tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post269589265485952528..comments2024-02-27T14:44:07.868+01:00Comments on Greedy goblin: Milking morons reloadedGevlonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07072766785893313616noreply@blogger.comBlogger35125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-57053150153634510142009-05-16T20:36:00.000+02:002009-05-16T20:36:00.000+02:00Thank you for the enlightening post!
It makes m...Thank you for the enlightening post! <br /><br />It makes me feel like a moron, though, for some recent decisions I made:<br /><br />1) I recently graduated Summa Cum Laude with a degree in marketing and am now earning a very comfortable salary for a Fortune 500 company doing challenging and interesting work. But you're right. I should have stuck with my initial engineering major, despite hating the subject and forcing myself to stick with it for those 1st two years of college. I've got more income than I need now, but I was a moron not to try to get more. I could handle being miserable 60-80 hours a week for the potential extra income. I'm just a 3rd class moron. But no more. I turned in my resignation yesterday and will be returning to school to finish my engineering degree.<br /><br />2) Just one week before my 1st paycheck at my new job, flatscreen TVs went on sale at Best Buy for 25% off for the weekend only. I had already budgeted to buy the same model after receiving my paycheck (after having allocated 25% of the paycheck to living expenses, 30% to taxes, and 40% to savings/investments). To take advantage of the discount, I took out a consumer loan at 25% APR, with no prepayment penalty to purchase the TV (i.e. I purchased it on my credit card, which I pay off in full each month to avoid paying any interest). I'm embarrassed to admit that after reading your post, I realize I was a 2nd class moron. I should have waited until I actually had the money in hand, paying full price for the TV instead of taking a loan at such a ridiculously high interest rate. But no more. I have canceled my credit cards and will now only use cash to make purchases. <br /><br />3) Your third example of stupidity really hurt, because shortly after moving into my new apartment, I decided to make a favorite balsamic salad dressing. Not having any balsamic vinegar on hand after my recent move, I purchased a 0.5L bottle of it at the supermarket. The bottle fits into the limited space I have in my apartment kitchen and has lasted up to a year at the rate I consume it. However, you are right! I was a 1st class moron! I have now purchased a 20L barrel of the very same vinegar for only 75% of the price per liter! I have had to remove all the shelves and clothes from a closet to store the barrel, but I won't need to buy any more vinegar for the next 40 years! I have resolved to no longer buy any food ingredients in retail-sized containers. However, I'm having trouble figuring out how to make use of the savings to rent a larger apartment with more storage space. Any ideas?Moronnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-15402678122237229672009-05-15T14:29:00.000+02:002009-05-15T14:29:00.000+02:00What if the guy you call an idiot enjoys 1 hour of...What if the guy you call an idiot enjoys 1 hour of farming elementals more than 10 min at the AH and has more money than he needs. Doesn't sound so idiotic to me for him to do what he enjoys the most.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-33253734756432414822009-05-15T13:15:00.001+02:002009-05-15T13:15:00.001+02:00previous comment should be on your other post (/fa...previous comment should be on your other post (/facepalm) sorry, delete these two if you wantSethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03762002397586862820noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-37351479995948912942009-05-15T13:15:00.000+02:002009-05-15T13:15:00.000+02:00good writing, and gz wit h the epics ;)
sorry for ...good writing, and gz wit h the epics ;)<br />sorry for the short comment, (at work)<br /><br />grtz<br />SethSethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03762002397586862820noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-39704388106857154502009-05-14T22:00:00.000+02:002009-05-14T22:00:00.000+02:00One last thing that I think is missing from Gevlon...One last thing that I think is missing from Gevlon's post is that, while I agree that the people who don't plan ahead are being dumb, I don't always agree with his statement that "those who do something of low profitability instead of a high profitability" are being dumb.<br /><br />Mainly because, while there are some people who mindlessly grind out herbs/ore for less than maximum profit, there are also a number of people who are making a good profit, but are just not playing the same market that you are.<br /><br />Take for example the herbalist/alchemist: This person gathers a bunch of herbs in a zone. Some of these nodes are high profit for him (Eternal Life, Frost Lotus, icethorn/lichbloom) and some are basically useless if you're making money off of selling flasks made in alchemy (tiger lily, deadnettle, goldclover, adder's tongue). The nodes are all mixed together, so you pick everything, make a profit of what you can and sell the rest.<br /><br />Granted you would be able to maximize your profit if you leveled an alt, sunk alot of capital into learning glyphs, and got into that market, but there's still the time investment which may not be worth it since your goal is to get the consumables for raiding and then make a fair amount of gold off the rest. This person may not be aware of how *much* gold could be made by diversifying and processing everything they gather, but they aren't being stupid, in my opinion.MyNamenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-18719424835186393082009-05-14T21:51:00.000+02:002009-05-14T21:51:00.000+02:00@Nils:
