tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post4715073691663574220..comments2024-02-27T14:44:07.868+01:00Comments on Greedy goblin: Why does Blizz support goldselling?Gevlonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07072766785893313616noreply@blogger.comBlogger73125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-45106470341657396632010-05-02T22:27:51.340+02:002010-05-02T22:27:51.340+02:00It isn't just Blizz that fails to stop botting...It isn't just Blizz that fails to stop botting, having played Eve-online since 05 i have seen them ban accounts after three years of botting, then just a few weeks later without admitting it to the playerbase they have returned the accounts to the botters. Like most MMO companies it seems they are interested more in the $$$ that the subs bring into them than the happiness of the playerbase.Hoodynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-59790755787299402332010-04-22T13:35:21.585+02:002010-04-22T13:35:21.585+02:00"It may seem easy to detect these bots, but i..."It may seem easy to detect these bots, but in reality it takes a lot of man hours to do it. Given the lower labour rates in the countries where the gold-sellers have their operations, that's a battle that Blizzard can never win."<br /><br />There is a phrase "employ a thief to catch a thief". Maybe Blizzard could employ some of this cheap foreign labour to police the system......Evlyxxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12585191601697235555noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-91975084828674367932010-04-13T20:37:38.046+02:002010-04-13T20:37:38.046+02:00There might be other legal aspects to monitoring t...There might be other legal aspects to monitoring that should be considered. If they aggressively monitor player chat / playing habits for gold selling they could be accountable for monitoring other player behaviors. (threats, harassment, etc)Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16940584628234341774noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-83307349868366388542010-04-11T06:16:26.901+02:002010-04-11T06:16:26.901+02:00Google isn't one server, it is something like ...Google isn't one server, it is something like a cluster of 30,000+ servers all running a stripped down OS and doing nothing but the search algorithm on an optimised database. Database optimisation happens elsewhere.<br /><br />WoW is maybe 1-100 servers per realm handling the movement and authorisation of upto 10,000 entities (say 1/3rd of the active 80 population on a big server). Sure it is possible to track each one and work out if it is cheating, but the goblin way comes into this as a cost / benefit analysis. If the raw materials sell for more than the crafted item you don't sell the crafted item, similarly if the effort / payoff for not handling RMT beyond extreme cases (and handling account fraud) is less than that of handling it, coding, checking and employing people to fix mistakes then you don't do it.<br /><br />My level 1 characters enter towns all the time, they go and meet my mains, they access the AH for stuff they will need etc. The game is already too restrictive on trial accounts, low levels don't deserve to be punished.<br /><br />As an aside, it also spoils the emersion factor: "You have killed 38 boars and we believe you are a bot please enter conneyi in the box below"... wtf, Nagrand had quests to kill 30 mobs, then 30 more, then 30 more... x 3. It is not that unusual for people to actually farm areas, my 70 shaman made 60% of a level while I was half afk (tab lightning bolt spam ftw) at the entrance to the starting area of howling fjord. I was at the keyboard farming mobs. My Paladin recently killed 300+ mobs in AQ40 looking for a red mount. Stuff like this isn<br />t uncommon.Chrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18415648946567949701noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-45286381429725175692010-03-12T16:21:22.982+01:002010-03-12T16:21:22.982+01:00I don't like the idea to block level 1's t...I don't like the idea to block level 1's to cities. <br /><br />You exclude all the level 1 bankers? <br /><br />A better solution would be a time limit. Time is something hackers / spammers normaly don't have. <br />They could implement this: <br />When a L1 char is created, it has several restrictions (for example, can only talk to questgivers and vendors). <br />Those restrictions are gradualy lifted by either doing quests or time spent on-line while not standing stil or /AFK. The same you can do for the amount of gold. A fresh level 1 can't own more than 1 gold (for example) and with time going by (days, not hours) it gradualy levels up. <br /><br />In this system you can have level 1 bankers, and still block spammers. These restrictions must be applied on *all* accounts, including the 5 year olds ;), so that account hacking isnt fun anymore for spammers. (remember the msg's in blizz forums about 50ish level 1's made on a account, all in Ogrimmar on the same spot with names like 'qwertytrewq') <br /><br />Not that this is an ideal situation, but much better than your suggestion by blocking it all.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-24515479499477513472010-02-17T03:19:45.850+01:002010-02-17T03:19:45.850+01:00Imo. Bliz should just sell gold and for pay level ...Imo. Bliz should just sell gold and for pay level granting for people for their alts.