Greedy Goblin

Tuesday, July 1, 2014

Renter statistics and losses

There are three large renter empires in New Eden: PBLRD of CFC, Northern Associates. of N3 and Brothers of Tangra of PL. They have similar renting rules, with the only exception that CFC doesn't allow supercapital building. However their situation is very different. First, let's look at a chart comparing their land and member count:
As you can see, PBLRD is not only the smallest, but also shows no sign of growing, while BoT and especially NA grows rapidly. It seems the CFC neither put in enough effort to capture lands, nor they succeeded in convincing people to rent from them. Hint: using every "fine print" to blow them up isn't the best way of getting more renters. More reasons can be seen on the two "quality of renter life" charts:
As you can see, renting from CFC gets you the most crowded and the most dangerous place, though BoT is filling up recently and NA reached it in losses in the last month. We'll see if these are outliers or a continuing trend. But currently we can say without doubt that if you are looking for nullsec to rent, you are better off avoiding PBLRD.

Update, anyonymous posted some really good info, so I copy it into the post: There are also other considerations to be taken into account, like 'ease of life'. It's not a 'hard' parameter that can be measured with statistics, but more of a 'soft' one, not so easily measured. In that regard, renting from B0T is the best choice. They are the most organized renter alliance and a they provide some services that other renter alliances don't. For example, they provide all system upgrades at NPC costs, they bring them and install them, even to backwaters like Cobalt Edge (which is arguably the ass-end of the universe). NA does it sometimes but they are not consistent and are less organized, so if you live in the backwaters, far away from lowsec you might have to wait a long long while or you might have to bring the upgrades yourself. In PBLRD on the other hand you have to do everything yourself, bring the upgrades to null however you can and only then they will install them for you. This is not an inconsequential thing because most lvl5 upgrades require a freighter to move and having to do it is a major PITA.

With regards to moon mining, B0T has the most liberal policy, with renters having exclusive rights to any moons in their rented systems except R64s, Tech and Hafnium. In NA and PBLRD R64s and R32s are off limits, as well as any lower tier moon that is already taken by N3 or CFC entities. So, with B0T you are fairly sure that you will get to exploit the moons in the system you rent, as long as they're not highends. In NA. and PBLRD it's always a gamble and if you're unlucky you might get a system where all valuable moons are already taken by the parent coalitions. And from my visits to NA and PBLRD space I can say that there are a lot of NC. and CFC moon mining towers on lower end moons.

B0T and NA allow cynojamming systems, while PBLRD does not. That's also an important 'ease of life' issue for some renters because it gives additional protection.

As far as supercapital production is concerned, B0T has a system of supercap building taxes. Those are 10 bil/titan job and 2 bil/supercarrier job. this tax functions as a deposit and if you sell the supercap to PL/N3 or some other ally you get 50% of the tax back. This way renters are incentivized to sell to PL blues but still not forbidden from selling them on the market. In NA supercaps that are built have to be offered first to N3 at discounted prices. If there is no takers in N3 then you can sell it on the open market. This system also tries to steer the supercap builder to sell to the parent coalition while allowing for the possibility of selling on the open market. However in my opinion it's not as sophisticated as the B0T system because it requires additional overhead work and it has dead times (like while you're waiting for N3 to tell you if they'll buy it or not). PBLRD does not allow supercap building at all, a vestige of Mittani's conclusions about the fall of the old NC, which he attributed partly to the fact that the old NC sold supers to members of the DRF (russians) which eventually overran the NC. Those conclusions might have been correct at the time of NC's fall because at that time the limiting factor was supercap production, which has always required a large amount of time and resources. However in the intervening years supercap production has churned out a lot of supercaps, so that today you can get one from the market with more ease then before. Furthermore, larger amounts of supercap builds are available from builders in large organized renter alliances. Today the limiting factor is ISK and experienced pilots. There are enough supercaps on the large and you can get them on the open market if you have enough ISK. Likewise, to successfully make use of the supers as a strategic weapon you need experienced pilots with lots of experience in capital warfare. This is a simpler problem to solve for outfits like PL or NC. who use capital fleet extensively.


PS: I rarely post non-CFC losses. But this guy was just asking for it with his purple vindicator and record-breaking jackpod. OK, a T1 indy with 12 PLEX-es also worth mentioning.

9 comments:

Anonymous said...

"But currently we can say without doubt that if you are looking for nullsec to rent, you are better off avoiding PBLRD. "

What are the average numbers per renter corp, and the utilities/system?
Without those, your graphs are meaningless. If NA has systems without much in them, whilst PBLRD has systems with attractive utilities, that would be why there are a whole 30 people per system (as before, please link your data sources), 30 people is a very small corp, so, that is less than 1 corp per system.

You can be in NA, and have only half the number of people around you for support, and still lose the same amount of isk/person

Ideally, you would show the active players/system, as, again, dividing the number of members by the number of systems is...yeah...not showing anything at all. (and yes, this information is available, just requires :effort: )

Anonymous said...

you can make statistics in such a way, you want have it to be. statistics are often misleading.

1) population density: this means nothing. It is not CFC fault if a renting corp with 100 member wants to rent only 1 system. It can also be that NA has hundreds of empty systems. this is a very speculative data, which says not much. crowding is not a fault of the sov holder.

actually your statistic says now, that cfc is doing good keeping all system busy and not empty. nothing more. the crowding problem is a problem and choice of every own renting corp.