>What annoys me is that you frame your ...@Nils:<br /><br />>What annoys me is that you frame your resoning in terms that reinforce the socialist stereotype that making profit by investments is a usless endeavor that merely exploits the poor workers, when in fact the opposite is true.<br /><br />I think you're, again, trying to force Gevlon's viewpoints on capitalism through the lens of some sort of Socialism vs. Industrialism debate. Socialism's most relevant critique of Laissez-faire Capitalism is that Capitalism, in it's purest form, always produces inequality with winners and losers. <br /><br />Apologists for Capitalism have replied that, while this may seem to be true, this is because, 1) All people are not equally capable (though it is always best to treat them as equally valuable politically), and 2) That the economy as a whole is always better with capitalists in it than not.<br /><br />Gevlon agrees with this view, he's just playing down the first point because the economy of WoW is simple enough that many people could learn it if they wanted to. This entire post was about how, if people were willing and able to take care of their needs on their own, there wouldn't be as much inequality. But as that is impossible, utopia (at least from capitalism or socialism) is also impossible.MyNamenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-33513865704187770342009-05-14T21:23:00.000+02:002009-05-14T21:23:00.000+02:00@david:
>This statement itself is plain stupid...@david:<br /><br />>This statement itself is plain stupid. The more I read about your philosophy and rationalization the more I realize how you try so hard to sound intelligent when in actuality you fail.<br /><br />Well that's nice, and if you actually could point out something to support your crude generalizations (besides "you're stupid and fail"), you might not sound like a 9 year old kid who's snuck onto his dad's computer.MyNamenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-31294872718242350622009-05-14T21:21:00.000+02:002009-05-14T21:21:00.000+02:00David, it's not so much moronic to pay to play som...David, it's not so much moronic to pay to play something. There are many more reasons than that why playing WoW is moronic.<br /><br />The game is diabolically designed to get you to do the stupidest, repetitive, unfun crap that passes for content. And yes, that includes playing the AH. Moneymaking in WoW is not an accurate simulation, because too many people do not take it seriously. In the real world, everyone in the business world takes money seriously, or don't stay in business long.Eaten by a Gruehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01741777795065029482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-53768549352049767412009-05-14T21:20:00.000+02:002009-05-14T21:20:00.000+02:00@CheezFry:
Nearly all of the information you need...@CheezFry:<br /><br />Nearly all of the information you need is going to have to be found out by looking at the markets on your own server. So step one: get Auctioneer, even just the basic version, and also "LilSparky's Workshop". Have it scan the AH and then go /afk sandwich for 20 mins until it's done. Repeat over several days. The best way when you're starting out, in my opinion, is just buy cheap herbs like tiger lily and deadnettle and mill them. Otherwise you're just giving your gold to competitors who make a big profit off the ink you buy. There's a macro that will help you mill the herbs pretty easy.<br /><br />On my server, there's a large number, maybe 20 or more, of people who are making money off of glyphs so I tend to put mine up for 24 hours and repost them. By the time your auctions are done, you will probably have been undercut already if there's competition. Since you are starting now, you are already at a disadvantage of people who have maxed inscription, but it's not a big thing.<br /><br />The key to making money off of glyphs on a high pop/established server is to have patterns that the people who just level inscription to make Darkmoon Cards don't have. So do your research (both minor and northrend) everyday. Don't bother buying the new books unless they're very cheap, at least not until you've gotten alot of skill. You will probably not make money off of the glyphs you made while leveling as they suck and everyone has the same patterns. There are certain minor glyphs and a few majors that you learn from research that are always in demand.MyNamenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-28043680504496692392009-05-14T20:34:00.000+02:002009-05-14T20:34:00.000+02:00On the topic of morons... aren't we all considere...On the topic of morons... aren't we all considered to be morons in real life since we pay a subscription every month to play a video game?<br /><br />Who are we all kidding here?Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01088492297121871173noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-49027147157875981282009-05-14T20:31:00.000+02:002009-05-14T20:31:00.000+02:00Gevlon: "The reason of the world not being utopia ...Gevlon: "The reason of the world not being utopia is human stupidity."<br /><br />This statement itself is plain stupid. The more I read about your philosophy and rationalization the more I realize how you try so hard to sound intelligent when in actuality you fail. <br /><br />If I was to sum up the reasoning in which human society is not in "utopia" it would have to be due to selfishness, not stupidity.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01088492297121871173noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-80564409155844427202009-05-14T20:23:00.000+02:002009-05-14T20:23:00.000+02:00Real life goblins milking morons:
People who off...Real life goblins milking morons: <br /><br />People who offer a mobile-text services offering to send a joke to your cellphone every day. (Jokes they found by spending 10 minutes on the web) - and with next to no operating costs.<br />The morons pay a price for this service, a price that wastly outweighs the cost of production + reasonable profit.<br /><br />Ever notice how such services are usually subscribed to by people who are constantly short of cash?<br /><br />Go figure...Narkondasnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-17640426659936317602009-05-14T20:01:00.000+02:002009-05-14T20:01:00.000+02:00The arbitragers... well... I can't come up with an...<I>The arbitragers... well... I can't come up with any use to the world, except taking the money from the most stupid who would waste it anyway.</I>You seem to have forgotten your own post about it.<br />http://greedygoblin.blogspot.com/2009/01/value-of-flipping.html<br /><br />Or have you changed your ideas since then?Carlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08691528306629873885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-8699136738353146882009-05-14T18:25:00.000+02:002009-05-14T18:25:00.000+02:00With this definition of work and play if everythin...With this definition of work and play if everything within WoW is play then there are no morons in the game.Berimmnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-40063669923034195862009-05-14T16:08:00.000+02:002009-05-14T16:08:00.000+02:00I can help with what the "arbitragers" provide. I...I can help with what the "arbitragers" provide. It's not just that they take money from the stupid. It's hard to call that a service, really.<br /><br />The arbitragers increase market efficiency. That is their service.Eaten by a Gruehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01741777795065029482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-15429382314286588052009-05-14T15:14:00.000+02:002009-05-14T15:14:00.000+02:00We should not lose perspective here.
I believe t...We should not lose perspective here. <br /><br />I believe that Gevlon does this for making a point rather than anything else. <br /><br />The problem is real world already has lots of "Inscription" goblins. Think of all the brands who sell their products at inflated prices (just to give one example). Of course it is much more complex. But this is the beauty of wow-economy: that you can notice the same effects you see in real life at a more simplified scale, therefore drawing some interesting parallels and conclusions.<br /><br />Milking of morons happens in real life. Everyday. All the time. This is what brands, advertising, show-biz, mass-media, investment banks etc, are all about. And the list could continue. <br /><br />But besides that I think we should try and keep into perspective the real things discussed in here. Gevlon does it in a large scale. But anyone can do it at the scale they choose. It implies, that a smart player can get more than enough gold pretty easily(with zero dailies or farming time done). It also means that if you are smart, you never have to worry about the chore of making gold and dedicate your time to other aspects of the game. <br /><br />Hell, it also means making gold is fun from the perspective of someone with economic knowledge, and that it's fun to find correlation between real life phenomenon and the in-game market.Quicksilverhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02514588622395952812noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-3851510538207137312009-05-14T14:43:00.000+02:002009-05-14T14:43:00.000+02:00Yey I don`t put faith in the economy.
Economy is n...Yey I don`t put faith in the economy.<br />Economy is not some mystical thing that does not want us to spend, because is all about spending.<br /><br />According to wikipedia, morons are people whit mental retardation, people whit a mental age of between 8 and 12. <br />So "The morons let us goblins be rich.", that means that goblins are the exact opposite to morons. <br /><br />At first , you can read Greedy Goblin as a good guide how to make gold...for..middle class, essentials...etc. But all that can be teached very quickly. Because the market and the economy in WoW does not have that many products and services, and the buyers are spending pixels.<br /><br />From time to time the are some new markets(DKs,Inscription,Mounts,BoE)that people exploit, making more then enough gold. <br /><br /> Of course this pixels mean real time in real life.<br /><br />But arena rating, beign a member of world class guild and other aspects. Are more rewarding then to acquire insane amounts of gold.<br /><br />If you invest all that time, and "experience" in real life should you get the same result?<br /><br />If Gevlon quits wow, and ventures in to making real money, will he find Inscription to milk morons? <br /><br />I think not. There are much more aspects and math in real life. And the proportion of wealth is very different. To acquire a 20k gold mount in real economy is different then to acquire a Kodo. <br /><br />So we better eat our "ice cream" (WoW) from time to time, and spend our time doing something more rewarding.<br /><br />When I first read the last blogs my first thought was about one episode from South Park- Margaritaville ( http://www.southparkstudios.com/episodes/220760). <br /><br />Wealth is not supposed to "create serious problems", and gold/money should not be important, because are just notions that we put our faith inTeruminoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-83864184308379581192009-05-14T14:26:00.000+02:002009-05-14T14:26:00.000+02:00What some commenters missed is that there's a line...What some commenters missed is that there's a line between "fun" and work. If someone finds grinding herbs relaxing, then it doesn't fit Gevlon's definition of work, which is "something you do to be able to afford fun". If someone enjoys grinding while joking around on guildchat/vent, then they're not working, they're having fun (and making money).