tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post2642448033151051219..comments2024-02-27T14:44:07.868+01:00Comments on Greedy goblin: Why be mean with people?Gevlonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07072766785893313616noreply@blogger.comBlogger40125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-28450752114045849762009-12-31T08:42:47.111+01:002009-12-31T08:42:47.111+01:00@Okrane
Unfortunately, applied to real life this p...@Okrane<br />Unfortunately, applied to real life this principle fails hard. <br />My uncle was seriously ill for last half of his life. He got Multiple sclerosis. Medics don't know what causes it (wiki says "unlucky combination of factors"), and they don't know how to help it. If someone got it, he will be fully paralized in 10-15 years, but from feet to face, so half of the time you cannot walk, but can do something with your hands, can talk, etc.<br />So he had to use wheelchair. And here, in Russia, you can't get out of your home with this. Stairs and curbs everywhere, no special passages, nothing - you will not even be able to leave your flat without two ppl carrying you. You can't get into bus or train, or even shop. You can't go to the park. <br />Add to this that welfare here prevents any leaching beaing dramatically small.<br />So he was traped within his home.<br />Being not moron, but unlucky person irl in society like this will cause much more issues than being kicked out of group cause of numbers in recount.Leehohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07438956683794597730noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-63609888010515972892009-12-31T06:52:48.856+01:002009-12-31T06:52:48.856+01:00Wishing my fellow introvert a Happy New Year! Keep...Wishing my fellow introvert a Happy New Year! Keep the moron blogs coming because they add laughter to my otherwise miserable work day.Jujeehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11075945120950670714noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-45498201337911258542009-12-31T01:24:18.250+01:002009-12-31T01:24:18.250+01:00Erm, maybe its just me, but nothing in that screen...Erm, maybe its just me, but nothing in that screenshot strikes me as particularly "mean". Honest criticism and mean are not synonyms. When somebody critiques your performance, even bluntly, they're doing you a favour. Even "socials" realise that somebody who can't take constructive criticism is dysfunctional.Treenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-37768520288524288032009-12-30T23:49:54.778+01:002009-12-30T23:49:54.778+01:00Random heroics have brought out the worst in me. I...Random heroics have brought out the worst in me. I'm something of a mean and blunt person, though I realize that as a guild / raid leader that the team is usually more productive when I'm positive and constructive than negative. <br /><br />I usually snark back at people who fail at being DPS, often with ungemmed and unenchanted gear. Undisicplined cocky dps in full T9 welfare gear makes a baby tank very sad. :(<br /><br />I'm doubly mean if they die to the stupid.Zanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03812849792328418932noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-40003395454271220862009-12-30T21:40:02.963+01:002009-12-30T21:40:02.963+01:00Strutt said:
'Just curious, but why would you ...Strutt said:<br />'Just curious, but why would you ever more than the first time have a lower rank spell that you are using? Its not like you are still learning spells and forgot to put the new one on there.. Plus there is no benefit to using lower lvl spells anymore.'<br /><br />There is actually a bug/design flaw with the way dual specs handle<br />new ranks of spells. When you train up on one spec, your spell ranks will not automatically update for spells you have on your action bars for the other spec. <br /><br />On my hunter I leveled using BeastMastery while having a Survival spec as secondary. When I traines my last rank of Serpent Sting I did it in BM. My spell ranks in my Survival spec did not update automatically and up till this week I was using a lower rank of Serpent Sting. It was also the only one of my primary shots that I did not have macroed as I did with Explosive Shot and Multi Shot (macros sidestep the issue).<br /><br />I will admit that I get a bit of perverse pleasure out of pointing out that other people missed it as well so I need to be even more professional about it.Nielashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08685329191772513319noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-62295270073957691132009-12-30T21:14:20.401+01:002009-12-30T21:14:20.401+01:00@Gnome: I inserted a clarification part to the tex...