2) losses: here must be highsec losses excluded. It will not affect renters in their space. all nullsec habitants know, that highsec is not the place to be, due to wars (yes highsec wars were already existing before you ;-)). it is only interesting which losses they suffer in their renting space. thats the danger. also if you will be other opinion. but stupid highsec ganks are no danger. if you are living in nullsec. ofc you will kill some stupids. but they wont leave, because also BoT and NA have same problems in highsec.


Ryanis said...

Average security status of systems may be a good stat too.
Btw, is any renter alliance providing bridge access ? (even if I'm quite sure of the answer)

Anonymous said...

how did you get the numbers for the graphs?
is there a API somewhere?

Gevlon said...

Data is from Dotlan, as linked at the top

Anonymous said...

Part 1

There are also other considerations to be taken into account, like 'ease of life'. It's not a 'hard' parameter that can be measured with statistics, but more of a 'soft' one, not so easily measured. In that regard, renting from B0T is the best choice. They are the most organized renter alliance and a they provide some services that other renter alliances don't. For example, they provide all system upgrades at NPC costs, they bring them and install them, even to backwaters like Cobalt Edge (which is arguably the ass-end of the universe). NA does it sometimes but they are not consistent and are less organized, so if you live in the backwaters, far away from lowsec you might have to wait a long long while or you might have to bring the upgrades yourself. In PBLRD on the other hand you have to do everything yourself, bring the upgrades to null however you can and only then they will install them for you. This is not an inconsequential thing because most lvl5 upgrades require a freighter to move and having to do it is a major PITA.

With regards to moon mining, B0T has the most liberal policy, with renters having exclusive rights to any moons in their rented systems except R64s, Tech and Hafnium. In NA and PBLRD R64s and R32s are off limits, as well as any lower tier moon that is already taken by N3 or CFC entities. So, with B0T you are fairly sure that you will get to exploit the moons in the system you rent, as long as they're not highends. In NA. and PBLRD it's always a gamble and if you're unlucky you might get a system where all valuable moons are already taken by the parent coalitions. And from my visits to NA and PBLRD space I can say that there are a lot of NC. and CFC moon mining towers on lower end moons.

B0T and NA allow cynojamming systems, while PBLRD does not. That's also an important 'ease of life' issue for some renters because it gives additional protection.

As far as supercapital production is concerned, B0T has a system of supercap building taxes. Those are 10 bil/titan job and 2 bil/supercarrier job. this tax functions as a deposit and if you sell the supercap to PL/N3 or some other ally you get 50% of the tax back. This way renters are incentivized to sell to PL blues but still not forbidden from selling them on the market. In NA supercaps that are built have to be offered first to N3 at discounted prices. If there is no takers in N3 then you can sell it on the open market. This system also tries to steer the supercap builder to sell to the parent coalition while allowing for the possibility of selling on the open market. However in my opinion it's not as sophisticated as the B0T system because it requires additional overhead work and it has dead times (like while you're waiting for N3 to tell you if they'll buy it or not). PBLRD does not allow supercap building at all, a vestige of Mittani's conclusions about the fall of the old NC, which he attributed partly to the fact that the old NC sold supers to members of the DRF (russians) which eventually overran the NC. Those conclusions might have been correct at the time of NC's fall because at that time the limiting factor was supercap production, which has always required a large amount of time and resources. However in the intervening years supercap production has churned out a lot of supercaps, so that today you can get one from the market with more ease then before. Furthermore, larger amounts of supercap builds are available from builders in large organized renter alliances. Today the limiting factor is ISK and experienced pilots. There are enough supercaps on the large and you can get them on the open market if you have enough ISK. Likewise, to successfully make use of the supers as a strategic weapon you need experienced pilots with lots of experience in capital warfare. This is a simpler problem to solve for outfits like PL or NC. who use capital fleet extensively.

Continues in part 2...

Anonymous said...

Part 2

In conclusion, I would say that for someone that wants to rent the order of choice is, from better to worse, B0T > NA > PBLRD. B0T is the best organized of the lot and gives the best services for a renter. Life is definitely easier as a BOT renter as far as ease of life is concerned. NA is somewhere in the middle. They are trying to offer some of the services that B0T is offering but there seems to be less organization in their efforts and more improvisation. PBLRD definitely offers the least amount of services and life in PBLRD space is more difficult from the logistical standpoint. All of this seems to have been reflected in the renter population of the 3 big renter empires. B0T has increased their renter population significantly in the last few months, despite no increase in territory. NA has increased their renter population dramatically in the last few months but this increase correlates very well to the increase of renter space conquered with the end of the Halloween War. The majority of this increase can be attributed to them taking over the renters from the space they've conquered, since renters don't care who they pay the rent to. PBLRD have increased their renter numbers during the first stage of the Halloween War when PL/N3 were on the defense and eventually lost some of their space (well N3 lost space). However as the tides turned and as CFC restrictions on renters became more widely known, there has been a slow exodus from PBLRD space. B0T came out ahead of all of this turmoil and I guess it can be considered as the most successful renter program at the moment.


PS. A word about losses: I am not surprised that B0T has the lowest amount of losses. They are positioned in the most isolated part of nullsec. There are not a lot of lowsec or NPC nullsec regions close by that would be home to small corporations or alliances that could harass them for a living. In that regard PBLRD is definitely in a worse situation, with space surrounded by lowsec and NPC null.

Gevlon said...

@Anonymous: your comment was so informative that I've copied into the post.

Anonymous said...

@ ryanis:

afaik officially renters are not allowed to use them (jump bridges), but they are there and fueled ... :)