<br /><br />They could put the spammers and the hackers out of business and profit more themselves.Zanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03812849792328418932noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-13088121229834277432010-02-16T22:04:17.917+01:002010-02-16T22:04:17.917+01:00Blizzard alsso supports AFK botting in battlegroun...Blizzard alsso supports AFK botting in battlegrounds. It's someone paying $15 a month and gives the regular players someone to shoot when participation is low.<br /><br />I've seen no less than 6 afk bots all paladins leveling in AV 71-79. I opened multiple tickets on their servers. Sent emal to hacks@blizzard.com.<br /><br />Nothing was ever done.<br /><br />I'll quit wow after we kill the lich king tonight.Dougnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-39097302562014650782010-02-16T13:46:18.005+01:002010-02-16T13:46:18.005+01:00I believe that trial accounts can enter capitals. ...I believe that trial accounts can enter capitals. Also I believe that you are dead on, in that it would be simple for Blizzard to prevent gold selling, but I don't think that necessarily amounts to supporting it.<br />I believe that rather they are ambivalent for (ironically enough) the same reasons that you stated they are support it. <br />Then again maybe I just perceive too much difference between Blizzard supporting RMT and just not caring (likely because I am a social)Charlesinchargenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-25984478102150750582010-02-16T10:15:25.025+01:002010-02-16T10:15:25.025+01:00It does seem like blizzard might turn a blind eye ...It does seem like blizzard might turn a blind eye to gold selling, but two things make me think they probably don't support it. One is authenticators. They subsidize the cost of them lose money distributing them. The primary function of the authenticator is to frustrate account compromising, which is almost always related to gold selling.<br /><br />The other is the massive resource hog that restoring compromised accounts costs. Customer support can't keep up with the demand, subscribers are annoyed and inconvenienced whether they need a restoration, or because they have a multiple day wait for other issues. <br /><br />Surely if blizzard were going to sell gold on the sly, they could provide all the product the companies would need. If controlling them would be as easy as you think, blizzard could simply lock out the gold sellers that won't play ball, and provide gold to the ones giving blizzard a cut. No need to get player accounts and clean out their gold. <br /><br />And if for some reason blizzard felt it necessary for gold companies to take the gold for player accounts, they wouldn't be pushing authenticators so hard.Zanathosnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-9592342516863387772010-02-16T08:56:55.150+01:002010-02-16T08:56:55.150+01:00@Shannara
"North America servers should only...@Shannara<br /><br /><i>"North America servers should only allow North America IP ranges to log in. Granted, a lot of criminals uses NA proxies to login. This part is simple, use the socket's thread to use on of the MANY proxy reverse services to see if it's a proxy IP, if so, ban it (if not already banned)."</i><br />Using your proposed system, you would ban any NA players from accessing the game when they are (for example):<br />- on holiday<br />- on a work trip overseas<br />- accessing the network via any kind of secure proxy of the kind commonly used by large organisations<br /><br />Incidentally, could you please clarify what you meant by a "proxy reverse service"? I've come across reverse proxies, but not "proxy reverse", which from your description seems to be a different thing. Perhaps give an example of the "many" such services that exist?Svenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07968080562561684936noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-29541785926859663542010-02-16T07:05:41.452+01:002010-02-16T07:05:41.452+01:00I think you are right. I wouldn't doubt it fo...I think you are right. I wouldn't doubt it for a second if some of these gold selling sites are run by blizzard, or they allow it for a certain cut from the profits.<br /><br />It is an easy way for them to run a RMT, but keep it on the down low.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16507484851860959875noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-15711975655858856472010-02-16T05:10:08.109+01:002010-02-16T05:10:08.109+01:00Yo Gevlon,
Your proposed methods of regulating go...Yo Gevlon,<br /><br />Your proposed methods of regulating goldselling will not work. As you have previously stated*, non-market solutions will be abused. Your proposed solutions are effectively government intervention, not a market-based approach. People are very crafty and will quickly find ways around trade barriers (eg, illegal drugs).<br /><br />Here is a question for Gevlon: how could you rearrange the in-game incentives such that demand diminishes enough to greatly reduce or eliminate goldsellers?<br /><br />*see http://greedygoblin.blogspot.com/2010/01/tank-trick-again.htmlAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-22269443893552617942010-02-16T04:38:37.916+01:002010-02-16T04:38:37.916+01:00@drew and every one else...