@Gnome: I inserted a clarification part to the text.Gevlonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07072766785893313616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-13549119301270796542009-12-30T21:12:01.644+01:002009-12-30T21:12:01.644+01:00"Also you comment amplify magic which is a ba..."Also you comment amplify magic which is a bad thing to use unless there is NO magic damage going on. "<br /><br /><br />In game, you merely said 'never'. your in game statement was wrong, this is more correct.<br /><br /><br />Also, if you ran ahead without checking for a healer, it was your fault. What's standard operating procedure on your realm might be different (on mine, and in new lfg, we only do the extra Abom). You should just admit it didnt occur to you that people might not clear more trash first, and apologize. problem solved, no qq fest.Tyranoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-56026483986319194702009-12-30T21:02:43.410+01:002009-12-30T21:02:43.410+01:00"Mean" is in the eye of the "victim..."Mean" is in the eye of the "victim". I have a high tolerance for and appreciate straightforward feedback. I have a low tolerance for power hungry or controlling asshats and I recognize them easily because I have a high degree of self confidence in my performance.<br /><br />I don't QQ about someone being "mean" to me. I just assume that their favorite kitty died when they threw it against the wall too hard.<br /><br />What will make me QQ is a leader who doesn't appreciate my worth, won't communicate directly, or leaves me out of a raid when I clearly signed up early, showed up on time (or early) and I get passed up "accidentally" without a word.<br /><br />Thankfully, none of that happens with dungeon finder. <br /><br />That said, if someone really wipes a random heroic because they didn't take their ritalin, /kick or I'm gone.Bristalnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-33157729352591475522009-12-30T19:26:51.903+01:002009-12-30T19:26:51.903+01:00@Apostasy
You are a fail tank. Simple as that. Yo...@Apostasy<br /><br />You are a fail tank. Simple as that. You didn't bother to check to make sure the group is following you, you just assumed that they were.<br /><br />You're just as bad as the protadin that was in my Naxx10 group for the weekly raid quest. Bitched about two tanks (I agree unnecessary) and how my health pissed him off (ignoring the fact that he was using about 3 buffs to health that I wasn't). Lo and behold the idiot decided to run off ahead of the raid, then bitched when he died. Of course, had I -not- been a tank the raid would have wiped.<br /><br />Awareness is an important trait for tanks, awareness of what mobs are around you, awareness of who's following you, awareness of the mana bar of your healer, and consequently awareness of what you are pulling onto yourself. Based on the story, you failed on at least knowing whether you were being followed which lead to you making the mistake of pulling too much trash which nearly lead to the party wipe.<br /><br />Hell, when I was farming some trash in ICC10 to get friendly, someone triggered a trap. I picked up the skeleton and started to back to a wall. I didn't pay attention and aggroed another mob. I died because I got webbed by that mob. I screwed up, I acknowledge my mistake and I learned from it.<br /><br />You on the other hand, you're trying to displace your mistake by pointing out the mistakes of others in the screenshot provided by Gevlon. Your pride is so wounded you've even attempted to defend yourself here on these blogs. So shut up, man up, and accept the fact you screwed up and learn from it.<br /><br />Talderas, Protection Paladin- Gurubashi (US)Talderashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04199885847948599406noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-5312581208131850352009-12-30T19:08:43.971+01:002009-12-30T19:08:43.971+01:00I would love to hear your opinion of people with 5...I would love to hear your opinion of people with 5k dps who run through instances leaving anyone doing 2k in the dust. I recently ran normal Pit of Saron with my cat druid in order to do the quest line. The tank pulled so many things at once the healer was too busy to heal dps. I did the best I could with my gear, but was left dead and kicked. I expect this kind of thing when running heroics, but normal? Would you consider them M&S or just raider-jerks? <br /><br />Thank you for the blog. I enjoy it greatly.Katmai of Shadow Councilnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-1549481674968436442009-12-30T19:07:56.889+01:002009-12-30T19:07:56.889+01:00your tank has a point about chain pulling.