<br /><br />It's only work if you're doing it because you're like "crap, I want to run heroics, but I need gold to pay for my raid consumables". In that case, you want to minimize your "make gold to buy raid consumables" time, and should look at the grinding/crafting trade-off.<br /><br />kyrilean - Under Gevlon's definition, whether or not you are a moron in that situation depends on whether or not you needed that money for something else. If you have 20k gold lying around and aren't going to have to go out and make that money back in the near future, you're making a logical "gold for time" trade-off. If that dropped you to a level where you need to make that gold back quickly and doing so will take you more than 2 hours, you are (under his definition) a moron.ZachPruckowskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15952603904161496266noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-63608543323026667102009-05-14T14:23:00.000+02:002009-05-14T14:23:00.000+02:00Your post does not take into account gold sellers....Your post does not take into account gold sellers. <br />I could become a Goblin overnight if I paid a gold seller enough money. Then I could look down my nose at the other Goblins who have made their money in-game, and laugh at them for wasting their time.<br /><br />You might then argue that playing the Auction House is as much entertainment/leisure for you as it is work, and I could argue that someone running round Outlands or Northrend collecting herbs could say the same thing.<br /><br />If you don't raid, then your out-going costs in WoW are extremely low; there is no need to work 40 hours to keep a roof over your head and buy warmth/food like there is in real life.<br />You don't have a family to support; your mount, although expensive, will last forever, unlike a car, and you don't have to pay taxes.<br />Unless you are into serious raiding, and are having to spend a lot of money on consumables and repairs, then Fun Time is going to be 95% of your on-line time.<br /><br />Even the poorest 'I need gold for weponz' idiot can survive in WoW without bread or water.*vlad*noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-33677062377367922282009-05-14T13:59:00.000+02:002009-05-14T13:59:00.000+02:00I have a question. I logged early this morning to ...I have a question. I logged early this morning to continue leveling Inscription on my 65 DK. One of two reasons to even do so.<br /><br />The herbs for ink between 150-200 were extremely expensive and sparse. There were not enough to level it entirely, so I grabbed my herbologist and farmed them until I logged off the other night. It wasn't enough to level to 200, but I was close.<br /><br />I chose this morning to pay for the extremely overpriced herbs on the AH and made it to 200. Overall I lost money on mats for what I can sell.<br /><br />Does this make me a moron?<br /><br />Based on your criteria, I'm guessing it does. However, I want to level Inscription as fast as I can and would rather pay outrageous prices on the AH than spend 2 hours farming herbs.<br /><br />So again I ask, does this make me a moron?kyrileanhttp://casualhardcore.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-39509992119633801962009-05-14T13:56:00.000+02:002009-05-14T13:56:00.000+02:00Although I agree to this, I have a question. When ...Although I agree to this, I have a question. When I take your point of view and talk to people, I always end up with this: Some people never got a chance. They grow up with alcoholics as parents, they never learned to listen to their teachers, they never figured out how to get information and cannot recover from this. I then argue that they could ask someone (more intelligent) what to do, because that's what I would do. I get answered: They don't know that they could ask someone. They never tried (and are far too badly educated to try new things).<br /><br />What now?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-89937128788771383442009-05-14T12:33:00.000+02:002009-05-14T12:33:00.000+02:00@Catalin - not sure you quite understand me. I am ...@Catalin - not sure you quite understand me. I am not saying arbitrary that all labor is equal. <br />The brains required for this kind of job and skills are not that high - if you have IQ above 140 and good memory you are good to go as a programmer, surgeon, lawyer. The reason this highly skilled jobs are in such a high demand is not because its that hard, but because lots of people that have the capacity to do them don't develop their potential at the current society. They are M&S. So by scrubbing toilets they do two things - they take money from the cleaners (high supply) and give money to the high skill professionals(reduce supply so they want more money). <br /><br />Now - I grew up in such a way that I was always near the smart people in my country(father scientist, very elite high school)so I may tend to undervalue the smarts a bit. But if you remove the M&S from the job market we will see much higher pay in the low skill jobs and lower in high skills. <br /><br />The problem is the M&S - they disturb the labor market, they finance the next ponzi scheme. So - if you remove them both atlas shrugged and the socialist dreams become true. <br /><br />One of my finest memories is after the fall of the Berlin Wall - a lot of ponzi schemes were developed in my country. Now - when one such scheme collapsed it was common that there was run on the firm that operates it. And some people managed to salvage some of their money. What they did next - gave them to the ponzi that opened on the next side