tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post5152532061011279335..comments2024-02-27T14:44:07.868+01:00Comments on Greedy goblin: Goons: enhancing our game, destroying the gameGevlonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07072766785893313616noreply@blogger.comBlogger19125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-77500689169299684382012-04-08T13:44:32.780+02:002012-04-08T13:44:32.780+02:00"Vanilla WoW was a good gameplay. Bad players..."Vanilla WoW was a good gameplay. Bad players could quest and farm unharmed on a PvE realm, but they couldn't get epics or even epic mounts."<br /><br />Let me guess: You didn't play in vanilla WoW? In most MC raids I was with about 10 of 40 people of the worst kind of M&S*, the level you find in LFR now. Wearing epics afterwards anyhow. Or maybe that was just my realm.<br /><br />*Sure, what was an informed player was a lot different now and then. But I am talking about simple stuff like not being afk during a boss fight. Owning a shield as warrior (as they were the only real tank class then). Or actually knowing how to heal as hybrid as that was their only raid role, emphasized by the heal-only drops.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-81057383184094325882012-04-07T13:39:59.310+02:002012-04-07T13:39:59.310+02:00All mmo are theme parks because theme parks make t...All mmo are theme parks because theme parks make the most money. The 67% that never leave high sec, and the 80% that never enter null sec shows how much of a theme park eve online really is. The fact that high sec even have security if the first place is certain that it is a theme park. The difference between this theme park and other theme park is that the slum (null sec) is nearby, and that law enforcement (concord) does not exist in this slum (null sec).<br /><br />Gevlon wants to convert the slackers into more informed and better quality players. However, he knows that the morons are unchangeable, and it is not his task to convert these people into better players. His delusion is that he believes that he can convert all of them, even though he does not know which people are morons and which people are slackers. However, the more he tries, the more he can differentiate between the morons and slackers, and that he will see that morons will never change. Some people, on the other hand, believe that there are only morons and don't bother with trying to help others. Another group of players want to get rid of morons by the method called "grieving," but that fails too, as the game company itself does not like the method of grief. Converting the slackers into able players is one thing, but trying to convert the morons is such an idiotic idea that only fools would continue to try to enlighten the morons.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-57250250720245068182012-04-07T02:47:43.052+02:002012-04-07T02:47:43.052+02:00I think that in your blog you are forgetting a imp...I think that in your blog you are forgetting a important thing, CCP's motivation and goal.<br /><br />CCP did things different with EVE online, they made a true sandbox and not a themepark. They have full PVP without any safe area's. <br /><br />Especially if you look at subscriber graphs or login graphs it is clear that eve is different then the rest. Where other MMO's spike hard after an initial marketing blitz and then coast downwards until the product gets discontinued or put in maintenance only mode, EvE has actually seen a humble beginning with a steady growth over the last 9 years.<br /><br />They are not aiming eve to be a common denominator, they have found a niche that is working for them and especially after last year they are focused to stay in that niche.<br /><br />CCP also has a culture of hiring from the player base. As some other commenter already hinted at, some prominent CCP members like CCP soundwave (lead game designer) and CCP skreegs (security team) are both ex-goons. Skreegs being a former CEO and soundwave a former director.<br /><br />Those are only the known employee's but there are many more, a common story employee's will state is that they where already eve players before getting hired.<br /><br />While it is obviously nothing more then speculation, I truly think that if CCP ever made a hard split and would say "hi-sec is now a designated themepark with fun rides, and if you want sandbox go out into low or null or W space" Eve wouldn't be eve any more, the economy would break, and a big chunk of the current players would probably slowly trickle away.<br /><br />Eve is eve because space is cold uncaring and harsh. You have to make social connections to survive, to compete and to get stuff done. <br /><br />And that's the biggest part of eve anyway, the social aspect. Stories get made in eve because people interact with each other. That's the content.<br /><br />Doesn't matter if it's a lowsec FW alliance that kills a titan, or the goons who lay siege on Jita; Perhaps even a single player who decides to pour billions of ISK into dominating a certain market item.<br /><br />It creates stories, unscripted events. Things we can experience and share. Even if that sounds a bit mushy, it's what eve is. Doing things that effect the world for everyone.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-44204221620140387112012-04-07T02:15:30.866+02:002012-04-07T02:15:30.866+02:00Out of curiosity:
Ignoring real world economic co...Out of curiosity: <br />Ignoring real world economic considerations (= pve players leaving), would you like high-sec removed completly? That is: ffa pvp as soon as you undock without any npc force interacting?<br /><br />If no: why not?<br />If yes: why are you not in null-sec yet?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-30645812027019131582012-04-07T01:13:24.421+02:002012-04-07T01:13:24.421+02:00..Gevlon, are you really trying to make the M&.....Gevlon, are you really trying to make the M&S safe? Are you really campaigning for hisec to be a sanctuary?<br /><br />This is a far cry from your WoW days where you were very vocal about ridding the game of M&S. <br /><br />Your Eve days seem to have you being just as vocal, but towards one of the smartest and able corps. And rallying the M&S!<br /><br />Reality check, the goon shave been being goons for years. <br />Eve subscribers have gone up every year. <br /><br /><br />And as for the pilots who get ganked in Jita and quit, what produce would come from them had they kept playing? Would they provide user created content?<br /><br />Would they eat up all the minerals that hisec can produce?<br /><br />Would they wage awesome wars that get people to subscribe?<br /><br />Or would they keep running their hisec L4 agent. Yeah we need that guy around at all costs!<br /><br />The real issue, I think, is that you need content for your blog, and goons are low hanging fruit.<br /><br />You are not competent in Eve yet, but still want to post intelligent posts, so you pick on the goons. <br /><br />I would really like the old Gevlon back. The one who would be front running with the goons, or setting up a full scale IN GAME war with them.antronicshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15035277690957131599noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-82184659345296334802012-04-07T00:12:56.523+02:002012-04-07T00:12:56.523+02:001) Increasing the security status of Jita won'...1) Increasing the security status of Jita won't help. With the insane cycle time and alpha strike of tornadoes, you don't get a second shot in 0.9 space. A suicide ganker will quite literally be loading one round of faction ammo into each of my guns.<br /><br />2) Suicide ganking isn't new. There's been multiple hulkageddons, where people are rewarded for killing the maximum number of hulks. Suiciding L4 mission runners in pimped out CNR and similar (to scoop their dropped modules) has been going on since 2003. A bunch of bloodthirsty idiots descending on Jita for a weekend isn't more than a bump on the galactic plain.<br /><br />3) Your orca plan isn't likely to do any good, even if you could pull it off. Goonswarm is rich. Mining a technetium moon pulls in 100 units of the mineral per hour. Jita is currently at 146,615 ISK on technetium buy orders. This is 10.6 bn ISK per month, per moon. The goons have 50+ such moons. The point of the interdiction isn't to make money, or to be ISK-efficient. Indeed, it's designed to waste ISK in an amusing a way as possible.<br /><br />4) This Jita campaign was being openly discussed well before the post-fanfest shitstorm went down. It's not a result of CCP hastily reacting to the gaming media.<br /><br />5) Deklein is well-defended. The only major risk from everyone going and riding bikes in Jita for a weekend is roaming gangs shitting up the space for a couple of days. If someone were to launch a major invasion, VFK is only a pod-jump away, and I'm sure Pandemic Legion would be willing to let you know how successful their last attempt at headshotting it was.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-56782985814036404752012-04-06T19:51:36.800+02:002012-04-06T19:51:36.800+02:00I love that you say the goons will drive away the ...I love that you say the goons will drive away the paying players and be bad for CCP, then go on and suggest removing level 4s from highsec.<br /><br />That's been a suggestion for years, but even the goons admit that it would drive away so many paying customers it might even destroy the game.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-23899454634417131402012-04-06T17:47:17.098+02:002012-04-06T17:47:17.098+02:00A question about the jita blockade.
If the goons ...A question about the jita blockade.<br /><br />If the goons are expending resources doing the jita event won't that leave them vulnerable in their nullsec space? Why can't other (enemy) alliances capitalise on it.Bobbinsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-15769232406955315872012-04-06T16:58:05.603+02:002012-04-06T16:58:05.603+02:00"I know that EVE players keep telling themsel..."I know that EVE players keep telling themselves that they are better than WoW players, but my 300M/day income strongly disagrees."<br /><br />Wow, seriously Gevlon? I was sure you were smarter than this. Do you have an understanding of even the basic precepts of economics?<br /><br />Let me ask you this: I presume that IRL you have a job. I further presume that in this job, you earn a solid income. Does this demonstrate that your employers/clients are somehow morons because they're part of an economy that generates income for you?<br /><br />Of course not. You make money IRL (and in Eve) because generating wealth is a natural function of any economy. Eve, as a consequence of its design, has a particularly robust economy, which means there are many opportunities for one to generate wealth. That doesn't mean the players of Eve are morons, it just means the economy is working as intended.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-36231763554811492912012-04-06T12:58:12.074+02:002012-04-06T12:58:12.074+02:00Mining in an incursion system? Hmm.. don't the...Mining in an incursion system? Hmm.. don't the belt rats get upgraded rather a bit when there's an incursion happening?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-60688438955631524472012-04-06T11:27:47.188+02:002012-04-06T11:27:47.188+02:00@Steel: because PvE "threat" is a lie.
