tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post1019731637979760497..comments2024-02-27T14:44:07.868+01:00Comments on Greedy goblin: Emblems vs random lootGevlonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07072766785893313616noreply@blogger.comBlogger39125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-40283749888745288412009-09-11T02:30:12.765+02:002009-09-11T02:30:12.765+02:00Over 40 runs now for Black Heart trinket from norm...Over 40 runs now for Black Heart trinket from normal ToC. Still has not dropped...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-33154892456630548252009-09-11T00:24:50.260+02:002009-09-11T00:24:50.260+02:00Random loot is downright nasty if one is doing an ...Random loot is downright nasty if one is doing an instance (in this case a NON-heroic) for a single item with a low droprate.<br /><br />In this case my pallytank, Halls of Lightning and the repelling charge.<br /><br />18 soul crushing runs it took, of a normal 80. I could have been doing heroics at that time. Very annoying.<br /><br />Badge/tier gear from loot is far better imho. There is still RND with boss loot, but while you are waiting for that drop you want, you are grinding badges for the tier items.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-77292737331942444512009-09-10T23:23:30.245+02:002009-09-10T23:23:30.245+02:00ummmm in my first raiding guild we had MC on farm ...ummmm in my first raiding guild we had MC on farm status fo 6 months. I had more DKP than I'd ever spend but the loot wouldn't drop. RANDOM IS RANDOM. which means most get it in the median time, some get it really quick and some never get it.samhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08143435412222235822noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-24865609459439239352009-09-10T23:07:58.569+02:002009-09-10T23:07:58.569+02:00Ugh:
"Of course chances decrease if spell DPS...Ugh:<br />"Of course chances decrease if spell DPS or someone who gathers offspec gear is present"<br /><br />0 people rolling on all your items: 17% chance to walk home empty handed<br /><br />1 person rolling on all your items: 45% chance to walk home empty handed<br /><br />"Assuming all 5-mans have the same drop chances, I have to run 5*17 = 85 5-mans to be full ilvl200 BiS (17 is the number of slots). However I have to run 17/1.6 = 11 5-mans to be geared for the next tier. "<br /><br />A) no way do all instances have 8 i200 slot items for your class. <br />B) once you get an ilvl200 in a slot your odds to get an upgrade on a run will drop. Your base numbers were built assuming that every item that drops is an upgrade. <br /><br />Just running nexus with no competition:<br />0 slots at i200: 17% chance no upgrade<br />1 slot at i200: 21% chance no upgrade<br />2 slots at i200: 26% chance chance no upgrade<br />3 slots at i200: 33% chance no upgrade<br />4 slots at i200: 41% chance no upgrade<br />etc. <br /><br />Your chances of running a heroic instance and going home empty handed increases each time you get a slot filled. <br /><br />C) loot slot overlap between instances reduces the value of all instances as your gear gets better<br /><br />Naturally this results in NO ONE RUNNING heroic instances. Why would you run a heroic anyway? You can buy all the BoE, crafted, or blue rep items you need to start regular ToC or naxx.<br /><br />The badges add in 2 things:<br />1) From blizzards prospective, it is a new carrot to get people to play more = more money for them<br />2) Players get a steady guaranteed upgrade method to get them almost best in slotAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-18313370603686666112009-09-10T22:10:34.354+02:002009-09-10T22:10:34.354+02:00"Of course chances decrease if spell DPS or s..."Of course chances decrease if spell DPS or someone who gathers offspec gear is present, but hey, they can ninja my epic too!"<br /><br />This is why badge gear is good. In the event that your are unlucky (in drops OR rolls), you get something.<br /><br />Say you had good gear, but are using a caster dps mainhand for healing (lots of +hit). You go to nexus, and do it a million times in hopes of getting that one item.<br /><br />OR! You run a variety of instances at your leisure for that guaranteed hypothetical equivalent epic 1-H healing mace.<br /><br />OR! Stop running nexus after the 20th time because you now have 100 badges and can buy that guaranteed hypothetical 1-H healing mace.<br /><br />I say this as someone who is using the caster dps sword from Champions Seals to heal. I'm just not lucky with healing main hands. I can heal T8 content with that ilvl200 caster dps weapon, but an upgrade would be nice.<br /><br />I've seen a TON of upgrades drop, but usually lost the roll or don't have priority as holy is technically my 'off-spec'. I don't sweat it because dropped gear is rarely a realistic progression impediment. But the reason that statement is true is because of badges and quests and crafted items that provide alternatives to grinding for gear.Vicknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-72725362505717068162009-09-10T20:39:00.420+02:002009-09-10T20:39:00.420+02:00I find your gear example from HC nexus to be decep...I find your gear example from HC nexus to be deceptive.