tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post1222275278627830190..comments2024-02-27T14:44:07.868+01:00Comments on Greedy goblin: The Phoebe of PvEGevlonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07072766785893313616noreply@blogger.comBlogger29125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-2211741439238376792015-04-12T17:49:17.523+02:002015-04-12T17:49:17.523+02:00My solution would be to buff pve complexity and di...My solution would be to buff pve complexity and difficulty. To the point where bots can't complete them, and players get physically tired of them. <br /><br /><br />This is a far better solution then <br />an artificial limit.<br /><br /><br />Burner missions are a good start to this.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-2301192412911660242015-04-11T21:45:20.200+02:002015-04-11T21:45:20.200+02:00Telling people how to play isn't a great strat...Telling people how to play isn't a great strategy. There are some people who legitimately enjoy PvE and not much else. No need to punish them.<br /><br />Also what about the incursion community? Say you will about it being an isk faucet but the relationships and communities that incursions have built is great for the game. They shouldn't be punished for enjoying PvE in groups.<br /><br />I love PvP and its my favorite aspect in Eve. But Eve isn't a PvP game. Its an MMO. Bitters should be removed, but it shouldn't also remove entire communities in the processAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11739207223067087849noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-76600492539218987712015-04-11T00:23:49.250+02:002015-04-11T00:23:49.250+02:00But it makes all rich players with big bank rolls ...But it makes all rich players with big bank rolls even richer without lifting a finger. Hmm I wonder where this idea originated?<br />This is a bad idea. We need more ISK sinks. More items purchased from Npcs and isk leaveing the universe making everyone's ISK more valuable. <br />I'd find any reduced benefits of my in game time a waste and less fun, this is a game. And if I stopped farming when a low ceiling kicked in to do other things it wouldn't stop the bot farmers from keeping me from pulling ahead. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-84640663583817826182015-04-10T21:10:58.956+02:002015-04-10T21:10:58.956+02:00@Anonymous no his definition is quite good I think...@Anonymous no his definition is quite good I think...<br /><br />30 hours a month, you have 24 a week so something like 100 hours a month.<br />Now just to make the math a bit simpler, assume the "diminishing returns" are, "nothing after 50 hours"<br /><br />so your output is suddenly only 1/2. <br />The same is true for every other "normal player", if we assume you were the average player, so your result is suddenly worth two times as much, as the supply is only 1/2. Nothing lost for you but you just gained half of your time to do different things.<br />However, there are the bots and "nolifers" that go for about 3-600 hours a month. Those are also downto 50 hours or 1/6th-1/12th of their output... but they only get 1/3-1/6th of what they used to make.<br /><br />So, while you can't use all your time for farming anymore, your income should actually be <b>better</b> than it currently is.<br /><br />So, while the low treshold would seem to hurt "normal players" as well, it actually benefits them! You use less time for the same/more gain.<br />Pheredhelnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-81640817149623250032015-04-10T19:21:10.113+02:002015-04-10T19:21:10.113+02:00I don't think we need an artifact like fatigue...I don't think we need an artifact like fatigue to solve the problem. We need dynamic asteroid/ice belts with rocks that move and require attentive pilots to harvest efficiently. We need intelligent "burner" style rats that can kill any ship that doesn't have a pilot at the controls. This won't eliminate multi-boxing but it will reduce the size of fleet one player can control and bots are unlikely to be effective in a dynamic, unpredictable environment. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-38455874747982137602015-04-10T19:12:20.059+02:002015-04-10T19:12:20.059+02:00I agree with the other poster, your definition of ...I agree with the other poster, your definition of casual is very conservative. I work full-time and have a family. I play 1 to 4 hours at a time 4 to 6 times a week. So I could play 4 hours or 24 hours in week depending upon real life demands. <br />If something like this were to be implemented it would need to target the real power players not the average.<br />You use 10+ hours per day as your no lifer example. You would need a system that discouraged that style of play not mine.<br />I'm not really for this idea, but if it were done: Maybe something where if you spend more than 8 hours in a 24 hour window doing PvE activity you would get diminished returns for the next 24 hours. Biggest issue is how to measure this. I can't think of a way that would be fair and measurable. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-27314447248477069652015-04-10T18:25:27.649+02:002015-04-10T18:25:27.649+02:00I have to agree with this sort of idea in principl...I have to agree with this sort of idea in principle. Lots of botting and no-life-ing do drive down the value of my activities. However, usually people prefer some sort of positive reinforcement, rather then negative. Something like a mission that resets after so many hours of account inactivity would be better in that regard. After 36, nonconsecutive, hours of inactivity you get a mission that rewards you say 50 million for 10 minutes of work.<br /><br />As a semi-casual player this sort of thing would blow up my income/hr to 190+ mill or so, but only for the first 40 minutes a day, which is all I tend to play during a day. A botter would still make more isk over a 24 hour period, but at something like one three quarters to one tenth the rate. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-89805439340270490622015-04-10T15:57:22.825+02:002015-04-10T15:57:22.825+02:00One can also add that in real World neither multib...One can also add that in real World neither multiboxing, nor botting is possible.<br /><br />You can't just create clones out of nothing to do your bidding, nor can you send your body to work while your mind is watching TV.<br /><br />Also, in real life everyone is expected to work 8 hours a day and no one is capable of working more than 16 for a day. On the other hand in a game you can be online 10x longer than an average competitor.Gevlonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07072766785893313616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-55144606654666931522015-04-10T15:53:20.385+02:002015-04-10T15:53:20.385+02:00Most people think a certain level of socialism in ...Most people think a certain level of socialism in the real world is necessary since the thing *are* real, whereas the pixel world is the perfect place for laissez-faire to run wild since no one dies of starvation or gets poisoned by toxic waste dumped and so on if they don't/can't work.<br /><br />Also I wonder about the definition of a no-lifer. The average American watches 4 hours of TV a day so, assuming that the average person in society "has a life", then your limit of PvE would have to be 4 hours, providing they are using computer games in lieu of TV as recreation.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-33953075765391504782015-04-10T15:00:48.204+02:002015-04-10T15:00:48.204+02:00Gevlon