yea but i think they c...@drew and every one else...<br />yea but i think they could still do more to stop it<br /><br />As for Client side filtering vrs server side, it wouldnt be hard to incorperate at least some functionality into it.<br />What happens when i Right click a name and report for spaming?<br /><br />GM Accesibility? Most recent issues ive reported i got a repsonse 4-6 hours latter or in the mail the next day.<br /><br />if blizz supported RMT themselfs (buy 1000 gold and get a free Rangnoros pet) would that stop the illicit sellers or just force them to drop their price?<br /><br />The real true answer is as long as the comminity supports the practce in even small amounts the gold sellers make money and keep doing it<br /><br />But I would like to see a bit more of a crack down on it. And yes when they know about it they will ban buyers as well as sellers. Guess we just need an AOC2 so they can do another mass banAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-76654852342645991572010-02-16T04:06:02.902+01:002010-02-16T04:06:02.902+01:00Why is WoW a game where players feel they need to ...Why is WoW a game where players feel they need to acquire large amounts of gold to have fun at all? Due to the cost of enforcement, it is inevitable that focusing on destination, rather than journey, will lead to botting, powerleveling and RMT. This was the meaning of my previous comment which was not approved for publication. Since it makes no sense to create 79 levels of content while simultaneously conceding that those 79 levels are not fun, the only reason for this disparity is the inability of the devs to reconcile leveling with endgame and their resulting decision to let people avoid the former as much as possible. If the resulting gold spam and 'easymode' feel of the game upsets you, then according to Blizzard's own words you are not 'the type of gamer they intend to attract' as you are expecting a different game than what exists.<br /><br />Blizzard's optimal action would be to attract as many paying customers as possible. Is their devaluation of older content and focus on endgame progress for all players, both hardcore and casual, achieving this goal?Taemojitsuhttp://daughterofankh.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-87833119343608177142010-02-16T03:54:30.288+01:002010-02-16T03:54:30.288+01:00I'm sad to see that most of the discussion her...I'm sad to see that most of the discussion here is about the technical aspects of filtering/scanning/etc. when there was a very insightful comment earlier about the tax issues involved. It really helped me to understand why Blizzard might be reluctant to offer RMT.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-14812214485518545272010-02-16T01:31:57.250+01:002010-02-16T01:31:57.250+01:00A lot of you are realy missing the point here, it&...A lot of you are realy missing the point here, it's not nesessary to make it imposible for goldsellers, it's enough to increase the cost of their operations to the point where it exceeds the income from it, when goldselling is no longer profitable it goes away on it's own.<br />This could easily be achieved with the following methods.<br /><br />1:When players report spam, it's read by a blizzard employee, it takes him/her less than 10 secunds to click a button and ban the acount. When they only get to spam their add once for each acount (provided it gets reported), costs will increase.<br /><br />2:To make step 1 more effective, Make specific servers for those who don't have wrath. That way goldsellers have to buy both expansions to spam more than 5% of the players.<br />Buying theese acounts will soon be expensive.<br /><br />3:Treat all who spam with links to phisihing sites as goldsellers trying to hack acounts, use same strategy as above. When someone spams; see the warcraft movie for free at www.wowmovie.tk or some message about blizzards pet/mount test. ban their acount imediately, and also ban anyone who impersonates a GM, as hackers often do that to.<br /><br />This would would hit the goldsellers where it hurts, their wallets. As thei are dependant of in game advertising to make profit, remove that, and the problem goes away.<br />Stopping goldfarmers from botting is hard, but with my strategy it's not needed, as it's irrelevant how much gold they farm when they can't sell any.