<br /><br />The fact that the blue loot is 'good enough' to start raiding has nothing to do with the emblem system. If someone does not want to farm for purples then their concern is how easy is the item to get. <br /><br />The 'ease' of getting an item from random drops is determined purely by the chance to drop and luck. That blue necklace might be good enough for you to raid but if it never drops for you then you are still out of luck.<br /><br />If the item is obtainable through emblems then the only barrier to getting it is the number of emblems required. If one of those 'good enough' blues could be bought for 1-2 emblems then your entire argument evaporates.Nielasnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-25731471205893567272009-09-10T19:41:54.797+02:002009-09-10T19:41:54.797+02:00@RyanC:
I think I love you... <3
What you sai...@RyanC:<br /><br />I think I love you... <3<br /><br />What you said are exactly my thoughts!Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03321453208601931279noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-17212803199052793142009-09-10T18:54:56.575+02:002009-09-10T18:54:56.575+02:00I did 18 attempts on grobulus 10 man for the shiel...I did 18 attempts on grobulus 10 man for the shield... sadly it never dropped :(<br /><br />I hear you on the badges though, farming is annoying. Atleast with random loot there's the chance of going one and done.Markcohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13403848164475495092noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-73103645092372276492009-09-10T18:18:46.101+02:002009-09-10T18:18:46.101+02:00"Fun fact: there were exactly 11 5-mans in Wo..."Fun fact: there were exactly 11 5-mans in WotLK before ToC."<br /><br />If you ignore one, Yes.<br /><br />Nexus, Oculus, Ahn'Kahet, Azjol-Nerub<br />Utgarde Keep, Utgarde Pinnacle<br />Halls of Lightning, Halls of Stone<br />Violet Hold, Culling of Stratholme<br />Gundrak, Drak'Tharon Keep.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17936240711137701952noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-35257390815179789922009-09-10T17:53:15.091+02:002009-09-10T17:53:15.091+02:00I don't see why we can't have both. Really...I don't see why we can't have both. Really? Why not. You have a % chance to get useful gear every run and even if you don't get gear you get an emblem that can be used later.<br /><br />Consider the tokens a safety net for bad luck. I don't think we should look at a token currency system as the solution to loot.<br /><br />Smart loot that drops only useable items for the group is the best answer imo... second would be no class specific items that can be turned into what ever the person wants. ie a pants token.Nobshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04545146633167911253noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-51869029407645799022009-09-10T17:31:10.669+02:002009-09-10T17:31:10.669+02:00I think it's handy to have both drops and toke...I think it's handy to have both drops and tokens. But one of the issues I have with tokens is this:<br /><br />Devs decide at the beginning how much grind you need to do for one item with tokens. If that doesn't fit into your playing schedule, then you are largely wasting your time.<br /><br />So for example, if I have a healing alt. If some friends want to run a heroic and I can bring either the alt (maybe we need a healer) or my main, if I don't want to commit to grinding X badges on the alt then there's probably no point me even getting one of them. <br /><br />A token represents a commitment, is what I'm basically getting at. A random drop doesn't. So for some types of player or character, the token is just itemised poorly for how much they can play. How does blizzard decide on the token prices for loot? We don't know but they probably have a rough idea how much people play. If you're below that, then tokens may not be such a great deal for you.<br /><br />I don't know if there's really an answer. I'm just saying it has different problems :) At least this is what I tell people who want to know why my druid is still wearing its T6 hat.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-36287357368193943012009-09-10T17:28:20.323+02:002009-09-10T17:28:20.323+02:00Completely wrong.
With Random loot I can run 11 5...Completely wrong.<br /><br />With Random loot I can run 11 5-mans...or 85 5-mans and walk away with 0 upgrades. Specifically because it is random and I have equal chance of nothing dropping as I do an upgrade.<br /><br />The only way you can guarantee an upgrade is if bosses only dropped items usable for one class and there was a boss for each class. And we all know why that is such a horrible idea.<br /><br />Having random loot is great and needs to be in the design but they need to be combined with Emblem drops plain and simple or else you will have a flawed system.Dozenzhttp://www.slashcry.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-63202419760496992192009-09-10T17:23:58.945+02:002009-09-10T17:23:58.945+02:00i acutually like having both honestly.
