tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post4180547624527184856..comments2024-02-27T14:44:07.868+01:00Comments on Greedy goblin: Oh noes we must produce all that we spend!Gevlonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07072766785893313616noreply@blogger.comBlogger40125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-3847112127385654082012-03-17T16:32:51.898+01:002012-03-17T16:32:51.898+01:00If there's to be a discussion of ISK sources/s...If there's to be a discussion of ISK sources/sinks, knowing the magnitudes may help<br /><br /><br />Item Source/Sink Monthly Amount<br />Wormhole blue books Source $10,430,000,000,000<br />Incursions Rewards Source $8,566,015,400,900<br />Mission Rewards Source $2,470,815,985,076<br />Misson Bonuses Source $2,346,410,541,970<br />Insurance Payouts Source $3,366,455,121,035<br />Insurance Costs Sink -$1,618,888,782,680<br />NPC Bounties Source $32,083,329,999,805<br />NPC Sell Orders Sink -$13,000,000,000,000<br />Transaction Taxes* Sink -$2,375,100,000,000<br />Broker Fees* Sink -$2,607,100,000,000<br />LP Store* Sink -$6,331,570,000,000<br />PI Construction* Sink -$627,850,000,000<br />Clones* Sink -$910,600,000,000<br />Office Rental* Sink -$488,650,000,000<br />War Fees* Sink -$149,350,000,000<br />Repair Bills* Sink -$287,100,000,000<br />PI NPC Taxes* Sink -$741,820,000,000<br />Sov Bills* Sink -$809,100,000,000<br />Contract Brokers Fee* Sink -$301,600,000,000<br />Contract Sales Tax* Sink -$324,800,000,000<br /><br />the formatting is likely terrible, here is the source http://twostep4csm.blogspot.com/2012/03/its-econmony-stupid.htmlAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-60314713212700971232012-03-17T10:22:13.535+01:002012-03-17T10:22:13.535+01:00Misson runners are not the main ISK pump in game. ...Misson runners are not the main ISK pump in game. Ratting in 0.0 is. Here is the math:<br /><br />If you look at the link provided by one of your readers - http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/QEN/QEN_Q4-2010.pdf on page 19 you see that the biggest isk pump in the game is Bounty prizes. This include misson bounty and ratting bounty. Let's try to separate them.<br /><br />Look what a lvl 4 misson gives you - Intercept The Saboteurs, level 4. Some numbers:<br /><br />- 1.5 million in reward (with the time bonus included)<br />- 3.3 million in bounties<br />- 3700 LP<br />- 2-3 million in loot (rough approximation)<br />- 1-2 million in salvage (rough approximation)<br /><br />The ratio bounties to reward is 3.3/1.5 = 2.2 . But there are missions with better ratio so let's put some margin and claim that the medium ratio is much higher - 3 or 3.5 maybe. This means that you get three to three and a half times more ISK from bounties in mission than from the reward.<br /><br />Now look back to the graph on page 19. Green+Pink block gives mission reward+time reward and it is 4 trillion, more or less. Bounties are from 24 at the start to 28 at the end of the period with NO INCREASE in mission rewards.<br /><br />So the ratio bounties to rewards in the CCP graph is 24/4 = 6. All the difference comes from 0.0 ratters, the "hardcore" players. And most interestingly, the December graph shows that Bounties rise dramatically with almost zero increase in mission+time reward.<br /><br />Conclusion is simple - in order to reduce ISK generated in the game you must reduce (or remove) bounties in 0.0 and missions, nothing more! If the bar that represents bounty prizes is the same as the commodity bar you will have a very stable ISK flow with minimal inflation.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-60815516403722890962012-03-17T06:29:01.167+01:002012-03-17T06:29:01.167+01:00My gift ISK rots in my wallet and will going to gi...My gift ISK rots in my wallet and will going to gift away (probably to my girlfriend if she hooks up on the game), exactly because I want to prove that one can trade himself up.<br /><br /><br />@Casares: that's exactly what I'm planning, read Tuesday post. It will also post evidence (not ideas but data) that proves both that we have high inflation and it's the mission runners doing.<br /><br />However it's a threadmill, I have to trade not to get more rich but to stay the same rich because they constantly get welfare.Gevlonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07072766785893313616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-78552367133849646822012-03-17T05:35:28.413+01:002012-03-17T05:35:28.413+01:00I hear people go the other way, also, that our eco...I hear people go the other way, also, that our economy will collapse so badly that we will not be able to live indoors, will not have any food, etc. Maybe this is possible whose economy only depends on trade and not production. Even in a country like the U.S. where much is imported, there is also much production. What I am saying, is where there is farming, construction, mining, trees to make wood out of, etc. and there is technologies to make factories, and workers, there will always be a base for a decent standard of living with food, shelter, running water, etc. Of course people are brainwashed into thinking they need much more than that. Already economic conditions show people you don't need 2 cellphones with internet, 200 television channels, and air conditioning running all day. One thing I cannot stand is people running around saying 'the sky is falling' type of comments. But this should not be excuse for accumulating large debt either.Yagglehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15177750815584983551noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-13600265576277863972012-03-17T02:42:56.728+01:002012-03-17T02:42:56.728+01:00@Buggrit CCP is quite good about being open. The ...