of the street on the same day. We watched with a friend as were only 10 or 11 and it was quite a laugh.Kreeegorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12676160002427456206noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-72433910771024104992009-05-14T11:57:00.001+02:002009-05-14T11:57:00.001+02:00Theres a base-logic here that i just do not agree ...Theres a base-logic here that i just do not agree with. And that is the preassumed notion that people do theese things that arent optimal for making gold are morons. One of your examples I agree with: If you farm A instead of B where B would give a higher profit, you are a "moron". But if someone prefers to grind herbs over playing the AH for whatever reason, i wouldnt call them morons. I have plenty of friends who likes to relax when playing, and they find it relaxing to grind herbs or metals for 5 hrs straight (go figure). I dont get it, but that doesnt make em stupid, they make their gold the way the like to earn it. Just as rediculous is the notion that if you study marketting instead of engineering... I mean, what kind of a moron would study anything he likes to do, over something he does not want to be doing?<br /><br />For many reasons making gold in game does not apply to real life examples. And i would really have a hard time katagolizing anyone who justs wants to relax after work in a game, and therefor just buy the glyph instead of the herbs needed, as morons. Making a concious descicion to just not wanting to worry about something, hardly makes you a moron. At least in my world. <br />Now on the other hand, those that read all the guides, play all the AH tricks, and still dont make gold, those we can agree on are morons! (or that one guy on my server that keeps on taking his own stuff of the AH to sell it again 1copper lower than whatever is the lowest bid... and does this 24hrs a day, he is a moron - but for a totally other reason ;)Dwismhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02332850111235993334noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-51757451910440293362009-05-14T11:57:00.000+02:002009-05-14T11:57:00.000+02:00An addendum.
In the post that started all this my...An addendum.<br /><br />In the post that started all this my objection was that you assumed that there would always be a loser in the scenario you described. One reason that is a flawed assumption, that I didn't mention, is that it assumes parties would act in a more profit maximising manner, in case of your abscense. This is not an assumption you can make. In the case you don't make your initial investment, which would smooth demand and supply over time, there is nothing that says the Death Knights would have invested their time different anyway. They would probably just have acted in the same manner, and ended up buying mats at a higher price compared to if you had bought up the previous surplus aand stored it. The situation IS win-win, even if, assuming your investment pays off, you win more.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16034693673588122994noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-29394455203064465262009-05-14T11:43:00.000+02:002009-05-14T11:43:00.000+02:00More nuanced post this time. However you are igno...More nuanced post this time. However you are ignoring one cruical factor when you decide to call people morons when they don't use optimal means of getting rich. People are different and have different capabilities to preform certain jobs. This is much more pronounced in the real world compared to WoW.<br /><br />People are different, due to genetics and social factors beyond our control. A person who takes a low paid job as a janitor is not necessarily making a bad choice by not taking up, let's say, IP-law instead, simply because he wouldn't be capable of producing any worthwhile work in the latter field, no matter how hard he tried. So he has adapted to his circumstances. To take your example with deadnettle and glyphs. Realising the potential profits in turning herbs to ink requires knowledge that comes with time invested in research and your genetic predisposition towards intellectual labour. Now we are not talking quantum physics here, but it still will be beyond the capabilities of a plenty of ten to 12 year old WoW players, which means that there will be a market for goblins to take advantage off. Then there is also the fact that a certain amount of money is not worth the same to all actors in a market. A factory worker a third world country get a lot more utility out of a dollar than an investor in New York who buys his products to re-sell them. Both make rational choices on how to invest their time and both end up happier with the end result, even if one of them profits far more, in absolute terms.<br /><br />Now what the socialist will see is that you make a lot of gold out of just a little work while the factory worker work hard and long for much less gold and automatically assume this is unfair and call you an exploiter.<br /><br />However what actually does happen is that you, the capitalist, provide a market for the work that the low skilled worker does. You might make a much larger profit from the trade than he does, but without you he wouldn't make a profit at all, since there would be no market for his product, or his profit would at least be lower.<br /><br />What I object to in your reasoning is not that you advocate taking advantage of people charging low prices for their work and the products of their work. What annoys me is that you frame your resoning in terms that reinforce the socialist stereotype that making profit by investments is a usless endeavor that merely exploits the poor workers, when in fact the opposite is true.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16034693673588122994noreply@blogger.com