<br /><br />PS: If players who report 100 goldseller get a guard dog pet, a police chopper mount for reporting 500 or something 60% atlest will report every goldseller they see.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-24050941411951953532010-02-15T23:43:29.792+01:002010-02-15T23:43:29.792+01:00I think Blizzard is trying hard to fight the bots ...I think Blizzard is trying hard to fight the bots and gold sellers. I have not seen the corpse campers in a while.<br /><br />Report it to Blizzard.<br /><br />Sometimes I ignore the bot in BG but what I should do is report it, each and every time I see a gold seller or bot.<br /><br />The other thing is for players to protect their account from being compromised for these purposes.Jujeehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11075945120950670714noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-34861869559388175072010-02-15T23:11:29.234+01:002010-02-15T23:11:29.234+01:00@Drew
Then you have never programmed on a mainfra...@Drew<br /><br />Then you have never programmed on a mainframe.<br /><br />Main frame applications are rock solid if the development life cycle was done properly.<br /><br />Developing on any closed system is rock solid if done correctly in the first place. Server side development is a closed system as you control both the development and production environments.<br /><br />We're not talking about protocol hacking, nothing of the like. We are talking about how the server handles clients in general.<br /><br />The server is already filtering through packets, that is network 101. For instance, commands, type /camp (a good old one), or any / commands. The server have to keep an eye out on those.<br /><br />When scanning potentially large chat messages, it is not hard, nor cpu intensive to do if the shard's network code is multithreaded. Weed out the crap before it even hits the server core.<br /><br />North America servers should only allow North America IP ranges to log in. Granted, a lot of criminals uses NA proxies to login. This part is simple, use the socket's thread to use on of the MANY proxy reverse services to see if it's a proxy IP, if so, ban it (if not already banned).<br /><br />^^ The above is simple, light on resources, cheap, etc, etc. Very simple to implement, with a very huge effect on criminals.<br /><br />You want me to write out everything? No thanks, why spend time writing on this blog when nothing happens ...Shannarahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05700293580839115132noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-63452149938845220132010-02-15T22:17:03.469+01:002010-02-15T22:17:03.469+01:00Maybe they allow gold selling because they are not...Maybe they allow gold selling because they are not M&S?<br /><br />I mean if they are making more money off it than if they actively going round cancelling accounts left right and centre then good for them. It doesn't really bother people with an authenticator and spam filter, unless they're going round and stealing your nodes or whatever (I thought farming was against the goblin-ish religion?), and surely making more money is the goblin thing to do?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-72879850926205419112010-02-15T20:35:41.699+01:002010-02-15T20:35:41.699+01:00@Shannara
You hit the nail on the head, as a fello...@Shannara<br /><i>You hit the nail on the head, as a fellow programmer, I know for a fact that the gold farmers / sellers can be stopped without impacting the regular players.</i><br /><br />As a programmer you should you should never speak in absolutes. More often then not there are unforeseen bugs and errors.<br /><br />The fact is security is hard. The whole article is missing this point. It's like saying Microsoft wants your computer to be hack ed because they could without a doubt stop it. Programmers build software to work. Hackers look at software to break it. <br /><br />Blaming Blizz for the problem really short sighted. "Why don't they just stop all the email spam and phishing sites?" "Why do websites have exploits?" The fact is major security companies have spent billions of dollars and countless years trying to solve a problem that is impossible to solve. It's ever evolving once you fix one problem there are 10 more just behind it. You are never "done" plugging holes. The bad guys will always find a work around.Drewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06807306691606227149noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-29495457290023070832010-02-15T19:39:06.654+01:002010-02-15T19:39:06.654+01:00I