tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post3178654689207809807..comments2024-02-27T14:44:07.868+01:00Comments on Greedy goblin: Trump/Sanders and the Maslow pyramidGevlonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07072766785893313616noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-48864933698307278392016-11-23T10:25:14.206+01:002016-11-23T10:25:14.206+01:00You guys are still trying to rationalize and talk ...You guys are still trying to rationalize and talk about small details.<br /><br />Gevlon just described you the elephant in the room standing next to the table, and you are trying your best to ignore that and whining about sagging floor boards next to that table.<br /><br />Elephant being that while you are feeling fine at the top of the pyramid, HALF of the americans felt offed by democrats and Mrs Clinton and a huge chunk of Americans are struggling at the top of the pyramid.<br /><br />And somehow all those low income fellow americans are nonissue to democrats, who prefer to rush to help syrian refugees and illegal immigrants instead on EXPENSE of those americans at the bottom of pyramid, raising crime rates on their living areas, where YOU dont have to live and increasing unemployment rates/lowering wages.<br /><br />Syrian refugees should be helped, but in areas of their culture where it would be more successful and less expensive - meaning you can help MORE of them.<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-70778465553583327902016-11-23T10:23:49.489+01:002016-11-23T10:23:49.489+01:00As Azuriel have points out, Maslow is very simplif...As Azuriel have points out, Maslow is very simplified model of reality that can produce approximate generalisations at best. That is worth considering when trying to analyse an election where a 2% swing would have resulting in discussions on a Republican thrashing and US political institutions that are robust with voters that punish candidates who undermine political norms and violate standards of decency.<br />The lesson to take from this vote and many others around the world is that there is a significant portion of the population that has seen its economic well-being stagnate/decline over the last 10-20-30 years and feels under threat from liberal globalisation. The election outcome is irrelevance to that conclusion.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-19186865703646104182016-11-23T01:17:34.309+01:002016-11-23T01:17:34.309+01:00@Gevlon
From this base, Trump's results are l...@Gevlon<br /><br /><i>From this base, Trump's results are landslide.</i><br /><br />No, we don't see that at all. Clinton got 231,740 less votes in Wisconsin than Obama, but Trump only gained, literally, 721 more than Romney. Trump did "awaken" more in Pennsylvania and Michigan (293,358 and 167,132 respectively) than Romney, but not in any way suggestive that he lured Obama supporters over. And, again, the ultimate difference were 107,108 in those three states.<br /><br />What it is likely to come down to, in the final analysis, is the fact that the margins in these three states are considerably lower than the amount of 3rd-party votes there. The margin in Wisconsin in particular is below the amount of Jill Stein votes, let alone Johnson. Pennsylvania had 190k 3rd-party votes with the margin being less than 70k. I'm not saying all of those would have voted for Clinton had it been a head-to-head competition. But I think this election was close enough to confound any attempts at drawing some kind of grand, Maslow narrative about the working class rising up.Azurielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16581263347888757710noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-82944514105846272342016-11-22T17:17:12.996+01:002016-11-22T17:17:12.996+01:002016 estimate population of US 324m. how many are ...2016 estimate population of US 324m. how many are eligible voters? (my google fu ended in "not that easy (couple minutes) to pull that data")<br />how many voted 125m (62m+63m)? 125m < 199m even if there are 100m not eligible. the third none-candidate campaigned and won in a massive landslide out of the three, with "you politician fucks .. do what ever, I don't care. leave me alone with your charade."<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-81202058432512045502016-11-22T14:38:36.338+01:002016-11-22T14:38:36.338+01:00@Jim L: we don't know that. That's why tal...@Jim L: we don't know that. That's why talking about popularity vote is stupid. We have no idea about the results of a popularity vote election. Gevlonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07072766785893313616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-53897201825960187132016-11-22T14:26:16.116+01:002016-11-22T14:26:16.116+01:00There are millions of Trump supporters who didn...There are millions of Trump supporters who didn't bother to vote? How do you know this? Do you think there are millions of Hillary voters who didn't vote because their vote didn't matter?