...@Steel: because PvE "threat" is a lie. <br /><br />The Lich King was just talking about destroying Azeroth, but never actually left Icecrown citadel (not in the "lore" but in actual gameplay). He did not kill a single player who did not went to his room and pulled him.<br /><br />Same for the Shansas. If I don't explicitly pick a fight with them, they leave me alone. I can even come and go in incursion system, buying, selling, running distribution missions, mining and the Shansas won't come and gank me. I must actively go to a Vanguard to see one.<br /><br />Rift tried "PVE griefing" and quickly nerfed it, exactly for this reason. M&S players must be left alone or they quit playing.<br /><br />The difference of WoW and a good gameplay is NOT that in the latter they can be harmed. They should not be harmed if the publisher wants subscriber money. The difference is that in a good game the M&S can't win, can't parade in top ilvl items on whatever colored dragon.<br /><br />Vanilla WoW was a good gameplay. Bad players could quest and farm unharmed on a PvE realm, but they couldn't get epics or even epic mounts. EVE should be the same: they can run crap missions and mine crap ore unharmed but shall never be flying a faction battleship or higher unless they learn to play.Gevlonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07072766785893313616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-11804807797694186372012-04-06T10:48:08.313+02:002012-04-06T10:48:08.313+02:00http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVSJb58kga4
http://...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVSJb58kga4<br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejX0Rym0NZw<br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wq4Y7ztznKc<br /><br />"In the long term, I would like to see hisec itself become a realm of misery and fear. In the past two weeks as I have been murdering miners, I have found the average hisec dweller to be truly execrable. Imagine the worst iskmonger of the Northern Coalition, selling supercaps to the very people trying to destroy him, and then imagine that smug fuck protected from any and all risk by Concord. The most common insult I have seen in hisec is some trivial "I'm richer than you" wallet e-peen contest, as if any of them have riches from scrabbling at veldspar with their bloodied fingernails.<br /><br />Perhaps I've taken the Stalinist gimmick too close to heart, but this enrages me. It is my hope that through a combination of technetium, targeted strikes on bottleneck assets, and the service of Dread Pirates we can send these people into a paroxysm of misery."<br /><br />Poking for another grand philosophy post. Can you explain again what the difference between these is? Between PvE and PvP? Why, if this stuff is a bunch of scripted NPCs and bad voice acting it's epic lore and content, but if it's actually player driven and dynamic, it's grieving, asshatery, and bad community, and will drive players away? I know you have explained this a million times before, but I just can't get enough gevlonist phylosophy...Steel H.https://www.blogger.com/profile/02051764931456770746noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-5166783426296794942012-04-06T10:30:30.525+02:002012-04-06T10:30:30.525+02:00"I want them to reform and be better ... Goon..."I want them to reform and be better ... Goons don't want to change them, they just want them to suffer, die and disappear."<br /><br />Pardon me, but the logo of your blog reads 'It's more fun without morons and slackers', not 'I want them to reform'.Geshnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-12585231248061803582012-04-06T09:48:12.400+02:002012-04-06T09:48:12.400+02:00You make one false assumption - that Goons will at...You make one false assumption - that Goons will attack with their main/alts and with BC/BS. Much more probable is that they wil make several 14 day free accounts and fit them with cheap destroyers - like hundreds of destroyers per account (or at least I would do it that way). <br /><br />If someone have the free time - calculate how much destroyers would be needed to kill the same Orca and what is their cost compared to the cost of using Tornados.Galaradhttp://www.www.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-85696594678474692662012-04-06T08:51:52.789+02:002012-04-06T08:51:52.789+02:00You keep repeating the 80% number as the high sec ...You keep repeating the 80% number as the high sec population share. Latest numbers show it as 67%. <br /><br />http://www.evenews24.com/2012/02/15/malefactor-lowsec-by-the-numbers/<br /><br />While the supply constraints of EVE are impossible to pin down, I'd be very surprised if they can sustain an intense level of Tornado attacks for anything like a day. Thrasher and Catalyst attacks maybe.<br /><br />More than likely, Jita space shuts down because of high population and allows no one to enter very early that day. Besides the Goons, there will be 10x their number of spectators/kill mail whores.