tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post5342497871581330786..comments2024-02-27T14:44:07.868+01:00Comments on Greedy goblin: WoW and the Theory of Trade of FunGevlonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07072766785893313616noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-87795975988061630062012-12-07T21:48:48.846+01:002012-12-07T21:48:48.846+01:00Yes, you can get items with money, Pay top guilds ...Yes, you can get items with money, Pay top guilds to do the dance for you, or to run you through that raid to get your gear mount, ect.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-2385363164127908522012-12-06T00:42:56.680+01:002012-12-06T00:42:56.680+01:00The game you describe has already been written abo...The game you describe has already been written about by Neil Stephenson in his book Reamde, although with one slight financial twist to his version.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-76418804589305543652012-12-05T16:28:39.368+01:002012-12-05T16:28:39.368+01:00I agree with your theory of trade of fun, and I th...I agree with your theory of trade of fun, and I think it's even mainstream MMO game economy design. As I understand it, the idea is to segment the players (e.g. time-rich, real-money-rich, senior, other categories such as RMT-phobic, skilled at X minigame or aspect of the entire game), and introduce a currency for each segment. Then control the currency exchange that is permitted within the game, either by prohibiting certain trades outright or by exacting greater or lesser taxes / tariffs on the conversion. <br /><br />There are two aspects of MMO game design that are not well-captured by simply saying "trade of fun". One is Raph Koster's "fun is learning" - games like Super Hexagon or emphasize this kind of fun. There can be this sort of "player skill" fun in fair PvP or in challenging (not farming) PvE gameplay - but in general, I think MMORPGs are pretty terrible at this kind of fun. The in-game modeling of your character's skills and connecting those skills to the rest of the economy via the grind or Eve's seniority currency (skill points) - which I believe is part of what makes an RPG an RPG - makes it awkward to also include player-skill in the game design.<br /><br />The other aspect is what I call "heft" - for example, to transport materials, ships, or modules from one place to another in Eve you have to go through intervening space. Station to station teleportation would be easier for CCP to code, but it would not give the players a feeling of "there's a there there". <br /><br />There is often design tension between managing trade-of-fun and heft. If the cold numeric bones of the game design are too visible, then players seem to have less fun. Heft - as well as being compelling in its own right - obfuscates the trade-of-fun bones.Johnicholashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11401508248125092779noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-80225741635725969012012-12-05T11:08:05.854+01:002012-12-05T11:08:05.854+01:00@Anonymous: Of course some items can be traded and...@Anonymous: Of course some items can be traded and it's good. But it is a very limited group.<br /><br />Yes, you can also be creative and buy your way into teams but there are no interface helping it.<br /><br />@Steel: these would change WoW content. My point is that there is no need to change content, the problem isn't how the Sha of Fear acts or drops but the fact that you can't trade it.Gevlonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07072766785893313616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-20835391369179208152012-12-05T10:27:20.691+01:002012-12-05T10:27:20.691+01:00Remove all (most) dropped loot, besides making it ...Remove all (most) dropped loot, besides making it bind on equip. Instead, mobs and bosses drop complex reagents - The Blood of This, The Scales of That, The Spark of Whatever - and patterns, and almost all gear is crafted from these reagents.<br /><br />Spread the reagents along the various areas of gameplay. So The Blood of This only drops in HC raids, The Scales of That only drop of mobs in zone whatever, The Spark of Whatever is farmed only in PvP zones. Spread it around classes too, so one can only be stolen by rogues, another only extracted by some shaman spell, etc.<br /><br />Now, the sword of uberness will require a bit of all these reagents. Everyone will need a bit of everything. Each type of gameplay will produce surplus of a particular reagent, in excess of what the participants in that gameplay need for their own stuff. The Great Material Continuum will do the rest: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8hcHXwqPEo<br /><br />Steel H. - I quit MMOs altogether, too much real life fun happening!Steel H.https://www.blogger.com/profile/02051764931456770746noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-17710083145185935882012-12-05T10:24:41.905+01:002012-12-05T10:24:41.905+01:00Yesterday's post was fantastic. I cannot agree...Yesterday's post was fantastic. I cannot agree with toady's conclusions though.<br /><br />If you look closely, ToF is everywhere in WoW. You can buy pets, mounts, gear (also epic, darkmoon trinkets) etc. from other players. They will boost your arena rating for gold, you can join experienced raid groups for gold (you've done it yourself).<br /><br />At the same time there are enough possiblities for elite players to differentiate themselves and look down on others/feel superior.<br /><br />You could say WoW is a good mix of both worlds. On one hand you can join as a new player and have fun/get sucked in (as opposed to other "baby eater" games). On the other hand you can delve very deep into the game and "become somebody", if that is what you want (as opposed to WoT, where you are apparently forced to lose against weaker players).<br /><br />I would say this is exactly the secret of WoW's success. All those things you proposed today would ruin it.<br /><br />In my opinion you can always tell a healthy MMO community by looking at the tension between the hardcore-casual crowd. It's always a good indicator that a game is dead when the oldies shower test-week players with presents and gold and beg them to stay.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com