dps is...your tank has a point about chain pulling.<br /><br />dps is so meter happy now that everybody wants to drop aoe as soon as a mob is tagged. Which makes it impossible to pull large groups cleanly, because a tank can't run to the next set of mobs *and* hold aoe (or even single target) aggro strongly. same with positioning mobs on single group pulls. Drives me crazy as a tank. Sure I can keep aggro even if you play that way, but we do the dungeon *slower* if you are trigger happy, not faster. If I can pull two groups at a time, my mana is infinite instead of occasionally having to drink, and when we have aoe dps, dps is *much* higher.The Gnome of Zurichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03203965173625552516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-46987931757844030912009-12-30T18:54:53.217+01:002009-12-30T18:54:53.217+01:00@pasky: it does count on bosses for TTW, but it t...@pasky: it does count on bosses for TTW, but it turns out not to be worth the global cd in an arcane rotation, unless it's a raid in which you have 3+ mages with TTW, in which case one of them can be the slow bitch.<br /><br />@Gevlon: I'd be very interested to hear your take on the rules I posted for US side of undergeared. I specifically ban what I call abuse, which is basically content-free meanness. i.e. Be mean only by specifically telling people what you think they are doing wrong and what they can do better. You can't do anything helpful with content-free abuse, so why bother -- if someone isn't worth educating, you kick them, or get someone who can to kick them (in the context of a guild like undergeared anyway). <br /><br />We are all social animals, and negative comments hurt performance. Even goblins have ape brains, and it is rational to understand this and work around it. When deferring to your ape-brain keeps you from educating or understanding, we have to work hard to overcome these no-longer useful biases. So I agree completely with what you did here. We should not be afraid to tell people what we see them doing wrong, and listen for and learn fro the true criticism of others even if it's in the middle of an otherwise foolish tirade. But content free abuse merely goes against our ape-nature with no useful counter-function. It will hurt the performance of the raid. If it helps at all, it's when we all collaborate in being an asshole to some poor slob whom we are about to kick, but that's purely about coddling in-group vs. out-group ape-subroutines, that I don't particularly want to encourage either. <br /><br />The "feel good" bit when you are mean to someone? That's an artefact of our in vs. out group social subroutines. Fine if it's a side effect of doing something useful, but I don't think we should encourage going after that feeling, because that same mechanism has the potential to drive some terrible rationality errors.The Gnome of Zurichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03203965173625552516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-166853497055133892009-12-30T18:15:20.035+01:002009-12-30T18:15:20.035+01:00I can be quite mean person, especially in the morn...I can be quite mean person, especially in the mornings. And yes, it really relieves the stress. But I have never gotten good advice in PUG. I have been kicked from group for not dps-ing as a healer and going too fast as a tank ("It's too stressful!"), but I have never been advised. Maybe I should expand on reasons and instead of "Tank, you fail, your gear doesn't allow chain pulls" I should say "Tank, you fail, lack of gear makes you get too much damage too fast and its gets unhealable at one point, especially, if you run away while I drink"?zahorijshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06107289820888581012noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-15269189184417260222009-12-30T18:12:42.165+01:002009-12-30T18:12:42.165+01:00@nielas
Just curious, but why would you ever more...@nielas<br /><br />Just curious, but why would you ever more than the first time have a lower rank spell that you are using? Its not like you are still learning spells and forgot to put the new one on there.. Plus there is no benefit to using lower lvl spells anymore.Struttnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-22175536967825462242009-12-30T18:10:43.739+01:002009-12-30T18:10:43.739+01:00The tank has two jobs; keep aggro on him/herself a...The tank has two jobs; keep aggro on him/herself and communicate to the group where/when the next pull is going to happen. NO ONE freaking grabs the abom before Svala is engaged unless they're going for the achievement... but people always ask before attempting an achievement. It's just stupid to assume that everyone is watching the tank when the tank shouldn't be doing whatever they were doing.<br /><br />Sad, though... considering the minimal wait time for tanks, it makes more people who should NOT be tanking heroics try to tank them... stacking stam on quasi-tank gear in a DPS spec. It's not about HP, it's about damage reduction and abilities! Idiots... -_- I don't hesitate to call these people out when I see them.<br /><br />For the people who have issues with DPS doing the pulls... tell them, "If you pull it, you tank it." Their repair bills might convince them to stop pulling.