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-12946623776984436742012-04-06T08:49:42.765+02:002012-04-06T08:49:42.765+02:00Most players tend to understand the Goons' mot...Most players tend to understand the Goons' motivations; iirc Bartlett categorizes about 30% of players as "killers". What I completely fail to understand is why CCP would indulge them. In particular, they are going to have a F2P console game through Sony.<br /><br />I can't see Sony executives or undecided console players being overly excited by true-EVE sorts of PR. And someone who has $0 invested in a game may not be willing to put up with much griefing. And CCP purchased two companies in two countries in order to do DUST. <br /><br />If they let dozens of millions of dollars of development be dissipated because they can't reign in the players, then CCP, and their shareholders, are far bigger morons & slacker than any you have discussed. <br /><br />tl;dr: You or the Goons can only succeed if CCP is quite incompetent. <br /><br />We shall see.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-46720991501491833982012-04-06T08:33:10.025+02:002012-04-06T08:33:10.025+02:00@Steel: I have no doubt that it's content and ...@Steel: I have no doubt that it's content and a real choice. I indeed wanted to get a "combat" ship to fight the Goons, but despite prioritizing it above all else I can't get into the hull before May 5. It was an Orca, fitted for 250K EHP, paraded front of the Goons after I publish some post telling that I'm transporting billions in the corporate hangar. Since Tornados can do one volley, to take down my Orca they would need to use 24 tornados (1.7B) while after insurance costs only 250M to me, which is one day income.<br /><br />However the point is exactly that while I'm capable making such choices, the bad players unaware of the choices themselves and everything seems to be an unstoppable disaster for them, so they leave.Gevlonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07072766785893313616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-32579778745012154182012-04-06T08:10:40.191+02:002012-04-06T08:10:40.191+02:00Thanks for the reply Gevlon. A few corrections (as...Thanks for the reply Gevlon. A few corrections (as always):<br />- the Jita invasion was planed long before this whole suicidegate business. The first mention was in the victory update after the conquest of Branch, back in January.<br />- this is not 'waging war' on CCP, but a shock-test to see how they react. But mainly it's epic, dynamic content at it's finest. You can't google the outcome or watch a tankspot video, nobody knows what will happen, goons included. It's a test for them as well. Plus, you can get in a combat ship and try to fight the goons, to defend your fellow bears. You you can join the goons. That's a better MMO moral choice than whether you want to give a rude or polite answer to some NPC, wouldn't you say?<br />- they already know that you cannot get 2 shots in Jita, that's why Tornadoes are used in the first place. Concord is ineffective against alpha since they only attack after you have fired the first shot, and police can be evaded too, even at -10. Also, you can be sure all the tactics, mechanics will be theorycrafted and fully tested, and lots of preparations made, just like it was for the ice campaign. These people have been playing the game for years.<br />- the Leviathan is the only titan that cannot blap subcapitals, due to the way missile mechanics work, just so you know. That's why you don't see them used by Raiden&co. Obviously CCP can hax whatever they want - that's what we'll find out.<br />- Mittens has been playing the game, and dealing with CCP for years, spent months every year in Iceland discussing internet spaceships, intimately knows the devs and their culture, and several exgoons are CCP devs in high positions. Between you and him, I guess I'm going to go with Mittens.<br />- Reballancing the risk/reward between high and null has been the holly grail of the Mittani and CSM since forever. It's currently the main sucking chest wound of eve. The other is nullsec stagnation, due to supercap imbalance, horrible SOV mechanics and the forementioned risk-reward thing, which has depopulated nullsec. That's why we run campaigns against hisec, there isn't anything else to do in null much. Fixing 0.0 would go a long way towards letting hisec bears leave in peace and love.<br />- as for the broader 'gank the bears and they'll leave', I'll let Syncaine deal with it, as he never seems to tire of this. Oh, look, it's Friday alreadySteel H.https://www.blogger.com/profile/02051764931456770746noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-7038704534744930972012-04-06T07:37:21.911+02:002012-04-06T07:37:21.911+02:00Just a small note on the motivations behind the Go...Just a small note on the motivations behind the Goons attack on Jita - He announced that he planned on doing so as a celebration for getting 10 thousand votes in the CSM well before any of the drama happened. The motivations have undoubtedly changed, as has the scope of what they plan to do I'm sure, but just to be clear this was simply what the Goons do when they get happy and exited about something.Celery Mannoreply@blogger.com