think you need to re-examine the measures you wi...I think you need to re-examine the measures you wish to take Gevlon as this is starting to look like a DRM argument. In DRM (Digital Rights Management) the game studio or movie studio wishes to take harsher and harsher technological measures to ensure their movie or game cannot be pirated. In the end it's always the valid customers who suffer. The pirates will defeat the DRM and be unbothered by it in much the same way the people who really want RMT will still go to ige or similar and be unbothered by the restrictions being placed on the rest of us. I would warn you to be especially wary of such ideas as the restrictions you would place on the trial as that is the easiest way for Blizzard to continue to replace leaving players and bring new people into the game. If one cannot get a realistic feeling for all aspects of the game during the 10 day trial how would one make the decision of whether to buy the game and pay for a few months?! In the end how would you handle a random catcha slowing down your own gold gathering empire sir? How would you handle bringing in a friend for a trial only to have them turned off by not being able to see the wonders of Orgrimmar? If the worst we can say about modern day gold sellers are they spam in trade a bit then let them have their own channel! Then they truly will not bother the rest of us and will not hamper our fun :)<br /><br />KleedracKleedrachttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16859595606986243209noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-65244421416395129512010-02-15T19:05:06.159+01:002010-02-15T19:05:06.159+01:00I don't think your last points are valid.
When...I don't think your last points are valid.<br />When I tried LotRO, I really liked the game a lot. But as crafting is a big part of the game for me (I know, maybe I'm just stupid for wanting to be self-sufficient by having all professions in the game maxed, spread over my alts - but it's fun for me)<br /><br />But one of the key points that drove me away from LotRO was that I couldn't use the Auction House or trade materials with other people, so I could <i>try out</i> crafting.<br /><br />Same applies to the level 10 restriction. If I couldn't even go the city and use the AH and stuff, I'd be outNogamarahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16541775026595839236noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-53275395099057027052010-02-15T19:04:25.063+01:002010-02-15T19:04:25.063+01:00@Shannara
"I know for a fact that the gold fa...@Shannara<br /><i>"I know for a fact that the gold farmers / sellers can be stopped without impacting the regular players."</i><br />Since you know this for a fact, please present the evidence that led you to this conclusion. What techniques can be used that won't either<br />a) cost more money than they save in lost revenue or<br />b) be easily defeated?Svenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07968080562561684936noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-1049653803815936332010-02-15T18:56:15.164+01:002010-02-15T18:56:15.164+01:00Gevlon, your "spot the mob" captcha won&...Gevlon, your "spot the mob" captcha won't work very well. Most bots are run in large farms with a human supervisor. All he has to do is look at the screens once in a while and when the captcha comes up, click the correct button. He's still effectively running 50+ clients simultaneously at low-skill third world wages.<br /><br />If there's seemingly simple solution to a problem , the first question you should ask is "how could this possibly go wrong?"Svenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07968080562561684936noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-69761569919938787522010-02-15T18:45:40.760+01:002010-02-15T18:45:40.760+01:00You hit the nail on the head, as a fellow programm...You hit the nail on the head, as a fellow programmer, I know for a fact that the gold farmers / sellers can be stopped without impacting the regular players.<br /><br />We can only guess at the real reasons Blizzard support these kinds of activities. When you get down to it, it is technically easily to fix, so there must be some other motive.Shannarahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05700293580839115132noreply@blogger.com