tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post5253872936451209792..comments2024-02-27T14:44:07.868+01:00Comments on Greedy goblin: The limit of free market 1Gevlonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07072766785893313616noreply@blogger.comBlogger54125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-70763034101364055292009-12-22T22:20:57.840+01:002009-12-22T22:20:57.840+01:00Firstly, nitpick: Actually killing your rivals can...Firstly, nitpick: Actually killing your rivals can really be damn effective, especially if you can then force everyone else in line with threats. Look at some world governments. Heck Stalin lived to 74. You can't say Capone and many others weren't successful in their day, and their modern day counterparts are equally well off.<br /><br />Even if I completely conceded that point, that murder is not the most efficient way to get money, why mix morality (which you do with the first point about free markets (not hurting anyone)) in? How is that a core tennent of free-markets, and not just some random side clause, like "buying high and selling low is stupid"? Why include it and not all the other stupid things people could do? What makes it more important that you'd include it?csdxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00722249862304204690noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-8653618236907213982009-12-22T16:00:50.773+01:002009-12-22T16:00:50.773+01:00@Csdx: murdering your rivals is simply dumb. If yo...@Csdx: murdering your rivals is simply dumb. If you can't outcompete them, simply someone else take his place. You can't get the whole world murdered.<br /><br />Why should I care about the defeated moron's living? That part simply doesn't make sense!Gevlonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07072766785893313616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-15315238044916600382009-12-22T15:10:22.127+01:002009-12-22T15:10:22.127+01:00OK, I'm late to this dog and pony show of a to...OK, I'm late to this dog and pony show of a topic but here's my bait: Why does point one apply? I mean if I can hire a guy to go murder my rivals for $X, isn't that the free market? Now if everyone is trying to stop him, that X will have to be very big for him to take that risk, but then that's simply market forces driving the price. That scenario is just a bit more direct than say pushing someone out of a business and maintaining a monopoly (say in a field that has a high barrier to entry so it's possible to do). So I contend that 1) no action/product is already without harm, and that 2) this harm can be priced into the product. E.g. something very toxic to make costs more because of the harm it does to workers (the employer has to pay for their healthcare, thus the harm their job causes). So why this arbitrary non-goblin restriction. I mean is worrying about how the moron you're driving out of business is going to feed his family really going to stop you? If it isn't then the first point of the free market is really false.csdxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00722249862304204690noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-16492429332441825272009-12-22T15:06:37.777+01:002009-12-22T15:06:37.777+01:00@Breevok
Having a Hunter as a Draenai isnt all tha...@Breevok<br />Having a Hunter as a Draenai isnt all that great, with the way Blizz is covering us in Hit it is sad. The 1% hit bonus might be good for the rest of the raid but Hunter Gears is drenched in Hit it sucks...Struttnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-1644584198015918822009-12-22T10:20:13.154+01:002009-12-22T10:20:13.154+01:00@japj: you can research how the specs scale with s...@japj: you can research how the specs scale with stats. For example I can tell you without thinking that any rotation that includes hot streak will suck in blue gear.<br /><br />The "buffer specs" will be competed similarly. There will be for example a "+3% spell hit buff spot". You obviously have to be balance druid or shadow priest to get this spot. <br /><br />The spot itself is protected: if the best moonkin is 500 DPS below the 4th best rogue, he still gets the spot. But he must beat all other moonkins and shadow priests.Gevlonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07072766785893313616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-3062497220736996942009-12-22T09:57:38.430+01:002009-12-22T09:57:38.430+01:00Hmm.. looking at the few days that I'm in this...Hmm.. looking at the few days that I'm in this project now, I have now a couple of questions.<br /><br />1) since this is an experiment that has "never" been done before, how exactly is someone going to research 'the best' into their class/spec with the blue gear limit and since this will be a complete new class/spec for a lot of people? (i.e. I have never played a mage, so how am I going to know exactly what is important for this specific experiment so I can perform at best? I know my priest in and out, but I've been playing her for 2 years now)<br /><br />2) how do you measure "the sum is better than its parts", i.e. someone has a certain spec that is not 'optimal dps', but improves raid buffing in such a way that the overall dps increases (or damage is reduced, whatever). The main focus until now has been to 'maximize' a single dps class, but what if the 'best solution' has to do with a different raid/class/talent tree composition for a certain fight?japjhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00231423352644026675noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-27019385549223727742009-12-22T07:55:45.201+01:002009-12-22T07:55:45.201+01:00@Last anonymous: gear must be FARMED, while select...@Last anonymous: gear must be FARMED, while selecting race is a click. Choosing orc does not cost you more than choosing undead. Farming gear for minimal improvement is not cost-effective. Making a single click instead of another click is.<br /><br />Before you'd say "but research cost time": you have to research your class anyway or you'll be skilless. If you research your spec, choosing the right race does not take extra time. I mean if you already know that your class has no mana problems but benefit from haste than it's obvious that troll is better than blood elf.Gevlonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07072766785893313616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-17465061126618697162009-12-22T05:25:22.890+01:002009-12-22T05:25:22.890+01:00The simple fact of the matter is the latency of yo...<i>The simple fact of the matter is the latency of your internet connection will affect your dps more than your race choice.</i><br /><br />While this may be true, race choice is something you can control, latency is not. Paying taxes costs more than my electric bill, but that doesn't mean I shouldn't try to optimize my energy usage.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17037430684453161509noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-73652940382214117292009-12-22T01:35:46.875+01:002009-12-22T01:35:46.875+01:00I'm confused.