Ice belts deplete but not there regen rate...Gevlon<br /><br />Ice belts deplete but not there regen rate.<br /><br />There is no "fatigue" in it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-10363726299016286872015-04-10T14:53:02.025+02:002015-04-10T14:53:02.025+02:00@Pashko Zpc: so you are saying "players shoul...@Pashko Zpc: so you are saying "players should only get ISK from PvP, PvE is limited to botters and nolifers"<br /><br />@Anonymous: a video game is not real life. In real life if everyone works hard, we have more food, bigger house, more medicine. In-game stuff have no inherent value, it can only be valued against the wealth of the next guy. If everyone has 10x more, no one has more, just the decimal was placed away.<br /><br />@next anon: depleting resources don't touch the problem: player is stomped by no-lifer and botter. Ice is already depleting, go mine ice! You'll start mining, then 50 procurers warp in at once and before your hold is full, the ice anomaly is gone.Gevlonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07072766785893313616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-44659517769845200902015-04-10T14:36:31.312+02:002015-04-10T14:36:31.312+02:00A "easy" way to implement Fatigue in PvE...A "easy" way to implement Fatigue in PvE is to make system deplete.<br /><br />A system that is constantly ratted or mined would downgrade with time to the point that anomalies would stop spawning or only low grade anomalies spawn or belts.<br /><br />You would have to let the system regen and move on to another system. Upgrades could increase this regen rate.<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-51103048771814574522015-04-10T13:51:30.805+02:002015-04-10T13:51:30.805+02:00So you want a progressive tax on those who work ha...So you want a progressive tax on those who work harder and invest more to subsidise the slackers who barely work at all, isn't that......socialism?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-91617717537830293272015-04-10T13:39:27.306+02:002015-04-10T13:39:27.306+02:00People always whine. They find hundreds of reasons...People always whine. They find hundreds of reasons why their gameplay is ineffective/broken/unfulfilled because of some bad guys.<br />Botting tengus and afktars are competing your poor highsec l4 income? Go sell drones, paste and rockets to these guys at local hub. Highsec multibox miners are pouring countless minerals? Place ore buy orders. FW lp runners are doing five times more isk than you? Go manipulate tag market and make billions/day. Cap escalation octopuses are cooking 1b/hour? Set blue loot and salvage buy orders on lowsec edges, get 50kk from every 1kkk of bloot. Manipulate t2 markets (they are tight and yield nice returns in short time).<br />Adopt. Make profits off these material and isk streams. Be smart.<br />You are not evolving, not getting better and refuse to learn? Your whine is irrelevant then.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06687079931897127791noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-23342419987668842422015-04-10T13:21:30.217+02:002015-04-10T13:21:30.217+02:00If you mine more than 30 hrs/month .. seriously, d...If you mine more than 30 hrs/month .. seriously, do you have a life?<br /><br />This is all economy 101.<br /><br />If central bank prints money and gives it for free, the value of work is diminished. In the end there is no economy, even if people are willing to work, as whole system got destroyed. See Zimbabwe.<br /><br />In eve, the value is in reward/time spent playing.<br /><br />In case of "time is free" - bots and no lifers diminish real value of other people "work". You cannot compete with that. Moreso - given that such activities do happen in almost risk-free space - they are not even content.<br /><br />Add RMT to the mix (because how you think all this isk to be sold is generated).<br /><br />Most of blandness associated with EvE is because of systems that favour "time is free" people, and entities that feed on them - that grown to the size no group of normal players can tackle.<br /><br />With isk from no-lifing gone, all other activities could become much more meanigfull, at least in reward/time sense.<br /><br />So - all losses and no gain for player in way things are.Lukenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-24598584556869435432015-04-10T12:54:47.977+02:002015-04-10T12:54:47.977+02:00What would stop people using up their full 30 hour...What would stop people using up their full 30 hours, then topping it off by trading for the rest of the time, still being able to plex?<br /><br />Also, how does this balance with the different activities. 30 hours mining isn't enough time to make a plex, but 30 hours of incursions of mission blitzing is more than enough time. Things like PI can be done efficiently meaning you only need to spend a minute or so at a time in the UI, but can still make just as much as you can now.<br /><br />All in all I think an artificial restriction to PvE is a bad idea in a game to be honest. I don't see the benefit in trying to punish people for playing the game their way. Trading is by far more of a reason for plex prices being so high because of how much they are traded and held onto for speculation.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-82173615115289961752015-04-10T12:00:50.080+02:002015-04-10T12:00:50.080+02:00PLEX seller getting more ISK means that PLEX selli...PLEX seller getting more ISK means that PLEX selling is a better alternative to playing the game. <br /><br />If PLEX prices are high, someone with a few bucks have no reason to ever PvE nor he ever experiences loss in PvP.Gevlonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07072766785893313616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-74595553666647847002015-04-10T11:43:26.808+02:002015-04-10T11:43:26.808+02:00So, can someone explain what is the problem in a p...So, can someone explain what is the problem in a plex seller getting more isk for the plex then a year ago?<br />And dont start talking about the woes of those bying plex for isk because quite honestly if you want to play for free I hear facebook has nice games.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-26138777508166009562015-04-10T09:16:49.132+02:002015-04-10T09:16:49.132+02:00That is actually very good idea.