I ran with...i acutually like having both honestly.<br /><br />I ran with the wrong top guild for a long time, They allowed me to come to MC with them but if they had a "Raiding Priest" That wanted gear for any reason, then i was not even allowed to roll on it, in a years time i nearly finished the prophecy set, never ever seen the robe drop, finally got a better one when BC came out (i think i was using the Truefaith until then that i crafted myself)<br /><br />Ive ran Nax several times and never had the luck to win the Robes or the shoulders but each run put me closer to being able to get them. When i had the badges i bought the gear rather then beating my head against the wall waiting for it to drop, and sure some of the badges came from OS and ulda, But i got my upgrade. The change to get the same badges from every where i suppose is odd, but they are simply pushing every one to the end content rather then making them grind naxx for a year to run (or feel like they can run*) ula, TOC ICC whatever. Same with the mount changes, Heirloom items, Recurit a friend... they just want to skip some of the grind, im just waiting for them to get the idea to have a skip level heirloom.....melnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-63366467642289322302009-09-10T16:25:58.312+02:002009-09-10T16:25:58.312+02:00I think the main problem with your post is you are...I think the main problem with your post is you are assuming there is something useful for the raid/party. That's true.<br /><br />However on any given run you aren't guaranteed anything useful for each member. That's why there are badges. Its so you can buy the stuff if you never got anything useful.<br /><br />Also its the only way to get most of the relics. Yes there are a few that drop, but what if you aren't one that is lucky enough to get it on the roll? You have to buy it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-74343393527443276522009-09-10T16:05:05.366+02:002009-09-10T16:05:05.366+02:00Using your example of Heroic Nexus points out part...Using your example of Heroic Nexus points out part of the problem. Sure, there are a bevy of drops your Resto Druid. Now tell me why on Azeroth your Tank is going to do the dungeon? Look again at the loot table you posted. There is 1 drop that a Tank would want. A cloak that is pretty much a sidegrade to a reputation item.Honors Codehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10603644804340531952noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-73332757190254529702009-09-10T15:51:13.791+02:002009-09-10T15:51:13.791+02:00Everyone's writing about this topic today...
...Everyone's writing about this topic today... <br /><br />It's just bland running for the exact same reward every time. Taking out the random drop factor takes all the uncertainty and interest out of running the heroics to begin with. And then the fact that you have to run them over and over for emblems... That's a lot of work for gear that you're essentially getting TO REPLACE with raid gear. <br /><br />When WoW becomes work it's a bad thing.Rhiihttp://www.isheepthings.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-87883011743285258232009-09-10T15:48:44.316+02:002009-09-10T15:48:44.316+02:00someone said:
"This game has 11 million subs...someone said:<br /><br />"This game has 11 million subscribers by NOT listening to the masses"<br /><br />are you playing wow? blizzard NOT listening to the mass? /lol actually this game sucks because of blizzard listening to the mass.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-57795513853469734952009-09-10T15:44:23.707+02:002009-09-10T15:44:23.707+02:00the problem with badges is that you get them in in...the problem with badges is that you get them in instances where you need lvl X items and they give you lvl 2X items.<br /><br />Is a nonsense. the same kind of nonsense as getting a lvl245 epic loot after running 245 death mines.blizz should fire the moron who had such stupid idea.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-47742822726152236942009-09-10T15:25:02.008+02:002009-09-10T15:25:02.008+02:00I know that if I was a mob boss in real life, the ...I know that if I was a mob boss in real life, the last thing I would do is carry magic armor and weapons I myself could not use but the entire player population wanted really badly.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-9002536349559715742009-09-10T15:18:32.460+02:002009-09-10T15:18:32.460+02:00There are 3 loot systems, Random loot, Emblem Loot...There are 3 loot systems, Random loot, Emblem Loot, and Crafted loot.<br /><br />Each has advantages in certain situations, ala the "Rock, Scissors, Paper" game.<br /><br />To claim that one is 'better' require contorted logic like you just proposed, Gevlon. There is NO WAY you will find groups of pre-heroic players that will be able to do heroics without constantly wiping without filtering for skill. There are just too many M&S in that bracket. <br /><br />Singling out any of the three will have serious drawbacks.<br /><br />The BEST system equally incorporates all three.Iiene of Kul Tirashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13427908681308163728noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-57945458058572199082009-09-10T15:18:21.352+02:002009-09-10T15:18:21.352+02:00My moron friend ran Heroic Gundrak over 25 times t...My moron friend ran Heroic Gundrak over 25 times to get the Epic 200 pants that drop from the boss...back before Conquest Badges came out.