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-18454319118251273882009-12-30T17:10:15.526+01:002009-12-30T17:10:15.526+01:00I disagree being mean is not profitable, its more ...I disagree being mean is not profitable, its more work, and the reward is minimal. I try to think in terms of profit and loss when it comes to my social interactions. Basically, these idoits aren't worth my time, so its a profit loss even talking to them. As for making myself feel better, thats nice in all, but all it does is introduce "Complications" such as having to explain myself, or follow up on my opinions/advice, or even having do deal with the negative opinions of others. I just keep it to myself, and if they suck too much, I simply leave the group. <br />Again, its important to think of profit in social interactions. Berating someone may feel good, but its just as useless as a non-combat pet. Better to focus on useful stuff.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-17172078692896717672009-12-30T16:54:24.522+01:002009-12-30T16:54:24.522+01:00I am somewhere in between, with my main focus bein...I am somewhere in between, with my main focus being on expedience. If correction some one will lead to a faster run I do it. If correcting some one will simply lead to drama, I ignore their stupidity and just get the run done with.<br /><br />As a note, things that will speed up the run:<br />"Tank, you should start marking mobs so the adds don't get pulled off and wipe us"<br />"Healer, forcing the lock to eat/drink after every fight because you don't want to heal his life tapping is just slowing us down, toss him a HoT and move on"<br />"Tank, you suck, if you don't know how to tank, don't Queue up as a tank" And vote kick (or just get them to rage quit).<br /><br />Subpar DPS I mostly ignore unless they are pulling stupid tricks (all the classic "You might be a Huntard if..." lines) that will get us wiped. I mean, I don't enjoy carrying crappy players, however if they aren't really slowing us down (wipes) I'm not going to start the drama as that WILL slow us down.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03695811439211505233noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-56413714460145360342009-12-30T16:40:38.366+01:002009-12-30T16:40:38.366+01:00@Okrane:
Great comment. And that bullshit-left-win...@Okrane:<br />Great comment. And that bullshit-left-wing-"leave no man behind"-western-european-crap-ideology makes the person who has any criticism a "mean" person... figures.<br />I think western-europe still needs to suffer communism (or any other kind of extreme collectivist bullshit ideology in practice) before they finally understand that their leaders are wrong and evil. Though I'll make sure they'll have to suffer it without me if that time ever comes.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-83504107983715427612009-12-30T16:24:15.669+01:002009-12-30T16:24:15.669+01:00You got mad at me for not being able to aggro the ...You got mad at me for not being able to aggro the mobs while im trying to speed the heroic up with chainpulling. I notice the healer isn't walking so i run back hoping he can still save me. I blow all my defensive cooldowns and see you AoEing. Trying to manage aggro and staying alive didn't work and i died result you calling me dumb?<br />Then i see you casting slow on a boss which is o.O. If you raid-or have alot of experience in the game with raids or PVE you should know that every tank has his own Slow abilities. Also you comment amplify magic which is a bad thing to use unless there is NO magic damage going on. The magic damage is increased which is very good yes healing is higher but it doesn't compare.<br /><br />Have Fun ingame.<br />Apostasy - Al Akir EUApostasyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16678282853630883378noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-64857729021855560042009-12-30T15:56:22.095+01:002009-12-30T15:56:22.095+01:00I have trouble with the "be mean" strate...I have trouble with the "be mean" strategy. My ignore list is full for avoiding folks in pugs, and I have to pick and choose who to remove while you're having no issue avoiding many more than my limit of 50.<br /><br />Something to think about. I wonder if I politey ask them to ignore me if they would do so? :P<br /><br />More than once I have entered an instance in enhance spec, swapped to resto as I was brought in as the healer role (now mana is gone) and had tank blindly rushing mobs immediately after I typed wait on mana. You can get through a first group like that, but when they continue to pull at that pace while you're sitting with an empty bar a wipe is right around the corner. I can't argue that a tirade about his stupidity would achieve more (avoiding grouping with him due to being ignored) than placing him on ignore and having to remove another idiot.<br /><br />Definitley something to think about.Lee Quillenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00056290327567993215noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-25739588336174717482009-12-30T15:43:23.059+01:002009-12-30T15:43:23.059+01:00I have to agree with Tonus. I really so nothing &...I have to agree with Tonus. I really so nothing 'mean' in that conversation. The group wiped when it should not have so someone screwed up. Pinpointing the mistake is a good idea and is not 'mean'. In this case you had a problem with communication with multiple people making assumptions how people 'always' do specific content. (I have never been in a UP group that pulled trash while waiting on the boss).