The whole purpose of this proce...I'm confused.<br /><br />The whole purpose of this process is to show that skill vastly outweighs quality of gear....that upgrading an ilevel or two is not a necessary part of normal-mode raiding...the extra 1% crit or 30 AP won't suddenly make you skilled.<br /><br />...but the trivial stat differences between races will?<br /><br />Gear is a crutch, racial selection is an informed choice and indicative of skill. Can you explain that disconnect for me?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-22829413322772144202009-12-22T00:46:32.478+01:002009-12-22T00:46:32.478+01:00It's true; Education is a field where the free...It's true; Education is a field where the free market simply doesn't work. This is of course not limited to formal education but includes the sort of dynamic you discuss. <br /><br />What makes things even more difficult is that many of these people may well be what you would describe as "rationals". Experience and expertise are essential to the making of optimum decisions. A "rational" who has spent the bulk of his or her time running a business or researching physics is unlikely to have much to draw on when choosing a race in World of Warcraft. <br /><br />Their performance will only improve as they learn. If left to their own devices, no doubt some of them eventually would, but not in a timeframe suitable to your challenge. <br /><br />Even in "rationals", in order to be effective lessons require a degree of prior learning. For example, you would not expect even a truly brilliant first-year undergraduate in physics to learn much from failing a fourth-year final examination (other than perhaps a general life lesson in knowing ones limits). The exercise can only become valuable once the student has developed the essential tools they need to engage with it.<br /><br />This does not mean they are driven by ape subroutines or are "social". However their performance may well be <i>terrible</i> if that groundwork has not been laid.Treenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-92024744859466902692009-12-21T23:20:18.212+01:002009-12-21T23:20:18.212+01:00For the people that say race doesn't matter, &...For the people that say race doesn't matter, 'its how you play', that's not quite true. If the ONLY thing you change is the race, then the racial bonuses matter. In the hands of the same player, a dwarf hunter has a numeric advantage over a night elf hunter. If you're good with a night elf hunter, you'll be better with a dwarf hunter. +1% crit > +0% critNewtonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04049908364211016712noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-12129050209033200452009-12-21T21:02:21.296+01:002009-12-21T21:02:21.296+01:00@Nuff - yeah right. That why there are equal amoun...@Nuff - yeah right. That why there are equal amounts of troll and orc PVE warriors. Orc racials in the game are best for pve. If any class has orc - roll it. <br /><br />+5 Expertise with axes = yes please. There are lots of nice one and 2 hander axes nowadays.<br /><br />+ 5% pet damage - your huntards locks and unholy DK say yes please.<br /><br />+ Free AP/SP trinket - yes please. <br /><br />Lets compare BE and ORC unholy DKs with the same gear. orc will have 3-4% higher dmg based on racials alone.Kreeegorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12676160002427456206noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-56551624262895588342009-12-21T20:51:52.469+01:002009-12-21T20:51:52.469+01:00Hmm I'm not quite sure but I think that you al...Hmm I'm not quite sure but I think that you always previously stated that you don't care about BiS and having epic gems or the ultimate enchant as long as you could get away with something cheap. Sorry if I'm wrong but I cba to waste time on finding those posts. Anyway, why all this crap about morons that rolls "the wrong" race? Are you even sure that they rolled it randomly? An UD is an excellent choice for pvp, and not everyone does 100% pve and zero pvp and vice versa. Even if orcs are superior in a pve situation with their pet and blood fury racial UD would be a far better race to pvp with because of WotF. So even if the guy in this post seemed to have rolled a random race don't assume everyone does and btw, I doubt that "noob" would be that much better if he just checked which race that gives the best stats, he would probably still suck unless he learns the important things, what stats he needs and what rotation he should use.Jimmyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07285456064495602769noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-49967519121987430892009-12-21T20:36:57.906+01:002009-12-21T20:36:57.906+01:00Hmmm... I dont place horde so I cant comment. Howe...Hmmm... I dont place horde so I cant comment. However of the three Hunter Classes on the Alliance side - Draenai would be considered the 'wrong choice'.<br /><br />In fact the 1% crit with guns for the dwarf race is considered by many the best of the three - until 3.3 came out. Suddenly a crossbow becomes the most easily accessible ranged weapon (From PoS) until stage three of ICC.<br /><br />At this point the dwarf racial bonus is nulled. But still the draenai heroic presence saves that point in focused aim, or that extra hit gem.