@Buggrit CCP is quite good about being open. The last numbers I saw is that the average time in game was 7 to 8 months. So a stable population of 375k people would mean about 50k are leaving every month; on average one player leaves EVE every minute.<br /><br />----<br /><br />Back before the hard times hit, CCP could afford to spend more $ on their QEN. <br /> <br />http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/QEN/QEN_Q4-2010.pdf<br /> on page 19 shows the ISK faucets and sinks with numbers.<br /><br />Obviously, if skill books and BPOs are going to be sold in unlimited quantity, there will need to be something artifically creating ISK that will pump new currency into the game. Since LP is an ISK sink, your and Kobeathris plan would further disrupt the economy without something, somewhere creating ISK from thin air.<br /><br />---------<br /><br />How does your "I want all activities removed that give reward for just spending time with no skill or competition." benefit CCP? You want them to spend development resources to lower their income and profits?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-89937085103742246522012-03-17T01:36:09.856+01:002012-03-17T01:36:09.856+01:00Also, please realize that a large chunk of new ISK...Also, please realize that a large chunk of new ISK comes from 0.0 welfare faucets like ratting, mining in equivalent high sec, plexing. All of which are done in almost perfect safety. Lowsec is not nullsec, it's frequently safer than highsec.Cyras DeValerahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07896093755046808587noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-32410918309627714932012-03-16T23:48:52.440+01:002012-03-16T23:48:52.440+01:00Another point I'd like to raise:
It is very t...Another point I'd like to raise:<br /><br />It is very true that in WoW M&S made life harder on everyone, as you so amply described.<br /><br />In EVE, though, besides inflation, do you find them offensive? I find them amusing.<br /><br />Well, except when the alliance is full with them and you can't get a station with 50 people to turn out 10 ships to scare off a roam band of 5-6.buggritnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-31219012104560368332012-03-16T23:45:30.875+01:002012-03-16T23:45:30.875+01:00Gevlon,
Its not the mission runners, well, there&...Gevlon,<br /><br />Its not the mission runners, well, there's more money with the incursions but not just that. There's a real imbalance in the drone regions due to war, which were supplying the game with minerals.<br />Also the current huge production of supercaps, new (glass-hulled) BCs and the carnage of war drove up demand. They are less expensive so a lot more get shot up than with T2.<br />Trouble in drone regions = bots have problems = less production of minerals = ship prices raise.<br />When low-level mods started to appear less, their recycling ended - so less minerals.<br /><br />Something much like that will happen when drones start giving money, as CCP said. Less minerals AND more money is a recipe for inflation.<br /><br />Regarding the plebs: they supply the market with salvage (for rigs), and mods taken from missions.<br /><br />There really should be some more money sinks, though, its unbalanced, and a long term problem. Plexes have gone up steadily.Buggritnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-60630397647212708112012-03-16T23:37:02.065+01:002012-03-16T23:37:02.065+01:00"My dream ship, the Charon freighter increase..."My dream ship, the Charon freighter increased its price by 150M in the last month. The mission runners took away 150M from me in one month."<br /><br />Have you actually bothered to check the 1 year chart? Charon prize is rising since early dec 2011 while it was basically constant before. I have no idea what causes the sudden prize increase, but blaiming mission runners on it sounds really stupid.<br /><br />I have created my main char in dec 2004 (!!). And while I have only played a fraction of that time (I have sp worth roughly 2 years training) I can gurantee you that the inflation in EVE is NOT 15% per month. You are really blowing the impact mission runners have out of propotion.<br /><br />Also: your own comment to Caramael applies: if the total amount of isk increases, then all prizes go up and you should make more money from your own activities as well.Casareshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13249710794838561664noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-64434420938238886292012-03-16T23:36:07.119+01:002012-03-16T23:36:07.119+01:00Wait just a sec. You got over 500 million ISK from...Wait just a sec. You got over 500 million ISK from gifts, which I presume you, as a good goblin, reinvested in the market, making more money in the process. <br /><br />I'm not doubting that you are able to make a lot of ISK in very short time, but you must acknoledge that a part of this billion ISK in 1 month as a newbie is due to those gifts, gifts that the vast majority of newbies don't usually get.<br /><br />Unless you let that 1/2 billion ISK gathering mold in your wallet. If that is the case, your financial feat is even more impressive.P.A.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-77948987044647018292012-03-16T22:14:38.214+01:002012-03-16T22:14:38.214+01:00@Casares: I want all activities removed that give ...@Casares: I want all activities removed that give reward for just spending time with no skill or competition. It's not so much to ask, mining, is pretty simple yet it's competitive with other miners and pirates.<br /><br />Also, the mission runners harm me by inflating my ISK away. My dream ship, the Charon freighter increased its price by 150M in the last month. The mission runners took away 150M from me in one month.Gevlonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07072766785893313616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-30851348622550607152012-03-16T21:03:04.323+01:002012-03-16T21:03:04.323+01:00To get started:
EVE is about spaceship combat. Pe...To get started:<br /><br />EVE is about spaceship combat. Period.<br /><br />Anything else is side activity. Be that trading, hauling, mining, industry or research. It speaks for EVE's complexity that those branches are interesting enough for a minority to make it the main game. But at its heart it's about space combat.<br /><br />That alone makes your approach already non-viable for the vast majority of players.<br /><br />Now about combat pilots: there are two kinds:<br /><br />1. Those who like pvp.<br />2. Those who do not like pvp.<br /><br />If you accept player type 2 in this game, then there must be pve content. And it must be more than starter missions. Yet Pvp players will _always_ label pve content as "welfare, no matter how hard it is. <br /><br />You seem so proud of The Pug's pve achivement ... yet, from a 2600 rating arena player your epics are nothing more than welfare.<br /><br />You can of course with good arguments claim that EVE is about pvp space combat and that pve players have no place in this game. So why should you accept them as part of this game?<br /><br />a. Business. The pve players make up a large portion of the playerbase (> 50% by all I know). Removing the pve content will _not_ push them to do pvp (bar a neglible minorty) but to leave the game. CCP won't do that. Nor do I really think the pvp players want that, as it means half the money for CCP too maintain this game.<br /><br />b. They do not harm you! I have said this before: if interaction with with pve players annoys you so much that you rather remove high-sec altogether, then simply move to low/null sec. And if the mere existance of pve players (even though you have zero contact with them) still annoys you, then I'd question who the social person is here.Casareshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13249710794838561664noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-65924655843474280642012-03-16T20:53:27.025+01:002012-03-16T20:53:27.025+01:00You say "The social people find it obvious th...You say "<i>The social people find it obvious that they do some silly task for an NPC and it rewards them with items or that they kill some NPC and loot the item. Where did the item come from?</i>"<br /><br />It comes from work life. The NPC is their boss. They do their silly task and loot their pay checks. Most people aren't asked or expected to come up with ways to make money in their day-to-day work. They're just asked to kiss or kick the right ass. They don't care about creating value because they have no direct link to it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-12095669428784892932012-03-16T20:34:14.028+01:002012-03-16T20:34:14.028+01:00I must admit I don't realy know anymore what y...I must admit I don't realy know anymore what you really want and what exactly your post today and the once preceeding it (carebears and bots) is about to tell me.<br /><br />Do you just want the isk reward removed from missions?<br />Do you want all missions removed (bar some newbie missions)?<br />Do you want all isk faucets removed?<br />Do you want all activities removed that reward time spend more than anything else?<br />Do you want high-sec to be removed entirely?<br /><br />There are so many things I disagree with you or that I think are outright false, I really don't know where to start.<br /><br />Plus: if you _really_ don't understand what Azuriel is saying then I kinda doubt it's even worth argueing.Casareshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13249710794838561664noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-19960896850635819332012-03-16T19:41:06.944+01:002012-03-16T19:41:06.944+01:00Another isk sink is holding sovAnother isk sink is holding sovAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-9458336291135078972012-03-16T18:33:56.032+01:002012-03-16T18:33:56.032+01:00@Gevlon
Isk Faucets:
NPC Buy Orders for Sleeper C...@Gevlon<br /><br />Isk Faucets:<br />NPC Buy Orders for Sleeper Components<br />Mission Rewards (Isk or items)<br />NPC Bounties<br />Insurance<br />Faction Warfare Rewards (Isk or items)<br /><br />Isk Sinks:<br />NPC Sold Skillbooks<br />Market Transaction Taxes<br />Market Broker Fees<br />BPOs<br />Items Bought via License Points<br />Manufacturing slot rental fees<br />Insurance<br />Clone purchasesAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-29955199948568525302012-03-16T17:26:25.863+01:002012-03-16T17:26:25.863+01:00@IO: BPO is true
Plex is NOT. When plex is destroy...@IO: BPO is true<br />Plex is NOT. When plex is destroyed, a plex is destroyed and not ISK. If I buy a plex for 500M and I get shot down, my 500M is still at the sellers wallet.Gevlonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07072766785893313616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-78620801115089932242012-03-16T16:14:41.925+01:002012-03-16T16:14:41.925+01:00Gevlon, 2 corrections:
1) 2 major NPC ISK sinks a...Gevlon, 2 corrections:<br /><br />1) 2 major NPC ISK sinks are skillbooks are BPOs. BPOs are usually bought not by newbies.<br />2) PLEX sometimes destroys ISK, when PLEX is destroyed. http://massively.joystiq.com/2010/08/08/eve-player-destroys-over-1000-worth-of-game-time/IOnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-32537859881441497262012-03-16T15:30:10.210+01:002012-03-16T15:30:10.210+01:00But what business would say; Gee I want to limit m...But what business would say; Gee I want to limit my potential sales by restricting it"?<br /><br />Your ideas might work in a non-business world but companies are in business to make money. There are more M&S dollars then dolalrs from goblins who don't want to spend money anyway.Goodmongohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10116895654322387056noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-61122956027348872492012-03-16T14:53:01.942+01:002012-03-16T14:53:01.942+01:00The first and only question is, where does the mon...The first and only question is, where does the money people spend come from? It doesn't come from selling stuff, since those people got money from somewhere else.<br /><br />Find the true source of the ISK and then figure out what systems need to stick around for you to continue your travels making money. Is it the carebear stuff putting money into the system or is it nullsec?<br /><br />Using WoW, since most people are familiar with it. Daily quests both caused and "solved" the problem of inflation. Solved in the sense that people are able to game the system and "catch up" to the stupidly high bar of prices.Asmirothhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09769824275250465235noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-12758579248993753152012-03-16T14:49:51.501+01:002012-03-16T14:49:51.501+01:00Always a little amused that so many people think t...Always a little amused that so many people think that the way to 'fix' games with pvp-aspects is to force pve players out of their preferred gameplay so the pvp players have more victims to abuse. :o<br /><br />Absolutely agree that mining could use some more interactivity.<br /><br />I find pvp boring because it has such fixed outcomes. Either I die and go replace my stuff, or I win and someone I don't know and couldn't care less about has to go replace his stuff. Boring.<br /><br />While much of the pve content can be so exciting! Every time I kill a guristas, will it drop just 100 hybrid ammo or maybe some rare meta 3-4 item I haven't seen before! XD Every time I scan down a radar or mag site, it can yield just crap or really neat stuff. Every wormhole I find could send me somewhere I can explore and find more stuff to search for. Combat sites have the potential to escalate and send you across the galaxy, to a rare and unique reward. PvE allows for a much greater range of outcomes, so gives a much greater sense of motivation to seek those outcomes and reward when you achieve them.<br /><br />Gevlon, in your trading the best outcome available is that you make a lot of isk. For what purpose? Do you want to buy a big player owned structure and live in a wormhole? Do you want to own one of every item and ship? Do you want to bribe people to participate in odd social experiments? <br /><br />Having money by itself is a boring goal. Like you said, anyone can get money by doing pretty much anything. I understand you want to 'fix' that so that it's harder to get money, so your efforts feel more rewarding, but perhaps instead you should simply expand your goals to something that isn't the easiest and simplest thing to do in the game.Michaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09827557339032342430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-90105292768952754892012-03-16T14:43:16.980+01:002012-03-16T14:43:16.980+01:00Right. Let players produce the skillbooks.
I do th...Right. Let players produce the skillbooks.<br />I do think that would force a huge part of new players back towards mining though. And iirc this used to be a major complaint ("booooring") about EVE by new players.Caramaelnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-88316422330577938292012-03-16T14:39:37.899+01:002012-03-16T14:39:37.899+01:00@Dangphat: wrong, Plex don't destroy ISK.
Ple...@Dangphat: wrong, Plex don't destroy ISK.<br /><br />Plex is created when you pay money to CPP. Then you trade Plex for ISK. The ISK remains in the playerbase, just in the hand of other player.Gevlonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07072766785893313616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-5918475546876963742012-03-16T14:32:02.344+01:002012-03-16T14:32:02.344+01:00It depends on PLEX/ISK market, as if more ISK is b...It depends on PLEX/ISK market, as if more ISK is being destroyed by this market then ISK will dry up unless there is a ISK source like missions and bounties.Dangphathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00767725815265858008noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-18447840600305240662012-03-16T14:24:44.112+01:002012-03-16T14:24:44.112+01:00@Caramael: the ISK is mostly used for player-playe...@Caramael: the ISK is mostly used for player-player transactions. So if you'd remove half of the ISK overnight, everything would go on the same way, just at half price.<br /><br />The only place where significant player-NPC ISK transfer happens is skillbook selling, which mostly affects newbies, the ones who are the original targets of missions. See the obvious solution for that?Gevlonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07072766785893313616noreply@blogger.com