<br /><br />In this scenario being 'mean' would have been posting deragatory comments about the others after the issue has been discussed. It would have been 'mean' to keep badgering someone after they accepted that they made a mistake.<br /><br />There is a clear difference between being 'mean' and being 'professional'. A professional can give out criticism and accept criticism without insulting or being insulted. You discuss the issue in a clear manner and then either come to a consensus or agree to disagree and part ways.<br /><br />In this scenario Gevlon was not 'mean' but he was not really that professional either. Of course the tank also lacked professionalism in this disagreement.<br /><br />I use the Rankwatch addon to show when peopel needlessly use lower ranked spells. It notifies the person/group about what it finds. I do not consider this to be 'mean' but just me being professional (it is quite emberassing when the addon catches me with bad spell ranks). I will not badger people about it if it does not hamper the group (ie heroics affords us a lot of leeway). If the person I notify thanks me I consider that very professional. If they are offended they lose my respect and I will consider just dropping group.<br /><br />The official Blizzard word is that it takes an unanimous vote to kick someone from a random.Nielashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08685329191772513319noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-75721894409297955992009-12-30T15:41:27.005+01:002009-12-30T15:41:27.005+01:00I'm glad I'm not tanking your groups - gro...I'm glad I'm not tanking your groups - groups that need a repeated "r?" before every trash pull. Lethargy makes me mean.<br /><br />ALWAYS FOLLOW THE TANK.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-81519091144124410232009-12-30T15:29:01.845+01:002009-12-30T15:29:01.845+01:00As long as the healer has mana, then EVERYONE need...As long as the healer has mana, then EVERYONE needs to be following the tank and paying attention. You shouldnt need to do ready checks in Heroics. While it might "help", people need to be doing there jobs and paying attention is what it boils down to, Its not a raid its only a heroic. doing Ready checks... thats being nice, people should always be ready. Unless healer has no mana. Healer should be the only one slowing up pulls.Struttnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-43259878201711961652009-12-30T15:20:23.044+01:002009-12-30T15:20:23.044+01:00@Ken
It is not uncommon for tanks to pull that si...@Ken<br /><br />It is not uncommon for tanks to pull that single hallway abom during the RP of the first boss of UP.<br /><br />However, you address a big problem with the LFG tool without realizing. The system is only working and getting queues as quickly as it is because of tanks joining. If you initiated a vote kick, you guys would have likely been sitting there waiting until another tank joins the queue. That issue is going to get worse as time goes on or more bosses in ICC are released.<br /><br />In fact it already has on my server. My guild has been grumbling about queue times being longer than they were a week ago. The truth of the matter is that tanks don't need Triumph badges, and that the payoff for doing more random heroics (the gold reward) beyond the the one for frost badges is not worth it. One wipe, bad DPS and the time/effort quickly isn't worth it. As more bosses in ICC are released, the need to do random heroics for frost badges will diminish, and that need will also diminish as more gear is purchased.<br /><br />The truth of the matter is that good tanks can easily afford to be mean. If I want to skip two bosses in Old Kingdom, there really isn't anything the rest of the group can do about it. They can't go ahead without me. I can easily let them die or just leave the group. They can choose to kick vote me, which isn't in their best interested since tanks are in the highest demand for LFG, and there's no guarantee that the replacement tank will be competent.<br /><br />It doesn't matter to me one way or another if I get /ignored. It does matter for DPS and to a lesser extent healers, to /ignore me because that reduces the number of good/competent tanks that they can possibly queue with.<br /><br />In the LFG tool tanks hold most of the cards, so you're better off abandoning in most cases rather than trying to force a tank to do what you want.<br /><br />Personally, I only do more than 2 heroics via the LFG tool (TotC & Random) if one of the following conditions are true.<br /><br />#1 - I have 2 guild members filling DPS/Healer<br />#2 - I have 3 guild members filling DPS/DPS/Healer<br />#3 - I have 4 guild members making the group entirely in the guild (all you lose out is the buff for 5% damage/healing/health buff).Talderashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04199885847948599406noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-79293943469474878652009-12-30T15:09:45.437+01:002009-12-30T15:09:45.437+01:00Gev, you say be mean... But yet the first things o...Gev, you say be mean... But yet the first things out your mouth is "Great Healing"<br /><br />And you only need 3 votes to get kicked as 3/5 is majorityStruttnoreply@blogger.com