<br /><br />Dont dismiss the racial bonus of all races - you never know when what was an advantage will be completely cancelled out.Breevokhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13007745955089390880noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-33725738562658756192009-12-21T20:24:39.889+01:002009-12-21T20:24:39.889+01:00I hope your "people" really know how to ...I hope your "people" really know how to min/max thier specs. Going in all blues and having the same talents as someone with much better gear is completely different. I really doubt that the cookie cutter talent trees are the best choices when your in blues. You will really see the difference in your pro-players vs. tards.Kraazyhealznoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-37644300735159482442009-12-21T20:21:04.968+01:002009-12-21T20:21:04.968+01:00Wow, the first dumb post I have seen from you! If ...Wow, the first dumb post I have seen from you! If you really think that the "race" of a given character will untimately decide the difference between who goes and who stays you are going to be sadly mistaken. Infact I HOPE TO GOD that some of your most skilled players choose to roll a UD melee just to prove that it's not that big of a deal. Your biggest issue you will have Gelvon isn't going to be "dps at the stake" it will be dps on the boss fights. Did you forget that a dead 7k dps isn't as good as the 1000dps that is still alive at the end? Ahh this isn't just your problem, but I have time and time again see people pull HUGE numbers on the "stake" and then in boss fights do 75% of that. Between movement, chaos, and system performance (lag and the computer that can't keep up) it just kills them. Anyways I still like your idea, but this last post was full of one-sided thinking.Kraazyhealznoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-18052115034353336432009-12-21T19:30:48.041+01:002009-12-21T19:30:48.041+01:00I agree with the anon that said that the market dy...I agree with the anon that said that the market dynamics can work as the best type of education. Although I think it really works by separating the people who will make the effort to be better informed, versus the ones who will either shrug their shoulders and quit, or angrily demand that they be rewarded for being sub-par.<br /><br />Not everyone learns, but that is not necessarily a fault of the free market.Tonushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01082528970434639776noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-31453025593403675902009-12-21T18:30:39.377+01:002009-12-21T18:30:39.377+01:00Race choice is utterly meaningless for your perfor...Race choice is utterly meaningless for your performance. 100% utterly meaningless. The simple fact of the matter is the latency of your internet connection will affect your dps more than your race choice.Nuffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05403557430874732558noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-66294015569458320172009-12-21T18:30:19.766+01:002009-12-21T18:30:19.766+01:00Though in this Guild I do see why you might need t...Though in this Guild I do see why you might need to worry about squeezing everything you can out of your toons since you'll be in all blues, so everylittle bit counts. But the lose in DPS from choosing the right/wrong racial, could be easily made up or lost with a missed GCD, or accidential mess up of rotaion or hell, just the latency of "clickers"Struttnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-21836625920249994742009-12-21T18:29:32.005+01:002009-12-21T18:29:32.005+01:00Locks can play well as any race depending on the p...Locks can play well as any race depending on the player. <br /><br />Also you will not be able to tank ICC with blues only. Your healers will struggle over and over and will not be able to keep the tanks alive.Belalronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04974107942091238708noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-83497301408305723282009-12-21T18:25:24.262+01:002009-12-21T18:25:24.262+01:00any race played well is ok for warlocks.any race played well is ok for warlocks.Belalronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04974107942091238708noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-49376934536230479652009-12-21T17:47:52.849+01:002009-12-21T17:47:52.849+01:00While I normally find this type of min-maxing to b...While I normally find this type of min-maxing to be fairly ridiculous, it makes sense for this experiment. The point of it is to wring the smallest bit of value out of every aspect of a character since you cannot rely on gear making stuff like that an effective 'wash'. <br /><br />While I really do not consider racials to be much to worry about in general, in this scenario one should worry about the smallest margins.Nielashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08685329191772513319noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-19108340875801769232009-12-21T17:18:51.274+01:002009-12-21T17:18:51.274+01:00@Last anonymous: and you just won the "first ...@Last anonymous: and you just won the "first to notice it". I convinced half dozen mages and warlocks to reroll orcs or trolls respectively.Gevlonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07072766785893313616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-70629957016759398782009-12-21T17:01:28.825+01:002009-12-21T17:01:28.825+01:00"orc racials would be better for a mage"..."orc racials would be better for a mage"<br /><br />That's a neat trick considering orc mages aren't allowed. Min-maxing only stretches so far.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-46930275195134744492009-12-21T17:00:47.710+01:002009-12-21T17:00:47.710+01:00@Anonymous with Schumpeter: wait for tomorrow
@An...@Anonymous with Schumpeter: wait for tomorrow<br /><br />@Anonymous 2: I don't put too much weight on races. I'm a blood elf myself. I'm just saying that the guy did not came to the conclusion: "racials are overrated". He just randomly picked a race.<br /><br />@Newton: while every little bit counts, I seriously doubt that I will have to kick a 2300 totem DPS rogue because a 2350 and a 2360 DPS rogues are available.Gevlonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07072766785893313616noreply@blogger.com