<br /><br />As for the US debt, it is large in absolute terms, but not all that big in percentage of GDP. There are lots of countries that are worse. Especially since the US economy is one of the most dynamic in the world.Jim Lhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12370082357855488637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-44604571372417333092016-11-22T14:14:14.693+01:002016-11-22T14:14:14.693+01:00Don't like Maslow. It presupposes a bit too mu...Don't like Maslow. It presupposes a bit too much.<br /><br />Put simply, a lot of people escape from issues on lower levels to the upper levels (which is essentially what the loudest Clinton proponents did). Also a lot of high level people are much more interested in solving low level issues because they understand that you can't have decent high lvl without having good low lvl.<br /><br />The consideration that for a long time many US presidents campaigned for what is in reality the "world president" is interesting. Given the extent to which current US capitalisation relies on the world carrying its money there, i don't find it at all surprising.maximhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12576542229498004147noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-2542929237026242102016-11-22T11:25:32.701+01:002016-11-22T11:25:32.701+01:00@Azuriel
There are millions of Trump supporters i...@Azuriel<br /><br />There are millions of Trump supporters in California and NY who simply didn't bother voting. Those two massive states provided Clinton with most of her popular vote "win".<br /><br />As for Trump and his economic future: don't expect miracles. With the amount of debt the US have, he is more likely than not to have a serious currency or inflation crisis in his first term. Which will be none of his fault, as the basis of it are reaching Reagan and were only made worse with every subsequent government.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12872490585163531909noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-44150836361127806192016-11-22T10:12:55.509+01:002016-11-22T10:12:55.509+01:00As Bill Clinton once said, "It's the econ...As Bill Clinton once said, "It's the economy, stupid." Concerns about the economy cover level 1 and 2 needs and is a primary decision factor for voters that are not financially secure. In the UK our Conservative party has a reputation for being better economic caretakers. Political shorthand is that we elect Conservatives when times are tough and replace them with Labour when things get better.<br /><br />@Gevlon I expect Trump to pause on new treaties and attempt to tinker with some pre-existing ones but mass withdrawal would be painful. Established industries have a huge competitive advantage because they have built up a supply chain, support networks and local infrastructure. Once lost they are very hard (expensive) to re-gain and it is the US consumer that will end up paying a huge premium in the short-term.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-40962889490495192882016-11-22T08:12:01.076+01:002016-11-22T08:12:01.076+01:00@Azuriel:
Wisconsin 2012
Barack Obama Dem. 1,613,...@Azuriel: <br />Wisconsin 2012<br />Barack Obama Dem. 1,613,950<br />Mitt Romney Rep. 1,408,746<br /><br />Pennsylvania 2012<br />Barack Obama Dem. 2,907,448<br />Mitt Romney Rep. 2,619,583<br /><br />Michigan 2012<br />Barack Obama Dem 2,561,911<br />M. Romney GOP 2,112,673<br /><br />From this base, Trump's results are landslide. The popular vote is irrelevant, since https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/798519600413601792<br /><br />Kicking the economic treaties would surely help the US workers, we can argue how much (a single robot maintenance guy is more jobs than zero). The question is if he dares/wants to kick them.Gevlonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07072766785893313616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-45066398174331380122016-11-22T06:11:13.288+01:002016-11-22T06:11:13.288+01:00It's a bit silly talking about "the Ameri...It's a bit silly talking about "the American people" in broad, sweeping terms with this election. You like numbers, so look at them:<br /><br />-Wisconsin: 27,257 for Trump.<br />-Pennsylvania: 68,236 for Trump.<br />-Michigan (still not called): 11,612 for Trump.<br />-Popular vote: +1,598,268 for Clinton thus far.<br /><br />Those are the margins as of today. This wasn't some kind of broad-natured mandate on the part of the working poor - this was a strategic, Electoral College victory. Or hubris on Clinton's side regarding the "firewall," take your pick. If the above three states were more in line with Ohio (+455k for Trump), then you might have a point. As it stands, when the difference between two entirely different visions of America can comfortably fit inside a single football stadium, it's time to reexamine the narrative. The election went the way it did because 107,108 people were in the right states, and 1,598,268 people were in the wrong ones.<br /><br />In any case, if you're surprised Trump isn't "draining the swamp," yet... buckle up. We'll see how low on the pyramid we can go once we start pulling out of economic treaties and starting trade wars with zero organized labor and complete automation keeping the blue collars hungry.Azurielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16581263347888757710noreply@blogger.com