<br /><br />The result: Once they finally dropped, he ran into Naxx the next week and his Tier pants dropped.<br /><br />Anyone who complains about the badges dropping, is the kind of person who reminded the teacher that she forgot to assign homework.<br /><br />Ass. Hat.<br /><br />Badges are a safety valve, so that instead of running a place 10 times and hoping it drops, at the end of the 10th run, you have enough badges to just buy the item you want and move on.<br /><br />This game has 11 million subscribers by NOT listening to the masses, but by providing sufficient carrots and sticks to motivate people. They definitely didn't get that many people listening to the "fringe" living in basements, complaining that the days of work they put into the game can be dupicated by ppl putting in a fraction of the time. <br /><br />Anyone who revels in the "joy" of random loot, has way too much time on their hands and can't be too important.<br /><br />I paid someone 3000g to pass Calamity's Grasp to me. Nothing random about that, and it's MY best loot memory.<br /><br />Read Freakonmics, understand what actually motivates people, shut the hell up, and enjoy your epic loot.<br /><br />If you want to be hardcore, stop fooling yourself and go try EVE Online. You'll run screaming from that game, and be back in days.RyanCnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-58861251830630463792009-09-10T15:13:07.129+02:002009-09-10T15:13:07.129+02:00Lets say that no Tokens dropped in a Heroic, and t...Lets say that no Tokens dropped in a Heroic, and there were no daily quests which rewarded Tokens.<br /><br />You reach lvl80, with probably lvl74-80 greens with ilvl174 being an approximate max. You then want to gear up for raids... but wait... no-one in your guild will 'boost' you in heroics to improve your gear as they can get nothing from the task. In fact, no-one really does heroics any more because they have already maxed out their Rep and are on Tier 8 after pugging Naxx into oblivion.<br /><br />So, no more Heroics and very few PuG Tier 7 runs. If you want to raid you need to try to get into Tier 8, but the raid leader inspects you and sees your motley collection of ilvl174-180 greens and rep blues with maybe a Sons of Hodir, Argent Crusade or Ebon Hand epic. The RL laughs at you, tells you to L2P, and you quit WoW in favour of a game that lets you play at the end-game.<br /><br />There's nothing perfect about Tokens nor random drops, but both serve an important function in loot distribution and player motivation for content which otherwise would be obsolete. This also gives new lvl80's an in to end-game content and bridges the gear gap to higher tier raids. And of course random loot is the ultimate MMO lottery, where you so rarely get lucky but so often get every so close to winning. And when your that close, surely you'll get the drop next time?Suicidal Zebrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09209267053163631586noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-1128976732913799772009-09-10T14:04:51.894+02:002009-09-10T14:04:51.894+02:00@smeg
i have rarely been asked for stats / or ach...@smeg<br /><br />i have rarely been asked for stats / or achievements. If you have good skill you won't need those ridiculous stats to get in. All you need is find a group in your own gear level and run it with them. If you want to join a group with 4 ulduar geared players they will want you to be on similar gear levels and ask for those ilevels. Instead of trying to get boosted you could simply start a run yourself and find some other freshly dinged players. Sure, you might actually wipe a few times instead of sailing through on the performance of others, but overall it will be a more rewarding experience.Fexhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06686104124944234256noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-69881884952083947922009-09-10T13:22:47.308+02:002009-09-10T13:22:47.308+02:00I agree that emblems even out the RNG factor.
We ...I agree that emblems even out the RNG factor.<br /><br />We ran heroic UP for the tanking sword so many times, it was a joke. The boss only has 4 drops ffs, sword dropped after about 20 runs. We took an alt warrior thru, dropped 1st time, another alt got it on the 3rd run. RNG sucks....<br /><br />Where we DE'd the crossbow 12 times, some other poor sod probably DE'd the sword 12 times. :DAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1461700565722278823.post-87974947364351045372009-09-10T12:18:36.084+02:002009-09-10T12:18:36.084+02:00"One of my best memories of Wow was killing R...<i>"One of my best memories of Wow was killing Ragnaros and winning the Malistar's Shield Drop.</i>"<br /><br />Boss mobs will still drop desirable loot, making it possible to have that moment where the item you want finally drops, and where you are able to get it. Which means that you still face the possibility that you will kill that boss dozens of times and never win the item or even see it drop. It's wonderful when you finally get your hands on that elusive epic. It's aggravating in the extreme when you never do, especially if one or more other people in your group get it and you don't.<br /><br />Token-based reward systems reduce the chances that you'll be the victim of bad luck. As others said, the current system has a nice balance to it-- you can still get that exciting rare drop you always wanted, but in the meantime you're also farming up useful upgrades.Tonushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01082528970434639776noreply@blogger.com