Also, it indirec...That is actually very good idea.<br /><br />Also, it indirectly helps PVP activities: with less isk sloshing aroud, the costs of sustaining losses might go down.(market deflation)<br /><br />Another side effect would be limitation of use for all those faction /pirate ships -> less drops<br /><br />Then there would be a matter of taking isk already injected, off the board. It is similar problem as finding a way to remove whole supercapital blob (and way you think about it, the reason ships that were supposed to be rare are fielded in 100's by big blocks, is tied directly to bot-infested renter empires)Lukenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-33849688548921567132015-04-10T09:10:28.298+02:002015-04-10T09:10:28.298+02:00@Anonymous: no, mining isn't zero-sum. If more...@Anonymous: no, mining isn't zero-sum. If more people mine, more minerals are mined. While it indeed decreases the mineral prices, but as demand increases for minerals at lower prices (more ships explode if they are cheap), everyone is making more money.<br /><br />In case of trading or profitable ganking, no value is created. What I gain is lost by someone.Gevlonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07072766785893313616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-89238537704451223682015-04-10T08:51:28.812+02:002015-04-10T08:51:28.812+02:00"if you are a moron who can't comprehend ..."if you are a moron who can't comprehend that trading is PvP activity, you'll be moderated out."<br /><br />Trading is no more a PvP activity than any other activity in the game. If you mine you are directly affecting other people's mineral prices, that's PvP. This reeks of "Everyone's income should be nerfed, but not mine".Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-90577969916980400802015-04-10T07:57:55.713+02:002015-04-10T07:57:55.713+02:00@S Riojas: the ban of multiplexing is just an adju...@S Riojas: the ban of multiplexing is just an adjustment acknowledging that this is a form of automation.<br /><br />I'm here suggesting what Phoebe did to PvP: to limit legitimate PvE overpower. No one said that the PL supercaps are cheats. They just said that they stomp out the life from lowsec by showing up anywhere, and the game is better since smaller entities are capable of fielding capitals in small-scale conflicts.Gevlonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07072766785893313616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-1331298109167998372015-04-10T07:57:47.271+02:002015-04-10T07:57:47.271+02:00Darn, forgot a point I wanted to make:
Jump Fati...Darn, forgot a point I wanted to make: <br /><br />Jump Fatigue and the nerf to jump range was only to a certain aspect of PvP itself. Applying the same reasoning to PvE you get something else:<br /><br />System fatigue - you spawn fewer and fewer rats forcing you to move out of the system to continue ratting. Missions could simply be limited by volume: Osmon has so many mission runners, it is amazing that Sister Lozdod Pousel still has missions. Eventually, based on sheer volume, all the work she has should dry up forcing mission runners to look elsewhere. Reducing mineral availability in High Sec would force greater movement of miners. The faster Ice is mined, the longer it takes for the next ice field to be found. Etc.<br /><br />That is closer to the spirit of Phoebe than a dry and unimaginative timer restricting you from activities. It is also a system that will spur greater PvP: people who consider an area "theirs" will be more amenable to war deccing their true competition: other mission runners, other miners, other PvE=ers. And that is what CCP wants: more strife from people combating each other. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12099303485336356465noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-16009826761476827512015-04-10T07:48:03.896+02:002015-04-10T07:48:03.896+02:00The ban on input multiplexing/broadcasting, has ce...The ban on input multiplexing/broadcasting, has certainly effected PLEX prices. They have stalled and are hovering in a holding pattern. If anything, the Phoebe of PvE has already been implemented: multi-boxing using broadcast input is ban-able. <br /><br />That is a better solution in my mind.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12099303485336356465noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-5666422821690571372015-04-10T06:40:03.881+02:002015-04-10T06:40:03.881+02:00PLEX prices haven't doubled in the past year, ...PLEX prices haven't doubled in the past year, they've remained consistent.<br /><br />Compare<br />https://web.archive.org/web/20140222055213/http://www.eve-central.com/ with<br />https://eve-central.com/<br /><br />They both show an almost identical price.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com