then settle with. RvB got enough beating and this time they only protected Goons formally, without forming up. Soon Noir will follow them.Gevlonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07072766785893313616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-5751327935786813332014-04-30T19:04:26.266+02:002014-04-30T19:04:26.266+02:00Anon:
How would my career go? Judging by the exam...Anon:<br /><br />How would my career go? Judging by the examples of people who've done exactly that... pretty damned well. Probably even lead to TV punditry.<br /><br />Why, I could rant and rail about how horrible and evil it is for someone to accept government money in order to buy food, then the very next day, defend the right of some rich asshole to not pay for the use of federal land, or praise the smart business sense of large corporations for taking government handouts they don't need!<br /><br />Also: an impartial review of something is not a 'hack' piece.Arrendisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-42112271209606375362014-04-30T18:51:50.218+02:002014-04-30T18:51:50.218+02:00You're losing the forest for the trees. This ...You're losing the forest for the trees. This isn't the REAL scam. This is the setup for the scam.<br /><br />Noir doesn't WANT you to pay. They WANT an excuse to fulfill their other (scam) contract -- protecting the goons long term. If you don't pay, they can claim that they are getting "revenge" (as they already foreshadowed in the emails post) and hide that they are really breaking the long-term contract with you to take up with the goons.<br /><br />I would say to pay them, and hold them to the original long term contract. That forces them to go public with their betrayal for all to see, rather than hiding it in the smoke.Phelpshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06270536870200063563noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-63892252410445423392014-04-30T18:48:47.836+02:002014-04-30T18:48:47.836+02:00Or it tells other mercenary groups that you unders...Or it tells other mercenary groups that you understand that when you screw up and write a contract that doesn't give you want you want, <i>you</i> will still honor your deals.<br /><br />Because not paying a merc group that actually <i>did</i> complete its contracted services tells other merc groups 'I do not honor my contracts' - and it makes it less likely that the competent, reputable groups will deal with you.<br /><br />This is one of those situations where taking the bullet now makes you bulletproof later.Arrendisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-65132069809128843892014-04-30T18:48:41.997+02:002014-04-30T18:48:41.997+02:00Have to give it to the Goons, contracting NOIR was...Have to give it to the Goons, contracting NOIR was a pretty smart move. Not only did they hurt you, but also hurt NOIR. <br /><br />My bet would be that the whole reason they hired NOIR was to bring bad blood between the two of you, knowing that it would certainly piss you off.<br /><br />As it seems Goons don't have to worry about NOIR kicking their asses ever again.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-36566706503127116472014-04-30T18:47:47.787+02:002014-04-30T18:47:47.787+02:00@ arrendis lets look at your example with the arti...@ arrendis lets look at your example with the articles. <br />to make it apples to apples you need to add something: <br /><br />1: you took the job to write the hack article first<br /><br />2: you took the job to write the nice article second<br /><br />3: you informed the publisher of the hack job article of your nice article but then failed to tell the smaller publisher of your prior contract.<br /><br />Legally your clear, but who gives a rats ask. You say you are in the business, how far do you think your career would go with you writing articles that off set each other? And then ask who would hire you to do something knowing that you could be doing the opposite at the same time. That would be like siskle giving a movie a thumbs up on his tv show and then giving it a thumbs down in his newspaper collum. Had he done that no one would read him and no one would trust his opinion (because which opinion do you trust?)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-51678234895253932152014-04-30T18:37:55.959+02:002014-04-30T18:37:55.959+02:00@ Noir reps: BS on mutally exclusive as evidenced...@ Noir reps: BS on mutally exclusive as evidenced by your posts.<br /><br />Had the contract been mutally exclusive (as suggested by NOIR) then there was no reason to contact the cfc about goblins contract. <br /> You show up and start shooting goons and when the goons complain you say "no you only hired us to shoot lemmings" "you didn't hire use not to shoot you". The fact that Alek went to the goons to request their "permission" shows that he knew they were not mutally exclusive.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-68650665088653700322014-04-30T18:22:02.698+02:002014-04-30T18:22:02.698+02:00@Arrendis: and you'd be right. But it's EV...@Arrendis: and you'd be right. But it's EVE, with no courts. The only way to make your client pay is to make him satisfied, so he wants to return later. <br /><br />We can agree that I would never use the services of Noir again. So giving them money is just throwing it out the window.<br /><br />Actually it's worse: it would put a huge "scam me" sign on my head and the disciples of Erotica 1 would have a competition who can write better contract to get my money while giving nothing in return.Gevlonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07072766785893313616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-10307376011868971412014-04-30T18:15:08.187+02:002014-04-30T18:15:08.187+02:00Anon:
If you argument is still that Gelvon didn...Anon:<br /><i>If you argument is still that Gelvon didn't write an "air tight" contract, then I suggest you add the following disclaimer to Noir's service.</i><br /><br />I'm not in Noir. I'm in TNT. I'm not a mercenary at all. In RL, however, I am a freelancer, with numerous friends who are also freelancers in various fields, and some who are lawyers who specialize in contract law.<br /><br />Gevlon's argument would be laughed out of any legal or arbitration venue. He contracted for specific services, which were delivered. He did not in any way specify non-competition, nor prohibit <i>any</i> behaviors. Now he's refusing to pay. It's really that simple.<br /><br />A comparable example would be... I accept a contract to write an article for a magazine, touting the benefits of a product one of their advertising clients sells. At the same time, I accept another contract to write a review in another, higher-profile magazine of exactly the same product - and my impartial review of the product <i>savages</i> it, because it's bad.<br /><br />If there's no no-compete clause, the first magazine probably can't do shit, no matter how butt-hurt their clients are that the same byline is trashing their product.Arrendisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-42528656212809116272014-04-30T18:08:47.416+02:002014-04-30T18:08:47.416+02:00Maybe I screwed up the contract. This case Aleks c...<i>Maybe I screwed up the contract. This case Aleks can turn to the space-court and sue me. This is the only way he'll see money from me.</i><br /><br />And that's fine - but you're still the one who broke the contract. Say he negotiated in bad faith if you like. That's probably true. But <i>he performed his contractual duties</i>.<br /><br />And that's what a merc lives or dies by, so to speak. That's why the people who actually hire them for <i>bigger</i> work look at - because they know to put everything into the contract.<br /><br />Why? Because <i>you cannot trust a mercenary to do anything not in the contract</i>. They're <i>mercenaries</i>. That's what they <i>do</i>.<br /><br />They do not fight for loyalty or honor - the nature of their profession requires they have none. Saying you were 'betrayed' by a mercenary who adhered to the letter of the contract <i>and did what they were hired to do</i> is like saying 'I bought this new corvette, but the girls didn't flock to me like they did in the commercial'.<br /><br />That's not what the commercial actually promised. It promised a corvette. You got the corvette. End of story.<br /><br />So if you refuse to pay them, that's certainly your prerogative. But if they do enact some kind of retribution, understand that they're not doing it because they're 'goon pets', or they were told to do it by Powers. They're doing it because you made a bad contract, and then refused to pay what even you say you legitimately owe. Arrendisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-2608983732967493232014-04-30T17:48:38.486+02:002014-04-30T17:48:38.486+02:00@Arrendis
If you argument is still that Gelvon di...@Arrendis<br /><br />If you argument is still that Gelvon didn't write an "air tight" contract, then I suggest you add the following disclaimer to Noir's service.<br /><br />**Warning** We at Noir are quite particular about the wording in our contracts. We look for every opportunity to take your money and fuck you over. Use our services at your own risk.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com